Am I being unreasonable with my childminder

[mimosa]

Today I discovered that my childminder had taken my 2 children (3 and 5) with her to do her christmas food shopping at Tescos. This was a 34 mile round trip in the snow and ice - very dangerous driving conditions. My 3 year old didnt even get out of her car - she feel asleep for the inward journey, which meant she would have been sat in her carseat for a minimum of 2 hours - so cross about that. (this then resulted in her not settling tonight - didnt get down until 9.30 which meant my night was gone) Which is why I am still up at 12.45 am
I feel that there was no education value, or fun value for my chilren and if she had asked me if it was ok for her to do this, I would have said no. Mainly on the grounds that if she had had a driving accident and hurt my children - I would have killed her with my bare hands! But also on the grounds that I am paying her (£90) a for her to look after my children - not drag them around the shops - their least favourite activity
I am so mad at her - and so is my husband - Also the children tell me another adult was in the car with them?? Who is this adult ? Have they been CRB checked.? Not happy but obviously I am a protective mum and so another perspective might help me sort my feelings out. Because at the moment I am seriously considering giving her notice. I have some other issues with her, but this could be the straw that broke the camels back - so to speak. What do other mums and childminders think?

agree with Eweatherwax, she is expecting punctuality from you but also expecting you to be flexible for her. not a fair deal.

I feel that the relationship with the CM has broken down - do you agree?

you might consider giving notice and starting afresh; she's just going to go on annoying and irritating you and the stress isn't worth it

lol love the name Boys - and so agree!!! - with the name and that the relationship has broken down - sounds like it never really got it together anyway.

Boys - There's a difference between taking children on a 34-mile trip to a supermarket in hazardous driving conditions and taking your childminded children on an educational and fun shopping trip, surely? I would have taken childminded children to a local shop to buy vegetables/fruit, then we might have walked home and cooked with them. I would not have taken them shopping for my own benefit, as this childminder seemed to do, with no regard for the comfort (and, it could be argued, safetly) of the children.

As for those who say the CM was right to have the children sitting outside, waiting, when the OP was late - they were COLD. She was not considering their welfare. In this situation, she could have considered charging the OP extra for being late and maybe pointed out that it made things difficult for her, rather than just making the children sit outside, as if her responsibilities were over at 6pm.

I have a childminder myself now. She is absolutely wonderful and would be aghast at what the op is describing.

Mimosa - just read your last post and your CM sounds awful. I have no doubt about it. Find a new one.

i didn't say it was right to have them standing outside. i said it was right that teh CM sent the message that 6pm was pick-up time by having them ready to go.

I agree that the relationship has broken down and you would be better off finding someone else to mind them.

However, I wouldn't mind her taking them shopping, even her food shop for Christmas. So it was borng - life isn't a funfair - best they get used to that idea now rather than think the world revolves around them.

I wouldn't mind her DH staying in the car with my DD. Frankly, CRB checks aren't worth the paper they are written on, but I thought for CM's all members of the household over 16 were CRB'd (is that not the case?). One of the reasons I would choose a CM over a nursery would be to have this kind of a set up. Kids doing normal day to day jobs, occasionally doing something boring like supermarket shopping for Christmas.

As for waiting outside for you, if you hadn't called to say you were running late and she'd got their coats etc on they were probably too hot inside. Yes they were looking a bit fed up - they were waiting for you!

As for the charges - I presume she is then available to you to collect the children if they need to be collected from school/nursery due to illness etc & that she has them in the holidays/inset days etc? You are paying for her to keep the space for you. £90 a day works out at £4.50 per child per hour - the rates will vary from area to area - but would you look after someone elses child for less than £4.50 an hour?

I think you are being unreasonable on all counts except for the road condition. I don't know where you are. Our roads are fine today, just wet, no worse than if it had been raining and I imagine most main roads would have been fine with the exception of a lot of Scotland - so I don't know if you are BR or BU with regard to that.

If you change childminders you need to make sure you are happy with all of the terms & conditions next time and that you talk about what you are and aren't happy for the children to do and if the CM agrees then you both know where you stand.

You know what - you are all right.
Firstly the relationship has broken down and yes, it was never really great anyway. My son always cries when he has to go there, and he wet himself there a little while ago - a thing he has NEVER done since potty training.
By writing these things down and getting some honest replies its has really helped me sort by thoughts out.

The thing about being late that one time - I feel like she used my children as a tool to send me a message- but the adult thing to do would have been to communicate that verbally to me. I really didnt want to be late - I know my children would have been anxious as to why I was late and I feel she added to their anxiety.
I think I will be looking for a new childminder in the new year........

Fair enough, Ilove, but the CM should have kept them indoors, not had them sitting outside in the cold. It was the cold that was the issue, not the fact that the children were ready to go.

I think there was another unidentified adult in the car, Chipping, not just the DH. That was what mimosa was worried about.

I agree re the charges - mimosa, the NCMA would be able to advise you on this, but it is fairly normal practise to pay to keep the space open for your children, as Chipping said. And good advice from Chipping re checking on terms and conditions next time.

Going to bed now, but hope you get the situation sorted out as easily as possible, mimosa.

I wouldn't drive my mindees in this snow - ask to see her risk assessment of the journey. Surely she could have gone after work, very few Supermarkets are shut at 6pm.

She should not have left one of the children in the car with her DH, unless he is also registered. I'm guessing your child fell asleep on the way there and she didn't want to wake them, but that's not the point.

I do take my mindees to the supermarket, but not for a big shop and it is a truly interactive learning experience when I do. This is with the full knowledge of their parents.

£4.50 per hour is not bad, depending on where you live. Paying while a child is a school is unusual in my area, but paying while a child is at pre school, or nursery is normal.

For me, the biggest worries are the driving in the snow and the child left outside her supervision.

You wouldnt get a childminer for £4.5 ph where I am in the south east, I charge £6 ph but that does include all food / activities etc.

I will take my mindees shopping, and have taken them to a supermarket, as the others have said it can be made into a learning experience. I would never do the big shop (well I dont ever do a big shop.........maybe you should let her into a secret of internet shopping!)

Can you sit down with her and have a chat about the things your are unhappy about?

Mimosa don't be put off by one bad childminder, there are lots and lots of fantastic childminders out there.

not a cm but the whole point of a mum using a cm is to have the day to day usual experiences, ie shopping

admitly can think of nothing worse than going food xmas shopping with 2 dc

she should have woken your dc up and taken her into the shop, tho agree if was her dh then he would have had a crb but is he insured to look after/care for your dc

4.50ph sounds normal, dont forget you have 2 dc so costs are double

a finishing time is there for a reason and dont see the problem in having coats/hats on and ready to go, esp if she had to be somewhere

but sounds to me, lot of niggles and you would be better off with a new cm

On a normal day (no icy roads) i wouldn't mind. I think a supermarket trip can be both fun and educational experience (but not if you leave the child in the car).
But i wouldn't like my dcs to be driven -without my agreement- on icy roads.

Nipping to the shop to buy lunch ingredients and let them choose a treat is a lovely shopping trip, one which I would include my childminder (if I had one) to make.

Driving a 34 mile round trip in bad weather conditions to do a last ditch shop 3 days before Christmas - I'd be very pissed off, because my children would get nothing but stress from the whole ordeal and it's not an adequate way to make someone who you are PAID to care for spend their time.

And actually, she's pulling in £9 an hour for the care of 2 children and she really should have sent her husband.

If what you're paying in terms of keeping the space open while your DS/DD is at school/nursery; you'd have to pay very little extra for a nanny. Of course there may be other reasons why you'd rather have a cm, but it may be worth considering.

omg this is so wrong i would even take my own children food shopping any time of the year never mind at Christmas

£90 is a lot!! i charge £22 per child for those hours

Persoanlly i do not do my weekly/xmas shop when i am working. I do take children to the shops but not to do a biggie. Of course there is educational value in it and we often write a list and go. We are a homebased setting and in that sense we include children in doing homebased activities such as going to a supermarket or down town.

Regarding the driving in the snow - well some people are more confident that others aren't they. I hate driving in the bad weather and try to avoid doing so, my husband on the other hand drives about as if it isn;t there. Of course you'd be upset if anything happen to your children but you do need to get some perspective and also a handle on the concept of accident otherwise you are going to drive yourself into an early grave worrying and letting fear fester.
I will always look after my minded children to the best of my ability and would NEVER let any harm come to them if it can be avoided, I would probably put myself in harms way to protect them but if i thought a parent thought like you... well....

Regards the other adult - the minded children I care for come into contact with oother adults I know - crb checked or not all the time. As a good minder I ensure the childrens safety at all times and i explain the boundaries to the visitor/adult - to protect them. I don't always think to tell the parents of every adult i have contact with during my day.

I think you need to talk to your minder clear up some misundertandings and reset the expectations. if you can't do this then it sounds like you need to find different care that you can trust - because to me it sounds like you do not trust your existing care. you say about complaining to Ofsted - about what? That you object to her taking the children out in the car in this weather? Whilst i don't agree with the minder doing her BIGGIE shop during working hours (it could be that she has no other time to do though perhaps?) I do not believe that it merits a complaint.

As a minder of a long time..... minded children have come to the supermarket/library/dentist/hospital/town/meetings - work ones with me on many occasions and they have all been educational because i made them so. Its all stuff they would be doing with the parent iyswim

DMO - you seriously charge £22 for 10 hours minding - £2.20 per hour? Are you a registered childminder?

The thing that would bug me most and made me call Ofsted is leaving your child with another adult without her supervision. CRB checked or not she has no right to leave your child with any adult unsupervised unless it's an emergency like for example she has to go to hospital etc. Shopping is not an emergency ... She had choice ... wait in the car until she wakes up, wake her up and take her with her, go shopping another time ... she did make the wrong choice and I'd make sure she knows it and never does it again.

what is clear is that you and your CM have different expectations about what her role and responsibilities are. In that situation you can either discuss each of your expectations and see if there is any flexibility on either side to renegotiate (eg, around having flexibility re pick up on the odd occasion, perhaps you could text before pick up if you know you'll be late etc; agreed max time to spend in the car). This will take calmness and a willingness to actually continue the relationship tho, it sounds liek you might be beyond that point having lost trust in her.

Personally I think having another adult in charge of a child for any length of time who isn't CRB checked and/or of whom the parent has not been notified in advance is a massive breach of trust - most of the time this would prob not turn out to be a real issue but the point is there are very strict rules around child safety which you need to trust your CM can stick to. I would certainly communicate this to her when you hand in notice as something you consider a serious failing.

Apotomak - you see, really, it's not that black & white. In the same situation I would rather she left my child asleep in the car with her DH than wake her up to take her into the supermarket. It's personal preferences and you have to choose a CM that suits you. As far as I'm concerned that is a complete waste of Ofsteds time & resources.

Omaoma - I am sure the husband will have been CRB checked. Ths child was asleep and he kept an eye on her. I really can't see what the big deal is. You might consider she failed you, I wouldn't consider she'd failed me.

Consider other child care options in case you cant get a suitable childminder. eg fuller days at the nursery, breakfast and afterschool club at school etc

I can and have been livid about people other than my CM even being in the house with the kids she's supposed to be looking after! the point is, it's about sticking to the rules because on the horrible, occasional occasion, that 'extra person who was alone with them for half an hour' turns out to not be as low a risk as you'd thought.

I'm not really a reactionary l 'everybody in the world should get CRB-checked person' but on this point i think it's a big deal.

also i don't think christmas shopping is an emergency (which is what i would forgive a CM leaving a sleeping child with somebody different for, or making a potentially dangerous journey for for that matter). sounds like CM hasn't been organised, isn't doing risk assessments seriously as required and doesn't take the rules seriously.

... and breathe!