AIBU re babysitting

[NannyProblems101]

Hi
I'd really like some perspective on this as I genuinely want to be fair and reasonable.

I've had a nanny for 16mths (3DC aged 4-10). Her contract states that she works 12 hours per day, 5 days per week + one night per week baby sitting.

To date she has babysat approximately once every fortnight - usually to about 9pm. She has ocassionaly (perhaps less than 5 times baby sat until late).

I asked her to babysit next week until 11 and she has said she does not want to do it. In fact she does not want to babysit until late on any day where she has had the children at home all day (so no school holidays at all).

I get that it is a long day - although she only has youngest DC at the moment as older two are away, but I feel it is what she is paid for.

I spoke to her last night and she quoted employment law at me. I dont know where to go. I feel she gets flexibility and is paid well (she got a 10% raise and one months bonus last month) but theer seems to be no understanding that some days are better than others.

Whilst I agree it's in the contract, I think working 12 hours then having to babysit is an incredibly long day... Has she opted out of the working time directive?

Is she live in or out?

I agree with your nanny, it's an incredibly long day with no 'switch off' time whatsoever.

And presuming it's live out and 7-7, that only gives her 8 hrs to get home, sleep, and get ready and travel back to work again. Asking too much if you ask me...you pay her salary but not everything is about the money.

It's a job where flexibility is required both ways. Is a late start or early finish the following day an option?

What did she say when you added the babysitting clause to her contract? Did she raise any concerns then?

I agree a later start the next morning would be a good compromise.

I would expect the babysitting to form part of the 12 hours working day and not in addition to the standard working day.

In the public sector workers are not permitted to have less than 11 hours between the end and start of their days. Is your Nanny referring to this when you say employment law? More than anything it's to ensure everyone's safety. If your Nanny is struggling working all those hours then it's right that she say she can't do it.

I wouldn't expect a Nanny who had worked 12 hours plus 3/4 hours on top babysitting to be at her best the following day. That would put my children at risk and completely avoidable if you use another person to sit for your children.

As a nanny I would only be happy to do this after a day at work if I was off the next day so on my last working day of the week or if I was able to stay over so could go to bed while the parents were still out (keeping an ear out for the children )

Even an extra couple of hours after a long full on day followed by another long full on day would be too much, the nanny needs her rest and down time. Can you find someone else to babysit that the nanny can hand over to at normal finish time so you don't have to come home to do that.

Sixty hours per week and then babysitting on top is an incredibly long working week, no matter how well you are paid for it. Does the working time directive thing apply to her and has she opted out of it? Is she live-in? This is the only way I could see she could get enough sleep before having to get up for work again the next day.

Are you sure what is in her contract is, in fact, legal? With that number of hours she'd have to have opted out of the Working Time Directive. If not, that's probably what she means. She more than goes over it without the extra babysitting.

I agree that even if she did sign the contract, expecting her to work 7am - 7pm, then from presumably 8pm - 11pm, then go home and be back again by 7am really is too much. A late start the next day is a compromise, but honestly if I was working the nanny that long I wouldn't be expecting any extra babysitting from her, unless she expressly offered for extra cash.

If she's good in any other way, let her off. It sounds like you are souring the relationship by pushing it.

Good in every other way

12 hours a day 5 days a week and a night's babysitting is a long week. I agree with the others about her being able to switch off and get sleep before the next shift.

So she works a 60hr week and your offended that she maybe wants the little evenings she has to her self and not babysit during the week. I do a 50hour week barely do any week day babysits for my bosses and if I do I've said I won't work any later then 10.30. By the time I get home and settle down could be more nearer to 12 then still have to get up at 6.45 the next day. No thanks

So she is only looking after a four year old at the moment? I don't see the problem with a bit of ad hoc babysitting then - four year old in bed by 7, she will pretty much have the evening to herself. But I think I would offer a late start the next day, if possible.

I think Rose's view of public sector workers' terms and conditions are a little rose tinted.

The problem with saying she still has the night to herself is as a nanny when you are with a charge and working you feel under pressure to keep busy during the time you are being paid. The child is still under her care so she will need to be alert. I am currently doing a 24/7 temp job and i have to constantly have one ear open and i wake myself a lot in the night to check the children are ok. to expect her to do those hours i think is unreasonable. You seem a little bit too wrapped u in what you think she is doing wrong and not the fact that she needs to be well rested in order to give the best care possible to your child.

I disagree with all the other posters

It's a one off babysit. You aren't asking Her to do this every week / so not sure why she is complaining - esp as contract says one bs a week - which personally I wouldn't have in if working 60hrs but that's another matter :)

Does the contract say how long bs is - friend has in hers now later then 10.30 if working next day

I've done 12/5 and the odd late finish /bs so there till midnight and back again at 7

Yes it is tiring but it's once. 4yr should be in bed asleep at 7 and then she can slump on sofa and chill

Is she live in as live out nannies rarely have bs once a week in contract

Can she stay the night so can go to bed if need be and then get up at 6.55 as I've also done that with perm jobs

Does she live far away?

A one month bonus is very generous !!!!

Assume your nanny during term time barely has any children - eldest at school and 4yr probably at nursery 5 mornings and possibly 1/2 full days and will start full time school next month

When she does bs do you literally go out for a meal with partner / friend or use it to work. Why do you need 11 instead of 9

Personally I would tell her to stop moaning and do it - tho of course this may ruin the harmony of a good working relationship but as I originally said its a one off

Be different if was going to happen every week

Personally I would not agree to a contract which has one evening babysitting in it, without that being clearly defined as it could occur any day and for any time period.

I will babysit on a work day, I will babysit at the weekend but it is my decision to agree to do it, not a contractual obligation.

I can see that after a12 hour day, they may not want to do another 3-5 hours on top.

How are you going to resolve this? If you are not having them babysit every week as per the contract, then is that needed in the contract? Would it be better to have it as occasional overtime, or swapping hours? Would finding someone else to do occasional babysitting be better, so you have a backup for if your nanny does not/is not able to do it?

To answer some questions. We are not in the UK however I had the contract checked by both a reputable agency and a lawyer who told me it was standard (and legal).

I also benchmarked against UK practices as I was originally looking at bringing someone out through a UK agency and was again told 12 hours plus one night a week babysitting was standard.

MrsS - yes just the four year old at the moment.

She is live out, but I offered her the opportunity to stay over if she preferred so that she didnt have to stay awake or drive home - but that was a worse option.

The babysitting clause was not raised as an issue when she signed the contract.

nannyuk Im not sure that I am wrapped up in what she does wrong - I feel really upset that after the first time in 16 months of asking her to babysit late following a full day she starts talking about the law - i just didn't think we had that sort of working relationship and I suppose I was shocked.

I accept entirely that it leaves her without down time but equally she is not run ragged every second of the day - I arrived home yesterday and she was sat on the sofa and my DD was watching a movie at my neighbours.

cindy to clarify we don't just say you have to babysit wednesday, for example. We ask if it's possible and if it's not then we suggest another day - I do accept that she has a life outside of work.

Blondes yes during term time she has no DC for 5.5 hours (unless they are sick) she does grocery shopping one day (although often with the youngest who finishes earlier) but otherwise she has the time pretty much to herself.

Honestly I do not know how I will resolve it - I am certainly not going to demand that she works so I guess that will be that. But I'm sad that it has impacted on our working relationship.

Whether it's legal in the country you're in or not, I'm a bit shocked that you'd be asking her to work such a long day, especially as she wouldn't have much opportunity to rest before coming in to work the next day.

I don't think it matters if she is spending the time watching movies or whatever, it's still not the same as having the time free. She is still in charge and working, not able to completely relax or spend the time how she chooses (I'm sure she'd rather be spending it with her own friends and family). I can't see how anyone could possibly have a good work life balance working the hours you're asking.

Looking after one four year old is hardly onerous, and this is a one off, so I don't think it's remotely unreasonable. You sound like a pretty thoughtful employer to me, and generous. Unfortunately where most people will realise this and reciprocate, there will always be one who kicks off or pushes for more. And I think nanny employers always get a rough ride on here. (I sacked a pregnant nanny, years ago, for cruelty to my children and got an absolute pasting on here for daring to sack a pregnant woman - what she had done was just swept under the table by most people.)

I might remind her of the obligations of her contract, but maybe on this occasion get someone else in to babysit.

Not sure where you are but is there any local schools nurseries nanny network where you could find someone to be your back up babysitter. That's what my bosses have done as I've refused late weekday babysittings. As they understand that after a long day I want my evenings and don't want to be going into work on 6hrs worth of sleep because of overtime.

When is she supposed to eat and sleep if you want her to work til 11pm and then be back at 7am the next day? Surely that can't be legal where you are.

If it's in the contract she signed then she should do it. That said I'm a bit taken aback by a 60 hour week plus one evening of babysitting.

Could you vary her hours on that day to say a midday start as a compromise?

12 hours a day? 5 days a week? Plus an extra 5 hours a week on top. 65 hours total in a week. How would you feel if your employer changed your contract to that? Regardless of how well you pay her, it's coming across as though you're not respecting the fact that she may actually have a life outside of looking after your children.