AIBU re babysitting

[NannyProblems101]

Hi
I'd really like some perspective on this as I genuinely want to be fair and reasonable.

I've had a nanny for 16mths (3DC aged 4-10). Her contract states that she works 12 hours per day, 5 days per week + one night per week baby sitting.

To date she has babysat approximately once every fortnight - usually to about 9pm. She has ocassionaly (perhaps less than 5 times baby sat until late).

I asked her to babysit next week until 11 and she has said she does not want to do it. In fact she does not want to babysit until late on any day where she has had the children at home all day (so no school holidays at all).

I get that it is a long day - although she only has youngest DC at the moment as older two are away, but I feel it is what she is paid for.

I spoke to her last night and she quoted employment law at me. I dont know where to go. I feel she gets flexibility and is paid well (she got a 10% raise and one months bonus last month) but theer seems to be no understanding that some days are better than others.

If the nanny uses the other car it shouldn't matter if the third one is got rid of.

I agree that bringing up employment law as a first step was a bit OTT. It doesn't sound like she handled it well. I don't think the OP has handled it perfectly either.

But I don't think it is in any way unreasonable to find that something you agreed to initially doesn't work in practise and to bring that up with your employer.

I think sometimes people are anxious about bringing up issues at work and so they overcompensate and make a bigger deal of it than necessary. That's what this sounds like to me. She could have just said 'I find it an unworkably long day when I don't leave until 11pm/12am and then have to be back by 7am. By the time I get home to bed and then get up in time to commute in, I'm only getting 5 hours sleep'. I don't think anyone would find that ragingly unreasonable would they? I think it's just been badly expressed, rather than she is looking for excuses to leave/taking the piss/lazy/ungrateful/too used to the perks etc.

findtheold it makes a difference if we get rid of the third card because we wouldn't allow her to use the family car to travel too and from work and on the weekends (as we need it).

outraged I see what you're saying about the car having been best raised at a separate occasion but I really didn't respond "well I'll take away the car" I used it as a way of rebutting her argument that her package is crap and I don't treat her fairly. I was upset.

prize I'm considering offering afternoons only as it was her who raised the fact her hours are too long - although I have a feeling she will say she's happy to work the longer hours but only if she's paid more. I realise she'd be able to take a part time job and wouldn't be available but I could cover that.

I think we actually pay quite a premium to have someone all day - I reckon there have been max 8 sick days in 16 mths and in vacations she's been required to work 60 hours for I think total 7 weeks. So 90% of time she works a 30 hour week (although totally accept she is on call)

Anyway thanks for all your feedback - it's a helpful benchmark as DHs response was tell her not to bother coming back.

It sounds as if you are hurt by her letter, and I don't blame you. The fact that she quoted employment law at you suggests she was already thinking about it.

I think you need to sit her down sensibly and say "these are the hours and wage we agreed upon, and of course you have had X bonus and your car is a benefit that costs X per year. I can see from your letter that perhaps the hours are too much, and you feel you are not paid enough, what can we do to reaolve this? Would you prefer to reduce your hours, cut out the babysitting or perhaps we can come to an agreement where we get rid of the car and increase your salary?" Give her options, ask her to be honest with you, and resolve the issue if you think she is a good employee other than this.

It sounds like she has some built up resentment. I'm a nanny, and working 60 hours a week is bloody hard work, but if that's what she signed up for, that's what she signed up for. However, it doesn't stop you getting stressed over summer when you're up to your eyes in it!

Wow... Long read.. For what it's worth.. If I was paying a large chunk for a trained nanny or ap to look after my kids I too would expect flexibility and long hours. I'm guessing similarly to our childcare needs its a lot of easy fun childcare.. Not scrubbing cleaning caring for babies.
Depending where you are will also come into cultural norm. We are In Aus. We use ap's and have an awesome relationship with all of them. No they don't do 60 hr weeks but do work 3 12 hr days fairly often. They have looked after my babies. It's worked well for both sides of the deal.
People will always condemn what you do. I'm quite used to being shot down in flames here for not fitting what the UK sees as an appropriate ap arrangement. I'm not sure there's any such thing as a normal ap or nanny agreement. It's individual. Based on what you need and what the other party is happy with.
So don't be too hard on yourself.

Re the school holidays, I found my au pairs and nannies split into two separate camps, those who relished the holidays and doing something with the children, would plan out what they were doing and when, and those who couldn't be arsed and would plonk them in front of daytime TV, despite living ten minutes walk from a splendid park, near open fields where you could go blackberrying and having a big garden with a large paddling pool, swings and a slide.

Op I'm unclear on where exactly you are but in your shoes I would be making sure I understood the employment law position around hours and termination of employment so you know what your options are here if it comes to it.

I hope you resolve your dilemma.

I think £29 k gross is quite a low salary for 60 hours a week. It certainly is in UK. I guess cost of living must be lower where you are located.

If you decide not to give nanny the perk of a 'company' car, how will it affect applicants, should you decide to part ways with your current nanny?

When you agreed on the contract was there an agreement on how long the babysitting was for? My guess is is she is annoyed that if she works until 11pm she gets paid the same as she would if she worked until 9pm.

I think she is being unreasonable. It is rare to get a job paying full rate once all the kids are at school. So imo she should suck up the long hours in the holidays as the shorted hours in term time compensate for it.

I work 53hrs a wk but I work every hour. I look after 3 children 4 and under. I wouldn't agree to putting an evenings babysit in the contract in my situation but I would in your nannys

It's £29k nett not gross so not a bad wage considering half the hours the nanny doesn't actually have any children

I still think she is making a fuss over nothing. It was one night you asked her / not every week - plus you offered for her to stay over so not if would have got home late and less sleep

And even more so the fact she doesn't bs every week for you

A car full time is an amazing perk and a huge tax benefit for yourselves and tbh a great package - see how she would like the running costs of a car

Not sure how your chat will go - if I was a mb and my nanny quoted employment law at me over asking her to work 2hrs extra one week I would consider finding a new nanny

"My guess is is she is annoyed that if she works until 11pm she gets paid the same as she would if she worked until 9pm".

JD I didn't specify a time to finish - in my mind an evening babysitting is always til 10/11 pm to allow for dinner out, but lesson learned.

Thermomix - that equates to approximately 38k salary for what is 90% of the time one hour on, five hours "on call" - but at home/gym/studying - five hours on. I'd be genuinely interested to know what you think would be a fair salary as I dont want to treat her poorly and there is very little benchmarking that could be done locally. When I was in London that would have been at the lower end of a good salary.

I'll update for those who are interested later.

Good luck!

It seems a low salary to pay someone who is with your children for most of their waking hours. For working parents who need long-hours childcare, I feel that it is especially important to look after your nanny and treat them like family. That way, the nanny is likely to provide continuous and stable care for the children, and also be happier and thus be a better childcarer. When do you expect your nanny to sleep if they are doing a late babysit and then starting early in the morning? I'm not a nanny but, if I was, I would resent any boss who didn't care about the fact that I couldn't have a good nights rest. If you need to be out late, then you should give her a later start in the morning. Or pay her extra for babysitting? That still doesn't solve the problem of her lack of sleep though. If you work someone into the ground, there won't be much left of their energy for your children.

It's £36.5k gross - £11+ gross an hour - just under £9 nett - well over nmw and keep saying not all jobs are £10nett. Esp 60hr ones

Op the salary is fine - esp as no children term time 9-3

My apologies NannyProblems101.
I thought it was £29k gross.

As you say £38k gross is very good considering free time to go to gym etc.

Wish I got free time!!!! Get little more than you pay but then I don't have benefit of 'company' car. So I agree you do pay well, even without the car.

I work 60-70 hours a week for 30k gross. No car. No time for gym. Or studying.

I think she is being unreasonable and pretty disloyal considering how she has approached this.

Have you spoken to her yet OP?

Let me clarify my post. worked
Not worked for 3 years now :(

Ok so looking at both sides here and reading everyone's comments:
I'm a nanny but I'm also a parent and have used nannies before and I don't think YABU because your nanny signed a contract which includes one night a week babysitting and regardless of how many hours your nanny works - she still signed this and should abide by it. At the same time it sounds like she has got comfortable in that you don't really ask her to babysit very often and so sees this as a boring chore and tbh I can sympathise with her because I would never sign a contract to work full time and include a weekly babysit. I do babysitting but I like the flexibility of being able to say yes or no.

I also think your nanny might be feeling a little fed up of things and you both probably need to sit down and have a good chat! Sometimes it's quite hard being totally honest with an employer who thinks all involved are completely happy with the situation. You say she was a bit peeved that you forgot to pay her back for a bill or paid it late but there could be more things that are irritating her that she's not mentioned to you and now the babysitting is just adding to it!
Sounds like a rather lovely nanny package though but pls do speak with her and I hope you are able to resolve this

It's very simple to sort it out. Why don't you get another nanny/nannies to do a baby sittings for you? I was a Nanny and worked really long hours, I came to an agreement with my boss that I will find few Nannies to cover my baby sittings, so I can go home and fully rest before i start work the next day happy and with lots of energy to provide the best childcare. Seemed to work for everyone:-)

But Maggie then OP would have to pay extra for something that is in the nanny's contract to provide.

Or did you pay for your friends babysitting hours out of your own wages?

I know, they would have to pay extra. The Nanny works long hours, in top of that, has to do included babysitting?? is she live in?? because for live out that is not normal arrangement. I think the parents should put themselves in the nanny shoes. On the end of the day the nanny looks after their most precious ones and she needs to have energy to do a great job. It will only work if they communicate. If to be honest if the family can afford a nanny for 60 hours a week they surely can pay for 5 more extra hours. It is up to them to work it out. ..there is always two sides to a story. They having a contract ok, but we are all humans, they can seat and discuss, maybe they need to change some parts in the contract so both will be happy. I had that too. My boss always said: Maggie every employment is easy on the beginning and later you will need to work on it. We would seat and talk about thinks:-) and 8 years later we are still friends!!

But she very rarely works a 60hour week is the point. She would do it maybe 7 times a year. The majority of the weeks she only does 30 hours. Pretty cushy for the nanny, really.

So very occasionally, every other month, the nanny will have to do a long day/week. It was in her contract, she agreed to it, but now she's saying that it's unreasonable because she wants the cushty arrangements she has 90% of the time to be the norm.

Sounds very one-sided, with no flexibility which was the reason they hired her.

That explains a lot.