Support thread for those of us who are requesting an ELCS after a previous traumatic delivery

[withorwithoutyou]

Hello everyone.

I have noticed a lot of threads regarding requesting ELCS lately, probably because I am in the process of trying to request one myself!

I just wondered if it might be useful for us to have a support thread where we can talk this all through as I know it can be a challenging process to go through.

Can I please also ask in the nicest possible way that anybody contributing to this thread can respect our desire for ELCS over VB? Thank you!

Anyway, I'll start - I have one DD, born 20 months ago by forceps after failed ventouse. She weighed 9 pounds 11 and I am concerned this one will be heavier! I am 30 weeks and have my first consultants appt tomorrow where I will be requesting an ELCS!

Withorwithoutyou, I am impressed that you can reach in order to apply immac, I'm afraid I am going to have to rely on nurse and dry Bic.

Everything finally sorted out with the consultant, they tried to blame my MW (which really fills me with confidence!). Anyway, I now have it in writing that I am having a c-section, I am second on the list, and am having an anaesthetist meeting next Thurs - thank god, I am suffering in this heat!

Hi all,

I posted a while ago about my quest for an ELCS following traumatic EMCS of DS 19 months ago. I'm now 28 weeks and had an appointment with my consultant yesterday.

Waited ages after requesting to see the consultant rather than one of her registrars (she cared for me antenatally and in labour with DS and has been very sympathetic) and as I went to be called she was called to an emergency. I was already weeping by the time I went in to the registrar (actually, seeing a woman in labour in the lift started it off) - I've bottled up everything about the birth and it all came pouring out of me. I mean the works: I can't look at photos of DS up to 4 months without crying (big haemotoma on forehead - still visible now), I felt violated by frequent examinations, I felt powerless, I feared for my life, my relationship with DH suffered almost irreparably. The registrar nodded and smiled and then told me that the hospital recommend VBACs. And that was it. I suggested I might need to go through my birth notes with someone. She said that sounded like a good idea.

I went and asked at reception for an appointment with my consultant soon so I can talk about this and was told I'd have to wait till 36 weeks (I have this appointment and will demand to see her - unless there is an emergency...)

Where do I go from here? The thought of a VBAC induces tears, dread and macabre thoughts and I can't even contemplate it.

Sorry for not posting sooner - I've been trying to forget that any of this has to happen and this has all opened it up.

TIA

redlamayellowlama - it sounds like you have been through an absolutely horrendous time. It makes me so angry that so many hcps take these things so lightly, when it has such a huge effect on our lives.

I would talk to your MW about it (is she sympathetic? If not ring the MWs office and try to find someone who is), emphasise that your fears about the birth are affecting your pregnancy, inducing panic and anxiety, and that you would like to try to get something sorted before 36 weeks. (When I called the MW office, I received an appointment for the following week in the post the next day).

I really hope you get something sorted, it made me feel a lot more in control when they gave me a date for a c-section.

Have you been in touch with the birth trauma association here?

redllamayellowllama - so sorry you had to go through that such a nightmare the consultant got called away at the last second. Its so hard to push for what you want and need when you feel so vulnerable but its the only thing you can do - like Hazeyjane suggests I would try the midwives until you find someone sympathetic and work from there. Perhaps try and referred to a psychologist who may do a letter for you about your mental/emotional state WRT to VB. Good luck with it.

Well I had my pre op yesterday and was in the most hormonal/bad mood so when the anaethestist asked me why I wanted ELCS I nearly bit his head off! Funnily enough, after that he was super nice and minimised all the risks of ELCS and nearly went as far as to say "actually its probably safer than VB"

Got given my antacid tablet thingy but no surgical stockings?? not sure why. Told to turn up at 8am but to expect to be bumped for emergencies. However the good thing is they only book one ELCS per day so in the unlikely event there are no emergencies I will be first in.

Cant believe Im nearly there, 8 years after DS's traumatic birth, scraping the money together to pay for IVF after DH's failed vasectom reversal (a vasectomy he had as a reaction to seeing the trauam caused by DS's birth), scares with the baby's heartbeat and only 5 days left to wait! Please god dont let anything go wrong!

withor - only 3 days left for you! Very excited for you!

God redllama, that is absolutely disgusting treatment, I'm so sorry for you.

It's not for the hospital to tell you that you are having a vbac - you need to be able to go through your options properly and one of those options should be ELCS.

If I were in your shoes I would do one of two things. Either 1) go absolutely crazy at the hospital, find somebody senior to complain to and basically say that the VBAC they are suggesting is completely against your will, that you haven't been listened to, that you are not going to wait til 36 weeks to discuss ELCS etc etc etc.

Or, 2) Depending on what the other hospitals in your area are like consider transferring to one of those hospitals. The hospital I originally wanted to go to said I couldn't speak to a consultant til 36 weeks so I transferred to a different one and they saw me at 30 weeks.

I'm sorry you're going through this, it's such an unnecessary worry at a stressful enough time.

Mookle - still hanging in there. Sorry your anaesthetist asked you about your reasons, I'm kind of dreading being asked that too, but I may just perfect a withering look. It's hard enough having all these emotional reasons for wanting an ELCS without then being expected to explain them to all and sundry. I guess the anaesthetist maybe needs to know from a medical point of view so I'll be prepared for that.

Can't believe it's only 3 days to go for me. Trying to get the house all sorted this weekend and the freezer stocked up with food. Feel a bit stressed but I guess that's natural, plus there's quite a good chance I may be told next mont that I'm being made redundant and that's playing on my mind even though I keep trying to push it away.

Sorry for the ramble!

JUst wanted to say GOOD lUCK withorwithoutyou for tomorrow just incase you dont have chance to look on here after today ...although Idont think you will need luck, I hope you have a lovely, calm and wonderful birth and really look forward to hearing your ELCS story afterwards - will probably only get to read it after I have my own story though as I go in 2 days after you so I will be thinking of you! Lots of love mookle.

Thank you mookle! Hope you are doing ok too. I have had a few last minute wobbles this weekend but still sure I'm doing the right thing, have just let the naysayers get to me a bit I think.

Anyway, my parents are in the car on their way here to look after DD so should be here in about an hour which will be a big weight off my mind.

I will post my story as soon as I can - probably Thursday or Friday. Will be thinking of you too Mookle, I hope it goes really well xx

Can fully sympathise with the last minute wobbles - I am feeling a mixture of scared and excited/relieved that its nearly here. I think I'm worried about what recovery will be like I dont know about you?

Thats good that your parents are on the way, another thing less to worry about. I go in on thursday so hoping to be out on saturday (maybe sunday at the latest)so I will look out for your post on saturday. Have you got all your stuff packed? I am trying to get a few last minyte jobs sorted out but its hard when you are not very mobile! Oh well I'm sure none of it will matter that much on thrsday!

Are you intending to breast feed? thats really worrying me that I wont produce any colostrum/milk cause there will be no hormonal cascade thingy!

I've tried to put the recovery out of my mind, still in denial I think!

More worried about whether c-s is definitely the safest thing for my baby but I have to keep reminding myself that I've seen the effects of a bad vb on a baby and don't want to repeat that.

Also trying not to worry about breastfeeding! We had problems last time and DD was readmitted as she lost 20% of her birthweight. Now, I'm fairly sure that that was down to the trauma we both experienced.

I was researching b/f after c-s and read somewhere that NICE are now saying women shouldn't be advised that c-s will cause problems b/feeding - as it's the removal of the placenta that starts the milk there's no physiological reason an ELCS should mean poor breastfeeding. It's mainly the physical barriers, i.e. being difficult to pick the baby up, so as long as you ask for lots of help it should be ok.

Apparently a trauma to you or the baby can cause poor b/feeding though, and you and I will both be missing out on that this time round (dear god fingers crossed)!

Thanks for your advice ladies - the hospital rang me today (I think the drama I caused at the appointment desk after seeing the registrar may have them a little worried) and I've got an appointment on Wednesday to thoroughly talk through DS' birth notes with their senior midwife. Feeling very nervous about hearing it all, but I know it will be a cathartic process.

Have spent the weekend doing a lot of thinking and am now back to where I was at the beginning - wondering if a VBAC is best for me. I wish someone could make the decision for you (although that's actually what the hospital are attempting to do and it makes me furious).

Have ordered the VBAC hypnobirthing CD - I figure that even if I go for an ELCS, the first one, which focuses on coming to terms with a traumatic birth, will help.

Sorry to have been so self-indulgent and not caught up with anyone else's news. Good luck for tomorrow withorwithoutyou!

redllama - thats great news about your appointment with the senior midwife, like you say, I imagine it will be a very cathartic process.

Withor - I'd convinced myself this was best route for safe delivery of baby - just scared of MRSA etc (been frightened by a poster ion another thread who contracted it after an EMCS. But there are scare stories for every possible way you can do this thing I guess, so we both have to try and put them to one side I suppose! Its hard isnt it!

Thats really interesting and useful info about the removal of the placenta and BF - makes me feel so much better, I also found it impossible to BF after my traumatic delivery so its actually kind of reassuring that was to do with trauma rather than hormonal cascade of birth or whatever.

Hello ladies
I havent managed to read all of the posts but have followed part of the thread.
Congratulations to everyone who had a successful ELCS and good luck to everyone trying to get one!

I just got a copy of my birth notes from the birth of my dd 2 yrs ago.
Quite emotional reading through what happened

I was wondering if anyone could help me, as I have a few questions
looking at my notes it appears my dd heart rate decreased to 56bpm around 2pm on day of induction, my liqor was also blood stained at this point my notes say, patient advised that no rooms available in delivery suite etc etc ( I was on a ward)

at 1533, the babies HR was below 56 still and I was then transferred to a delivery room, there were decelerations at ths point and nil accellerations and it says that risks are suspicious and the action is to continue
at 1700 there were still decelerations and again suspicious is written on the notes.

I was given entonox and they attempted vacuum extraction which failed 3 times as baby was back to back and they hadnt realised, she was then rotated and then out came the scissors and the forceps which got her out.
Sorry for the big long essay
but I was wondering surely it is not normal if a babies HR drops below 56bpm at 2pm to leave me until 1700 to attempt instrumental delivery ( with only G and A - no room to give me epidural in earlier) They faffed around for 50 minutes with the ventouse and teh forceps before dd came out at 1750.
Why wasnt I taken for a C section????

Another question I have is that on the Suturing report from the episiotomy it doesnt say what degree, all it says is my posterior vaginal wall, muscle and skin were sutured
I was left with prolapse and urge incontinence after the birth and lots of trauma and stress and now im pg with number 2

What do you think my chances are of getting an elcs??

Just spoke to Original hospital and a senior midwife is coming to visit me at home to do a debrief!

withor - good luck for tomorrow! I hope all is smooth and parts at least actually enjoyable for you

I am having trouble bf after initially having no problems, but I did struggle straightaway after my forceps birth - much worse that time actually. I have thrush again so starting treatment for it, I just seem prone to it for some reason. I bf in recovery after the elcs and I had also heard it's the placenta removal that causes the milk show, not labour. I certainly had plenty of colostrum and then milk came in as expected about day 3. I have had no supply problems, I just get cracked nipples easily and then seem to pick up thrush to match.

I'm sure a traumatic arrival, whether forceps or emcs, affects feeding due to stress levels in both mother and baby - but that's my unscientific pet theory rather than fact! I think after an elcs people are happy to pass you the baby, whereas after forceps much too much was expected of me straightaway and I had less help given. I hadn't laboured this time so that has to help the energy levels too for disturbed sleep from feeding.

gateacre1 - glad you are having a debrief. I found it really helpful to take a list of questions in as I got very emotional and couldn't always recall what else I wanted to know unless it was in black and white in front of me!

mookle - oooooh, nearly you too! I do think an elcs is a lot better than an emcs and much less likely to have complications from a rush job. I hope your fears subside so you can enjoy the birth this time

So excited to hear your stories soon.

yes you are prob right lovethesea - getting more excited/scared by the minute! Cant wait/dreading it LOL

All the very best for tomorrow withorwithoutyou, it will be over before you know it and you can enjoy your lovely new baby and your peace of mind that it's all done and behind you!

Mookie, just realised yours in in a couple of days as well - all the very best! Don't worry about the breastfeeding, just ask for a bit of help with positioning at first and you should be just fine. It's all going great for us at the moment, we're exclusively breastfeeding and she feeds like a dream.

Thanks ealey - thats reassuring, glad its going well for you. Have heard reports the MW's at the hospital I'm going to are not terribly supportive, to quote one former patient who posted on the MN local boards

"elective c-section with ds2 at RAEI. No issues with theatre staff but the ward was TERRIBLE. They were full to capacity, I was left (post c-section) to my own devices, made to feel an inconvenience when I needed help initially lifting ds1 during the first night in order to breast feed. I was TOLD by one midwife that she was going to give my boy a bottle because "I wasn't producing any milk" (this was despite my pointing out that at this stage only colostrum is produced and could be clearly seen around his mouth) I just as firmly told HER that under no circumstances was she to give my child anything resembling a bottle and that at 12 hours old he was perfectly normal to be wanting to be fed so regularly."

OH DEAR! I think Im going to have to steel myself for a fight post op I hate this having to fight to get decent care all the time

Hi Gateacre, I'm so sorry to hear of your experience. An appt with a sr m/w is a really good thing, I had one and she was very supportive and on my side which helped as she wrote to the consultant supporting my decision for ELCS. With regards to your notes, the heartrate thing doesn't sound very good to me - hopefully the m/w will be able to explain what went on. I'm sorry you had an asssisted delivery without adequate pain relief - the same thing happened to me and it was very traumatic. I hope your debrief goes well.

Lovethesea and Ealey - thank you! I really should think about getting an early night but it's been such a hectic day today I've hardly sat down.

The people on this thread have been so brilliant and supportive, I can't tell you the difference it's made to me to know that I'm not alone in this one. I'll update as soon as I can with my birth story, hopefully this week.

Mookle - I'll see you on the other side!!

Good luck tomorrow Withor, I hope you have a good birth - will be thinking of you.

Good luck withorwithoutyou, how exciting you will be seeing your baby soon.

Don't worry too much about the recovery, just don't overdo it. A woman I know has just started coming to playgroup again 2 wks after a elec c/s and she looks very well.

Also, I had no probs bfing dd after emer c/s, milk took 5 days to come in but I didn't know that was unusual so I didn't worry about it iyswim! Had the usual soreness/fullness etc but I think everyone gets that at some stage and went on to bf for a year!

whatshesaid so does the baby just take colostrum until milk comes in? Sorry if this sounds a stupid question, Ive never successfully BF'd and Im completely confused as to how it works...will the baby not scream blue murder from being hungry if just fed colostrum for several days?

Yes, I think she just had colostrum for 5 days.

I had the emer c/s early on the Friday morning and my milk came in the following Tuesday evening. So I guess it was just colostrum for all that time. Looking back, I'm surprised she went that long, but I think colostrum is quite rich stuff? The hosp I was at was very bf-friendly and they never suggested formula.

Dd seemed fine for those 5 days, most of the time she just slept. Maybe she was still drugged up from the pethidine, g+a, epidural and emergency c section!

I've heard colostrum is called Liquid Gold by the scbu nurses because it is so rich and full of antibodies etc. My antenatal class first time round was told it only took a drop or two to satisfy them early on. So even if he/she isn't feeding you can squeeze a couple of drops into their mouth and it will be fine.

DS was also mucusy from the birth so not very hungry for the first day or so. Totally normal according to the paed's who said once he had coughed up more mucus he'd start feeling hungry as it wouldn't be filling his tummy anymore! The mw said that even vb babies can have a fair amount of mucus to cough up too and they no longer aspirate babies post birth as they used to - a baby had a 'bad reaction' to it (I presume fatal to change policy so drastically) so they no longer suck the mucus out for c-section or mucusy vb babies.

Thanks whatshesaid and lovethesea I feel such a fool not knowing all this stuff but I also feel (as demostrated by the quote by a former patient at the hospital I will give birth at) that I will not be told any of this or reassured if BFing goes wrong and will just have a bottle shoved onto me and I really really want to give BF a good go this time, I think its part of the healing process for me after last times traumatic event, to take control back a bit or something....maybe I'm placing too much on this I dont know! Just want to be better informed this time.

Thanks again for the info, its really very helpful to me.