AIBU re babysitting

[NannyProblems101]

Hi
I'd really like some perspective on this as I genuinely want to be fair and reasonable.

I've had a nanny for 16mths (3DC aged 4-10). Her contract states that she works 12 hours per day, 5 days per week + one night per week baby sitting.

To date she has babysat approximately once every fortnight - usually to about 9pm. She has ocassionaly (perhaps less than 5 times baby sat until late).

I asked her to babysit next week until 11 and she has said she does not want to do it. In fact she does not want to babysit until late on any day where she has had the children at home all day (so no school holidays at all).

I get that it is a long day - although she only has youngest DC at the moment as older two are away, but I feel it is what she is paid for.

I spoke to her last night and she quoted employment law at me. I dont know where to go. I feel she gets flexibility and is paid well (she got a 10% raise and one months bonus last month) but theer seems to be no understanding that some days are better than others.

I'm a Mum Boss too, and you're not being unreasonable! It may not be Mum Bosses who think you're unreasonable, but those who have never employed nannies and have no idea of the T & C and relationship. 12 years on, I am still in touch with my first nanny, and my second nanny and two au pairs. As Find says, it is definitely a give and take relationship. My last au pair would always go the extra mile for us, way above and beyond what was expected. She was utterly fabulous in every way, and as a thank you, before we moved on, I paid for her to go and visit her sister in Vancouver for a month. We're both in the same country now, and she's coming to dinner in a few weeks.

The only nanny I'm not in touch with is the one I sacked, and whose husband decided to come round and threaten our new nanny (not surprisingly).

Out nanny does this all the time for us. Long hours are part of the job and she is well paid for it. It is occasional, however, and not part of her contract.

I'd recommend renegotiating the contract with her as she is currently refusing to honour it. Fine if she doesn't want to baby sit but then amend the contract to take it out of her hours and adjust hours accordingly.

Then get an agency sitter or someone else to sit when you need.

I'm not a nanny and i didn't state I was either.

Waves back to eurycantha

You could renegotiate contract but tbh I don't see the point

Sprouting the law at you seems petty - it's rare but happens tho generally nannies don't do a 40hr week unless work 3 days :)

You're not being unreasonable at all.

Having someone who can stay later on occasion and babysit is part of the attraction of having a nanny. Plus it's in her contract! I think it probably is time to move on.

Based on your further posts, I don't think the 'hours' are unreasonably long, taking into account the child-free time she normally has, and the flexibility to pop home etc. I had assumed she was doing most of the house keeping during that time (which would be the norm I recognise) but it sounds like she isn't doing that while kids are at school/pre-school?

It may be that she thought she wouldn't mind the lack of autonomy such long hours 'on duty' would bring (she might not always be 'working' during the hours, but the time obviously isn't her own), but she's finding it suffocating. She might also just be trying it on! However, I wonder if the change of attitude is due to incidents in your relationship, like the forgotten bill, which may have had more impact than you realised?

It sounds like a parting of ways is inevitable. Although I'd probably respond by telling her - neutrally - that I can take the babysitting out of the contract and adjust the salary accordingly as she's clearly changed her mind, and see if that made her think twice about things.

If you do renegotiate contract is it possible to just pay the hours she works, so if she only works 28 hrs during the school terms then that's what she's paid for + any babysitting hours. Because reading what you have written she been getting paid 32 hours at least for not doing her job.

Clutterbugmum - in fairness if you sometimes need people to work a 60hr week then that's what you need to pay them for. If sometimes you only need them to do 28jrs then that's not the nanny's problem.

The nanny can't budget if she sometimes only gets paid for half her contractual hours.

Different matter if she is then reluctant to work her contractual hours which seems the case here.

Ive responded to her complaints by email but saying I really want to talk, and essentially saying she does not need to babysit and apologising for my oversight. In my mind there are now two options:

1. She continues with hours as before knowing that term time is far more favorable (for her) than hols.

2.we ask her to do afternoons only, so 1:30 - 6:30 only but with a reduction in salary. Although no idea how we work new salary- any thoughts?

I've also suggested that we get rid of "her" car - it costs us a fortune to run and she uses the family car for transporting the DC. And tbh I'm not feeling the love re flexibility.

Not heard back from her yet

The ball is in her court then. Sit back and wait. I think you've been very generous so far. Let's see if she has a rethink.

a personal use nanny car is highly taxed, or least in uk it is if done legally

yes you could reduce her hours, she may say no and she is redundant but as there under 2yrs wont get anything

what happens if kids are ill/baker days

if you are happy to pay a nanny to be on call then carry on doing it, but with a new nanny

blondes here there is no tax issue with the car - it's definitely a benefit to her.

Both DH and I have sufficient flexibility to manage occasional sickness, plus we (usually) have a good babysitter on hand - it just takes a bit more juggling which I've been keen to avoid for peace of mind.

Holidays aren't really an issue as we're usually away.

On balance I'd probably prefer someone FT and on call but the alternative is manageable.

Not heard anything from her so have spent day on phone to agencies

I don't think either of you are being fundamentally unreasonable, but neither have you have dealt with this disagreement in the best way imo.

You are perfectly entitled to ask for this babysit as it is in the contract. Many nannies work very long hours, it's not an unreasonable request.

However, she is not bound to either follow her contract without question or resign her position. The 'it's in the contract' argument from some here is stupid. Sometimes you agree to terms, which you then find unworkable in practise. You are within your rights to approach your employer and ask for terms to be altered. Your employer is, of course, free to say 'no'.

As I understand it, she is happy to babysit weekly. She is happy to do an 'early finish' babysit year round, but would like 'late finish' babysits limited to term-time only? I'm failing to see why this is massively unreasonable. I'm also failing to understand why you only have two options, carry on as before or she only works afterschool?! Surely, just altering the babysitting agreement is an option? Get a couple of babysitters on the books and call one of them for the very occasional late-finish, school holiday babysit.

She did not deal with this well, but neither have you. You're making a massive issue out of what is really a small and very reasonable request.

People are questioning why this nanny is not willing to go over and above for you. If you respond to all her small and reasonable requests like this, I can understand why.

ditch her. £29k plus benefits is a great salary. it sounds as if she is annoyed at the situation. if she is that fed up then she will carry on moaning.
there will be plenty of other nannies who would work for that money

outraged I'm not sure how I've dealt with this badly? I listened to her complaints and vented on MN, then agreed (in my head) no babysitting and no reduction in salary. Before I had a chance to speak with her I received her letter which basically (and I paraphrase massively) "I work way too hard and you don't pay me enough".

The two choices stem from that a £29k net salary is not an insignificant amount - it costs me considerably more and at some point it becomes a zero sum game.

Also apologies to all those BMs and nannies who didn't conform to my stereotype

I was generisibg massively

'outraged I'm not sure how I've dealt with this badly?'

Well this for a start;

'I've also suggested that we get rid of "her" car - it costs us a fortune to run and she uses the family car for transporting the DC. And tbh I'm not feeling the love re flexibility.'

If you feel she is overpaid/has too many benefits or you are no longer financially able to provide those benefits, then of course you should talk to her about it. But raising it at the same time, and in the same email as addressing her issue re. babysitting makes it seem punitive and tit-for-tat.

In all honesty, if she hadn't raised the issue re. babysitting would you have suggested getting rid of her car? Or is it (be really honest with yourself) a punitive/tit for tat move?

She has not dealt with it in the best manner, but neither have you.

The nanny says she doesn't want to do some of her contracted duties, the employer can therefore either withdraw some of the benefits she has agreed to provide, drop the salary or dismiss the nanny.

I don't see any of that as punitive.

'The nanny says she doesn't want to do some of her contracted duties'

She said she'd like school-holiday time babysits to finish early. So we're talking the difference between maybe 9pm and 11pm/12am what ever the contract states. So approximately 3 hours. Once a week, throughout the school holidays, say 13x3= 39 hours a year. (I'm basing it on English holiday because I don't know where the OP is, but you get the point). Although the OP says that they very rarely use this, so in reality we're probably talking 10 hours a year.

'I don't see any of that as punitive'

The OP's response to that is to take away, something she describes as a big benefit (cars are expensive where they are). You don't see that in anyway punitive?

39 hours a year (only a few of which are actually used) = the huge benefit of car? Really?

It doesn't scream 'wonderfully reasonable employer' to me, but maybe I've been lucky!

I think you have handled this really well and I completely agree that she has become too used to "the upsides" and that she now does consider than the norm.

Truly, I'd hire someone else, there'll be plenty of people who would be thrilled and grateful for that job.

outraged

We've been thinking of getting rid of the car for a while - financially and practically it makes no sense for us to run a third car and it was never in our agreement that we would provide her with a car for personal use.

We (well I - DH has been telling me I'm a soft touch over this for months) have been reluctant because I'm sure it is convenient and a cost saving for her to use our car. However I'll hold my hands up to her inflexibility making me question my approach and there is part of me that is thinking fuck it!

Anyway she's agreed to come and discuss face to face so I'll see what she says.

The employment law comment from your nanny would be the crunch for me. She's clearly looked into this, so not something she has decided she no longer wanted to do in the past day or so. She DID sign and agree to the contract that was put to her. She should have investigated the terms before agreeing if she was unsure of anything. This sounds to me like she has been out for a drink or whatever, had a chat to her friends, they've said what they get in their own jobs and she's miffed. I've heard the gripes, I a a nanny myself, we can all have a moan, but, ultimately if she thinks she's hard done by, she should look for another job. In the meantime tho, she should go with her terms of contract. I don't think you are asking too much.

As for the comments about not paying her while children are at school/nursery, she may well not agree, but, if she did, then she is perfectly entitled to get a part time job in between those hours and therefor if one of your children were off sick, or if the school called you in the middle of the day to pick up a poorly child, you might find she's not available to help out.

Thank god my posts have been hassle free over the years

'but, ultimately if she thinks she's hard done by, she should look for another job'

That's ridiculous! Imagine how unsettling it would be for children if every time their nanny had a minor gripe (and that is what this is) they left for a new job?! If you have a small problem in a job you are happy with, the mature and professional thing to do is to raise it with your employer.

In this case, the nanny didn't deal with it in the best way, but the first step is always raise it with your employer, not look for another job!

OP It's completely fair enough to want to get rid of the car, but it would have been better to deal with it separately rather than at the same and even in the same email as her babysitting issue. You can surely see how it would read to her? She doesn't know you've been thinking about it for a while, she raises an issue and gets an email back saying 'how about we take away you car?'. It wasn't the best way to deal with it imo.

outraged I only said that because it sounds to me that's where the nanny is headed. Talking employment laws is not a good way to deal with minor gripes either. Sounds to me it's gone beyond being slightly miffed and perhaps the babysit is an excuse. Only the OP will know if there are any other things that may be going on.