A concerned parent has just come to our door...

[thesoo]

..to tell us that his wife has concerns about the way our childminder is caring for our son.
We have been using this childminder for about 9 months and she takes ds and dd to a childminding group. The husband of (presumably) another childminder came to our door an hour ago, spoke to my husband, and said that his wife wanted us to know that this childminder regularly leaves ds outside in all weathers, sometimes crying for all or part of this time, and has no way of knowing he is safe beacuse he cant be seen from inside. As if this is not distressing enough, she has also been seen shouting at him while he is outside in the buggy, wagging her finger and saying ' it is your fault, if you were not crying you could come in to play'. My son is 18 months old ffs. In tears as I write this.
I would never of suspected this of the cm as she seems quite caring and gentle. She has told me that she does sometimes let him sleep in the buggy if he is not in the mood to play, but would never have suspected this.
I am not sure what to do next. Obviously will speak to the cm and tell her what I have been told, but I can imagine that she will deny it. This husband said his wife did not want to identify herself. I feel that I need some other corroboration. The husband also said that other childminders in the group were a bit scared to approach her as she can be quite touchy.
I was not around when this guy came to the door so not sure what to do. Should I try to contact one of the other minders for their opinion? Don't want to arouse suspicions if it is not true or an exaggeration?
Kids are due to go to the cm tomorrow, don't want to send them, thats for sure, just not sure what to do next...help

I would definitely try and keep the children off if I could. Are you able to take a day off? I probably wouldnt be willing to put them back at all until the issue was resolved. You need more witnesses from the toddler group.

What a worrying time for you :( I hope it isnt true.

DH has been round to both the CM and the concerned parents houses. CM denies everything completely, seemed genuinely shocked and upset. Concerned parents sticking to story and aghast at CM denial. Concerned parents chidlminder has also witnessed ds being left out, and left to cry.
Both sides seem equally credible/believable! The concerned parents will be lodging a complaint tomorrow.
I have spoken to another childminder, who backs up our childminder and thinks it is all nonsense.
No further forward. Have a solution for not sending kids this week which gives us a bit of time. Not sure beyond that. Just really want it to be not true.

As i understand it, The ncma are there for childminders, they offer us support/legal advice if we have a dispute with parents re pay/contracts or if we need to claim on our insurance, (not all cms are ncma members as we have to pay to join) it be worth a try but I've heard of other parents who've rung them about disputes and they aren't interested as its the childminders who are members. also we aren't regulated by ncma they are purely a support organisation so it's not upto them to decide if things are right/wrong.

Also just because you have sn ncma contract doesn't mean the cm is a member as any cm can buy them off the website.

How did they find out who you were? Is the woman sure she has the right CM/child?

What an awful situation . If you've been using this CM for 9 months and have had no niggles or complaints so far, I would say there is a lot for trusting your instinct.

Clearly you need to talk to the leader of the group, and any other attendees, for their opinions. But if your CM was as cruel and heartless as this husband made her out to be, then the chances are you would have some little niggles with her by now, and noticed your DCs not being particularly happy there?

I had a similar (not so bad perhaps) situation, with a mum at a toddler group that the DCs go to with their CM. She came up to me in the park and said that my CM was ignoring my DD2, just chatting, and once she found her crawling beyond the baby gates towards the loos un-noticed. I was totally floored, as we'd been using her since DD1 was 8 months, so about 2 years, by this point. I went and spoke to the group leader, who said she hadn't noticed anything except for how lovely our CM was with the kids. With the 2 years history, and the fact that my DDs adored her, I just put it down to different parenting styles (ie this mum thought you should hover over babies all the time, my CM and me are both happy to let them toddle off and explore, whilst keeping an eye of course). Made me feel very nervous about using her for a while (although I never told her, as didn't want to upset her), but we've got past that now, and I'm glad we have, because she genuinely adds to my DCs lives.

Not saying you should ignore this, far from it, and there may be something to it - leaving a child out in the rain crying is not as easily explainable as just letting a child get on with playing by themselves. I hope you manage to get to the bottom of this soon.

Definitely our child. the group only runs one day a week and she only looks after our kids on that day. The concerned mother is a parent who picks her child up from the group, her CM knows who we are and told her roughly where we live, so that mystery is solved at least. I don't think it is malicious, as she said she doesn't even know our CM name.

How did your DH leave it with your CM?

I'd still send them this week. She's either going to avoid the group this week or be extra attentive.

If you don't send your DS to her this week it is most likely to ruin your relationship with her and if you have been happy up until now that would be a real shame wouldn't it.

Is there anyone else who attends the group you could speak to?

At the moment you have the concerned parents and their childminder (whom you haven't yet spoken with - is that right) voicing concerns over the standard of care provided by a childminder you use.

They are going to take that down the right channel - reporting it to the regulator (assuming they feel unable to report to the childminder directly), so will then be up to the regulator to decide to do an investigation or not.

Your childminder was shocked and upset upon being told about the accusation. You are stuck in the middle and it's going to be hard for you as you don't know who to trust. I would hope that you felt you could trust your childminder, until proved wrong in placing that trust with them. Your childminder at least now knows about the accusation, so if it is true, they are not likely to be doing it this week are they... as they know others are watching.

Another childminder thinks it's nonsense - they may have known your childminder for many years but they may not know all that happens at your childminders home.

Where did the alleged incident take place? I think you are saying it took place at childminding group... so the childminder you have spoken with probably attends that group, so would have noticed something if it was happening.

Did you find out how they knew where you lived?

I'd be inclined to believe them as they have left their address and been open about it. Don't go and try and spy on the session as she will see you and be as nice as pie to your children. I'd ring the childminder and say you don;t need her the following day then take your child to the playgroup yourself and ask the other mums what they have seen. If they say it is true then ring your childminder and say you don't want her anymore.

i would also find out who the Concerned parents chidlminder and NEVER use her as if she had wittness that behavior she should have reported straight away and not told her parents who you where . I would be reporting her myself.

Why has the other childminder allowed this to happen regularly? If I saw this once I would report it, maybe as another poster said its a difference of opinions eg one childminder may play out in a weathers, others will maybe prefer dry weather?

There's no way I'd send my child back in this situation unless I knew 100% that the story was wrong.

Is your CM OFSTED registered? What's her report like?

If it was me I'd want to talk to the concerned parents myself, to get an idea what they're like. And the CM too.

However from what you've said, as Stay123 says as the concerned parents are being open about it, and also actually lodging a complaint then they seem credible.

What a horrible situation :(

I don't know if it'd be any help, but we found 2 lovely CMs through www.childcare.co.uk

longjane - that is interesting, didn't think of it that way, quite unprofessional behaviour on the part of that childminder. Could she have an agenda. Going to extreme lengths to drum up a bit of business.

What a horrible situation. Fwiw, I wouldn't send my kids back to the childminder, if I could avoid it, until I felt more comfortable.

I'm a serial childminder user & am a big fan, but out of the three childminders I've used, when I left one, a number of parents then commented that they'd had concerns about her. But no-one had said anything to me. Yes, I did have niggling concerns, but it was only after I'd left that others also shared their concerns.
And from what my son has said since (he didn't say anything that caused me concerns at the time) his treatment wasn't great. Despite the fact he never wanted to leave/was reasonably keen to go etc.

I would be asking around as broadly as you can - childminder networks and friendships are not always immeadiately obvious, and the wider you cast your net, the more accurate your viewpoint is likely to be.

tbh i wouldnt have said anything and then gone to spy check her out with your children at this child minding group and also at her house then said something but too late for that now

obv she is going to say she doesnt do this and act shocked

tbh im surprised that all the other parents/cms at this group havnt said anything

CM is either guilty of neglect or innocent.

If she's innocent she would have been shocked and would have denied all knowledge
If guilty she would have have been shocked at being found out and would have denied all knowledge.

So it doesn't help, does it?

I can imagine another CM having an agenda to blacken the name of your CM (for whatever reason) - esp in small village settings (I live in a village myself and we could run our boilers on the hot air created by all the gossip that goes on), but I can't see the other parents having an agenda.

I'd trust the other parents if it were me.

I think you?ll have to go to Ofsted with this one and present them with the evidence and let them investigate. Horrible for your cm, she may lose business if this gets out-even if she is totally innocent. And I?m surprised the other party hasn?t already reported her to Ofsted. Give your cm a ring and suggest she reports it herself as it is a complaint- no matter where it comes from, and then she can prepare for a visit from Ofsted knowing she has followed procedure.

Gosh so many what ifs. What if any of the childminders are lying? What if there's a case of mistaken identity? What if it's a huge misunderstanding?

I would also be very that a childminder who has apparently witnessed child abuse or behaviour she believes is improper would tell one of her parents instead of reporting it properly.

see what I dont understand as a mum and a cm, if I saw anyone, parent or cm or nanny constantly neglecting, shouting or leaving a child outside in a car or buggy I would approach them myself not whisper behing backs and make accusations that I would not be prepered to back up. I would also contact the parents and be prepered to make a statment and contact Ofsted. so who are these people??

think its odd she was so reluctant to give her name as child abuse is so vile.

I think as a mum I would obviously want to investigate this of course and talk to as many other people as possible, who runs the group for a start?.

if a complaint is made then Ofsted will investigate it and then you will no more of the truth of this all rather than hearsay and gossip.

2 people looking at any child related situation may have totally different reactions to behaviour and discipline, unless a child is actually being assalted or clearly shouted at:

for instance If I say no to a child I mean no, i dont do bribing to behave, other parents might take a more laiser fayre approach and allow pester power for a quiet life, and see my approach as hard ,I use reins for small toddlers, some of the mums and cms at my school let them run all over the place, I see that as bloody dangerous and scares the crap out of me but they may see diving into the road to retrive their children as a bit of normal fun .... iyswim

poor you and poor cm if she is innocent of this, I have to be totally honest with you as a mum I totally understand your actions, what else could you do?

but as a cm this would devestate me totally and the trust between us would be broken, such a sad situation, let us all know what happens though.. good luck hun

how does your ds react when you leave him with her?

thebody the OP says a few posts in that the concerned parents have said they're going to lodge a complaint (presumably wih OFSTED).

I think sometimes you do not no what to do for the best you have to be really sure of the facts before you start reporting people. Even if ofsted get involved its proveing it all. I would not send my child back.