A concerned parent has just come to our door...

[thesoo]

..to tell us that his wife has concerns about the way our childminder is caring for our son.
We have been using this childminder for about 9 months and she takes ds and dd to a childminding group. The husband of (presumably) another childminder came to our door an hour ago, spoke to my husband, and said that his wife wanted us to know that this childminder regularly leaves ds outside in all weathers, sometimes crying for all or part of this time, and has no way of knowing he is safe beacuse he cant be seen from inside. As if this is not distressing enough, she has also been seen shouting at him while he is outside in the buggy, wagging her finger and saying ' it is your fault, if you were not crying you could come in to play'. My son is 18 months old ffs. In tears as I write this.
I would never of suspected this of the cm as she seems quite caring and gentle. She has told me that she does sometimes let him sleep in the buggy if he is not in the mood to play, but would never have suspected this.
I am not sure what to do next. Obviously will speak to the cm and tell her what I have been told, but I can imagine that she will deny it. This husband said his wife did not want to identify herself. I feel that I need some other corroboration. The husband also said that other childminders in the group were a bit scared to approach her as she can be quite touchy.
I was not around when this guy came to the door so not sure what to do. Should I try to contact one of the other minders for their opinion? Don't want to arouse suspicions if it is not true or an exaggeration?
Kids are due to go to the cm tomorrow, don't want to send them, thats for sure, just not sure what to do next...help

But Maryz, it was the parents of the other chid that witnessed it/comforted the child, not their CM.

how horrid for you OP

a couple of things are not sitting well-

18m old son, is he happy to go, is he articulate enough that he could tell you what is going on even in a limited way?

if I witnessed something like this, I would be on the phone to the police/ss straight away no messing about. especially if i was a CM!

either way the trust has been eroded now, time to look for a new child care solution

yes agree with that post above re the trust but remember this is the cms business on the line.

its true that the trust seems to have been at best shaken but ' looking for a new child care solution' and all the attendant gossip and bad publicity for that cm(who may be entirely innocent of all this) is the end of her business and potentially her livlihood/house.

i pay our mortgage from childminding, I dont do it for pin money, or because I have littlies at home so its an easy option..

does any one on this thread expect to loose their job on gossip and hearsay???
especially those of you in the public sector, i suspect not and would expect most would go to a tribuneral for unfair dismissal.

the truth should be sort by Ofsted to either condemn or exhonerate this cm. anything less would be very unfair and she could of cause, if innocent, sue for slander, I would..

any more news on this OP?

Agree with you TheBody, I have read this thread with interest and dread. So many have advised the OP to find new childcare, it really is awful that so many judge her guilty before proved innocent.

I have particularly malicious neighbours who have caused problems for many people in my village, I know they dislike children (tried to stop our village having a playground as said it would cause "havoc", we live in a village with 100 houses and no other facilities) and have regularly complained that people dropping off and picking up children block their drive (which is honest nonsense), I have a baby with a really piercing scream that has taken time to settle. To help her I walk around the garden as this calms her, but am so aware that they are listening and know they would love to cause trouble.

I am not saying that the OP should not look into this thoroughly look at all the evidence, as child abuse is disgusting, but I also find it odd that another childminder didn't automatically report all this, especially as it seems the evidence has been gathered over a period of time

"this childminder regularly leaves ds outside in all weathers, sometimes crying for all or part of this time"

that must mean she lives near the childminder otherwise, she has been watching her for a long period of time.

Remember this could have dire consequences for both her business and personal life and needs handling professionally by the proper authorities,

sorry I have not been back, it has all been a bit of a blur tbh.

Latest is that because we live in a small place, my cm has managed to figure out who both the parents and the parents cm are. She has confronted the other cm and asked precisely what you are all asking. If she has witnessed neglect or abuse, why has she not followed proper procedure and raised a complaint? This cm was shifty and denied all knowledge apparently, am inclined to believe as she does seem a bit gossipy and not so nice.

What we want to happen is for the other parents to lodge a complaint asap, so that it can all be investigated properly, as news about it is starting to get out a bit and as we know, this is potentially career wrecking stuff. Having spoken to our cm, she has said that she kind of hopes they complain too, so that she can have the opportunity to clear her name. I would not say that the trust has completely gone and I do think that the other cm has fanned the flames a bit, and not sure she can be trusted at all. However, having said that, my thoughts and feelings change about a hundred times a day, so no further forward really.

As to whether my ds is happy or not. Well, he does cry a lot when I leave him, and according to dd does cry a bit during the day, but he always seems really happy when I pick him up, and not desperate to leave.

I am going to contact the parents tonight and find out if they have registered a complaint yet, try to encourage them to do so if they have not yet, and see what happens over the next few days - I imagine that they would take action pretty quickly?

Thank you for all your support and advice, mn was the first place I turned to because I was lost, I really was.

I wouldn't go so much from your son crying when you leave him. My son was about 20 months when I left him with his childminder and he would cry all the time too. We had a break over summer and now he's just fine with it, so I think it's more an age thing. I think the not being upset when you pick him up is more an indication.

Hope you get it all cleared up and some peace of mind as soon as possible.

Even if they lodge a complaint all ofsted will do is ask versions of events from the various parties then decide what to do, I doubt they'd go as far as CCTV.

I had a malicious complaint made against me anonymously saying apparently a child fell of a chair banged their head and I did nothing, another childminder was with me and it didn't happen, the other childminder wrote me a support letter and I had to write a report as to what happened (or didn't happen but what I would do if it did) ofsted never even visited me I wish they had as it was dragged out for over a month.

If your ds is crying a lot while he's there, I'd think about moving him based on that alone.

How old is your DD? What does she say?

the problem is that in truth there's no way of knowing whether or not this childminder is telling the truth.

Unfortunately my experience of childminders (not as a customer but as someone who has known various of them through school) I think this kind of thing is all too common and in truth there's A no way of knowing for certain and B it all comes down to one person's word against another.

It's all very well going to ofsted but their assessment only really counts for the day they come out (if they even bother) and as long as she's got her paperwork up to date and can deny deny deny and the babies in question are too young to confirm it's really a bit of a pointless process.

I would go with my gut feeling, and if you have a child that is generally unhappy at the CM and a CM who seems uncooperative then I would seek childcare elsewhere, preferably in a nursery tbh as at least then there is more than one person to look out for him.

Rosigirl ,awful for you, totally disgusting and sometimes I wonder why anybody does the so difficult job of child care.

.Rita her dd who presumably is a child says he 'cries a lot' sorry you would move your child for that??? seriously...

I had a mindee who cried for 3 weeks before she settled with me, non stop, she still cries with her own grand parents, some kids do and trust me it was hard to keep looking after her but I am a professional and felt I had to keep going, she is fine now but it probably sounded like she was being abused as she screamed non stop for 3 weeks to be honest she was abusing me as I nearly cracked under the strain..she is a doll now..

I have mindees who tell me stuff about parents arguing and I quote;'daddy saying unkind things to mummy', I dont obviously think oh my God Dad is a bastard and I will contact social services at once, get a bloody grip.

thesoo, a storm has been raised and not by you as you acted as you had to do so as a parent, as a cm I would be phoning Ofsted to demand them to investigate me and if your cm found to be innocent(as I suspect she is as you had no worries about her prior to this) I would be sending solicitors letters to all concerned,(not you)

I am amazed how quick posters seem to condem this cm, to give notice and therefore blast her business and reputation on what can be seen now as at least hearsay from one person and possible lies from both.

as said before how would all the hang her high posters on here like to be effectivly sacked, and worse be given a reputation as a child abuser, on gossip and heresay.. I bet you would be squealing to tribunerals..

op why dont you chap on the childmindersneighbours doors and ask if they see a baby left out to cry?

I have a childminder who lives near me and I regularly see her shouting and hauling kids up the road when its plain they are just tired from walking, I asked her about it once and she just rolled her eyes at me

some childminders are fab, but if I had any doubts I'd pull my kids out of the one you use

How awful for you

It does just come down to her word against theirs, but I think I'd move my child given the circumstances. It's a horrible situation all round, both for you and the CM, but ultimately it's the child who is the most important person here, and whilst there is a shred of doubt I'd err on the side of caution.

just read your insulting post Wannabbe, nursery, little teds maybe,
or the one in Birmingham with the male paedophile.. dont be so bloody silly. there are good and bad cms, nurserys, doctors, police etc etc etc... and good and bad parents.

how dare you condem this cm or any cm on 'my gut feeling' can I ask what is your job? would you like to get the sack on someones 'gut 'dislike or mistrust of you.

if you had bothered to read the original post she described her cm as 'gentle and caring'

you are clearly the idle gossip type who causes this sort of problem..

I agree with wannabe how can ofsted prove anything ? The childminder will be on her guard now.

as a cm I actually feel physically sick at the volly of abuse directed at this cm who has been condemmned without a shred of evidence, indeed one of her original accusors has back tracked..

I am sharing this post with my dh, he doesnt usually get involved but actually says now he doesnt think cming is worth this to us as a couple.

I feel we share our lives with our own dcs but also 7 magical, special little visitors who spend a lot of their little lives in our family and are cared for and loved while they are here, same discipline, same treats, confidence boosts and care as our own dcs had and have. My older kids act like big brothers to them and the kids adore them.

Today i am planning Christmas activities including a hunt for santas boots(my oldest dss boots) with clues, cards and presents and photos of the children made into baubles for the parents...

and some posters say.'gut feeling she is a bad cm so get rid'...really really sad and unfair..

Redglow so even if she is found innocent by Ofsted you would say no smoke without fire, how lovely.

I have reported a nursery before where i know they was not not nice to the children and ofsted did not prove anything so nothing was done. So not much faith in ofsted no.

There are some brilliant childminders and nannies out there and there are some awful ones too.

Go with your instinct but do not take any chances your children are too precious.

I am so sorry to hear that you are not happy with what you have heard i wouldnt be either,i am a registered cm and am shocked to hear the way your child has been treated if she/he is registered speak of your concerns to ofsted that is what they are there for and ask your local council for advise if you feel she is to unapproachable and above all put your childs needs first.

I don't think that you will ever know-it is only one word against another and I don't see how Ofsted can get past that.

You can only go with your gut instinct with childcare, and once trust has gone it's gone - even if that is unfair on an innocent childminder. And yes thebody, if I thought my child cried a lot at childcare I would move them.

we're not talking about paedophiles here though are we? and there were two cases in ... how many thousands of nurseries up and down the country...

It is a fact that a childminder is generally in sole charge of her mindees and as such you have no idea what goes on there - esp when the children are still non verbal.

I have seen childminders who:

leave their mindees in the buggy constantly to scream and then complain that they are screaming; leave mindees in a car (out of sight) while dropping other mindees at nursery). Leave mindee baby asleep in the car outside a house while she went to visit a friend (car was not within sight of the window). Leave mindees in buggy for extended periods while waiting for others to finish after school activities, while sitting chatting to grown-ups and paying no attention to mindees in fact insisting they not chatter/make too much noise if they did...

And these are all different childminders. And yet the parents would never have an inkling...

And these are things that ofsted could never prove or disprove so calling them would have no impact at all.

Once children become more verbal it's different because they can express their unhappyness. but with pre-verbal babies and toddlers you do have to go with your gut feeling as there's nothing else to go on.

Agree it is pointless to report to Ofsted. What can they do? Talk to people and get the same info that you have now. And do what with that info? Guess at who is telling the truth?
With their resources which for some reason people seem to think are endless, an"investigation" just wouldn't happen.
Sorry , but it is down to you to decide, as others have said it is down to gut feeling with these things.