Support thread for those of us who are requesting an ELCS after a previous traumatic delivery

[withorwithoutyou]

Hello everyone.

I have noticed a lot of threads regarding requesting ELCS lately, probably because I am in the process of trying to request one myself!

I just wondered if it might be useful for us to have a support thread where we can talk this all through as I know it can be a challenging process to go through.

Can I please also ask in the nicest possible way that anybody contributing to this thread can respect our desire for ELCS over VB? Thank you!

Anyway, I'll start - I have one DD, born 20 months ago by forceps after failed ventouse. She weighed 9 pounds 11 and I am concerned this one will be heavier! I am 30 weeks and have my first consultants appt tomorrow where I will be requesting an ELCS!

i've just had a look on the pals website and i can't seem to find anything about requesting your birth notes.

do i just contact my local pals office?

My little boy is 2.5 Lovethesea. I'm sure you're right, and he seems OK doing lots of things with daddy instead. He's actually always been rather dependent - we still haven't won the battle to get him to feed himself with a spoon (even though he can), and he's still very attached to babyish things like his highchair which makes things a bit harder. But you're probably right in that it might give us all a kick up the backside to move things on a bit with regard to his independence. He's always been at home with me and has never been in nursery or anything, which I think is partly why he likes us doing everything for him!

Congratulations on the pregnancy NanBullen! I told my midwife at my booking-in that I at least wanted to discuss birth options with a consultant, and she referred me straight away. She was fine about it. In my case I also wanted to be referred to an out-of-area hospital, and it was better to do that sooner rather than later. I first spoke to a consultant at 20 weeks, but a final decision wasn't made until 38 weeks, 3 appointments later. I got messed around a bit though. I think it's best to try to get things moving as soon as possible, even if final decisions aren't made until later. I don't know about requesting your notes, I never did this. This may not be the case for everyone, but I actually found that I got less scared about the birth as the pregnancy went on. I don't know why, I think as I saw light at the end of the tunnel I just started looking forward to getting it all over with!

NanBullen I mentioned wanting a CS at my booking in appointment and the midwife was lovely and said I definitely ought to have a CS after my horrible shoulder dystocia with DC2.

Then at my first appt with my consultant I asked him about it and he was v brusque and said a shoulder dystocia was very common and no reason to have an ELCS (this from a man whose trolley dolly wife had 3 ELCS just because!).

He was quite rude and said to me that having an ELCS to avoid another shoulder dystocia would be 'like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut'.

I was so astounded at that appointment I just went bright red with rage and said 'Oh right'. Then luckily the baby turned breech and so I was admitted to the antenatal ward. There I spoke to a different consultant every day as they did the rounds and they all said I should have a CS even if the baby turned cephalic (which he did, right at the end). However they all said my named consultant (the one who had been so tricky) should have the final say - so I was quite prepared for a fight and to ask for a second opinion.

Then when it was his day to do the rounds on the ward he just came in like a pussycat and said 'So, you're having a CS because of previous dystocia, good move.' How odd!

So be prepared to fight is what this waffly message is all about! Good luck!

Sorry I didn't mean trolley dolly, I meant dolly bird. Totally different - sorry, no sleep and massive case of baby brain...

Nanbullen - I just emailed PALs and asked them how to get them and they sorted it all out for me. Give them a call or email them and they'll either be able to do it for you or advise you how to do it.

Litdog, how weird of your consultant! I think they like to put up a first line of defence but if you don't change your mind after that they just go with it. That's what happened to me anyway, I didn't have to argue at my second appt - was just told I was just told a c-s was authorised and that was that.

Interesting to hear how things are going with older children. I'm starting to worry a bit about how DD will react to the change.

Having decided to leave moving her into a cot until well after the baby was here we went out yesterday and ordered her a bed.

She's suddenly shot up and she's now so talll she's nearly able to climb out of her cot so I don't want to be dealing with the new bed stage and the newborn at the same time. Also thinking it will be easier to get her in and out of bed whilst I'm recovering than it would be with the cot.

Bed arrives on Thursday though and I'm dreading it as she's a great sleeper and I don't want anything to disrupt her.

Thanks litdog and withorwithoutyou. I definitely intend to fight for an elcs and so i'll have a look through my notes and go from there.

I mentioned I wanted an elcs at my booking in appointment which was at the hospital. My consultant had said in a review after my emergency forceps birth that he would be prepared to plan for an elcs for any future pregnancies, so I just assured the booking in midwife I was still going down that route. My consultant popped his head into my booking in appointment and agreed again that while there was no reason a vb 'should' go wrong again he was happy for me to aim for an elcs.

I then got moved to another consultant as the hospital closed and merged and I asked to meet with her asap to confirm the plan. I really would push to see someone asap just so you know if you need to move consultant to get what you need.

I went into my meetings with a list of my concerns about another vb and the ongoing issues from DC1's birth. I found having something written down really helpful and I think it also showed them I had seriously considered the risks of an elcs as well as the risks of a vb.

Withorwithout you, just to say that we moved dd to a bed about a month ago and I thought it might disrupt her sleep but she sleeps better in there than in her cot! I think she was getting to the stage of banging against the side of the cot in the nighttime as she was gettign too long for it.

We tucked a duvet in sideways in her bed to keep her safely in there, but she managed to turn herself around and get stuck under the duvet one night so we don't now - she has fallen out once but it's a low bed so no harm done.

She transitioned to the bed much better than I thought she would and I'm glad we did it before the baby is born.

Whatshesaid thanks for passing that on, it's really good to hear.

We started her with a pillow and duvet yesterday rather than her grobag to prepare her for the transition. She seems to like the duvet and had a really good nap today so hopefully things will go ok on Friday when we put her in the bed. Fingers crossed!

We also found the bed to cot transition much easier than expected, especially given that our little boy is very resistant to any kind of change. He wailed like a banshee for the first 10 minutes (we stayed with him and calmed him down), but was fine from then on. We did chicken out of duvets etc. though, and bought some v big sleeping bags which have the added benefit of stopping him from getting out of bed!

Phew, I don't know what I was worried about, the dr agreed to a c/s straightaway!

I went in with my list of reasons/arguments, she asked me what I thought about the birth, I said I thought in the circumstances an elective c/s might be best and she instantly said "I think that's a very realistic and sensible decision" .

She said they would have supported me if I did want a VBAC but as I didn't they are quite happy for me to have an elec c/s. So I filled in some forms and got a date - 9th July - in hosp at 7.30am and c/s will be done at 9am as long as there are no emergency c/ses to do.

Very relieved to have it sorted out. So relieved I had to buy a huge bag of sweets and scoff them on the way home

Whatshesaid - that's brilliant. Well done you for going in all prepared with your thoughts and reasons, and am glad the consultant was open to either path and allowed you to make the choice.

9th July - that's not long now! It's June already

Thanks everyone for the positive bed transition stories, I am keeping my fingers crossed!

Whatshesaid - yeay! So glad it's all sorted. Fabulous to have a date to look forward to, not long now at all.

Lovethesea - I can't believe it's June already. You and I are having babies this month! Not long for you at all now, how are you feeling about it?

I had a strange dream last night that I went in for my c-s and they decided to induce me instead (?!) I'm sure they don't do that, think my subconscious is just acting out my worst possible scenarios!

Hello everyone.

Its so strange how different they are in different hospitals. My previous births were in Slough, and they seemed caesarian crazy, and offered them to anyone who had any concerns. This time, my consultant was so reluctant to let me have one, and I ended up with 2 other doctors in the room all discussing 'tear prevention'. I wonder if some hospitals are concerned about getting their caesarian rates down, and others want to lower their tear rates.

Congratulations Litdog

Whatshesaid, your cs is just a few days after mine (5th July), but I haven't been told a time to come in. It is so strange knowing the day. I keep thinking about it in purely practical terms (thank god I can get my mum down in time to look after our dds, and there won't be any middle of the night calls to friends to come and babysit-worrying about this consumed my life when I was pg with dd2!) I am also scaring the bejesus out of myself by reading everything I can about caesarians, especially re breastfeeding, which went really badly the first two times.

Hope everyone is having a good half term.

Withor - is yours the 9th June? I know someone is the day before me .... what other dates are there lined up for June - anyone else?

I can't believe it's next Thursday for me ... right now I am only anxious about potentially going into labour before then. DD was 12 days late so I should be fine with a 39 week date but I'm a tad paranoid about it all going pear shaped again.

If I do think I have started I am fleeing to that hospital with my bag demanding my c-section asap. Slight technical hitch is what to do with DD who is 18 months, but if need be I would take her with me! DH works close normally so he would be able to get to us quickly and my MIL is coming to stay Monday so after that it's ok .... but DH has to go away now Thurs-Sat this week for an important work thing about 8 hours drive away so I will be a tad panicky about it all starting then.

I have dreams about going in in labour and being told there is no point to an emcs as I am already most of the way dilated etc. This time I will be very LOUD if need be but it doesn't stop the dreams - withor, am quite sure they won't be inducing you!

hazeyjane - I have read that the cue for breastmilk to start coming in is the placenta being removed, so while it can take a day or two with an elcs it wouldn't necessarily be slower than after a tough labour/vb. I think the first couple of days they only need the odd drop of colostrum here and there it is soooo rich and their tummy so tiny. I know some people just squeeze it onto their lips if they are all sleepy.

I had an awful time with bf with DD - stopped at 5 weeks after over 20 days of creams, drops and tablets couldn't shift deep breast tissue thrush (like hot needles stabbing into the breasts all the time and agony to feed, I was in tears constantly and dreaded DD waking to feed). I think my body was just too broken in too many places to heal anywhere. I felt so guilty about stopping when I had planned at least 6 months bf, but with hindsight DD and I both got a lot healthier and happier after we moved to formula.

I really hope to bf this time, I will be aiming for skin to skin in recovery etc and haven't bought any formula - BUT I am also going to take it a bit at a time and my initial aim this time is the first month. I don't want to have my expectations too high and be really disappointed/guilty again.

What are you hoping for hazeyjane?

Hazeyjane - glad your date is all sorted. I totally agree about different hospitals and different cultures, it's such a lottery.

Lovethesea - I'm not til 29th June, I've a feeling it's onebabyplease who is around the same time as you.

Re: breastfeeding, from what I've read it's the physical barriers after a c-s which can affect b/feeding rather than anything physiologically resulting from a c-s. Best way to combat this as you say lovethesea is plenty of skin to skin, especially in recovery and making sure you get help to feed as much as possible.

I'm a bit nervous about breastfeeding again. DD lost 20% of her birthweight in the first 6 days and was admitted to hospital and given formula. We did carry on breastfeeding til 6 months, with one bottle of formula a day (bit of a confidence thing on my part as I didn't trust myself to be able to feed her all by myself) but it was a long hard slog. Luckily I never had any mastitis-type issues as I think that would have stoppped us carrying on.

I think I read somewhere that a traumatic birth can have an impact on successful feeding. Hopefully a lovely calm section will give a much better chance than a horrible vb.

Well I can say that breastfeeding has been MUCH easier after elcs than after traumatic birth (once I got past the sore nipples stage!). DD is much easier to feed and I feel much more relaxed and up to it this time. I also read recently that forceps babies can find feeding and lying down painful in the early weeks, so I think that may have made things much harder for us first time around. We had a wonderful midwife during the cs who made sure we had skin to skin and established feeding within 20 minutes or so of her birth.

Ealey, that's brilliant to hear, so glad that feeding is going well for you.

I think DD's feeding definitely suffered because of the forceps - she comfort sucked all the time which I've heard can be to relieve pressure if the skull has been really squashed during birth. She was a lot better after seeing a cranial osteopath.

Lovethesea - it is me who is supposed to be on the 9th June - I was supposed to get my date confirmed last Weds by my consultant but as I was having another scan on the Thursday he wanted to wait to see the results of where my placenta was (low) before booking me in. I am quite freaked out that it is supposed to be next week & I don't have a confirmed date. To make matters worse my placenta has shifted & is only borderline to require a C-sec. I have been lurking on here nervously - I am PETRIFIED that after almost 9 months of being supportive they will say that they think I should try for a VB after all - I seriously think I would need to be sectioned in a mental hospital if anyone forced me to do that. Feel extremely unsettled.
So I have my final consultant appointment tomorrow & am pretty terrified, just want the date & time sorted so I can relax a bit - I also have the worry that I'm on daily injections & have to have not had one for 24 hrs before they can cut me open so desperately praying he doesn't come early. Feeling pretty stressed but hope that tomorrow I'll have good news. I also don't finish work till Friday & am knackered which isn't helping my anxiety!
Glad everyone else seems to be doing ok - wish me luck for tomorrow please. Thanks guys xx

Onebabyplease, what a worry for you. I really hope tomorrow goes ok for you, good luck and keep us posted x

Thanks Withor - really hope I'm freaking myself out over nothing - will let you know how I get on x

Onebaby - I am soooo sorry they are keeping you in such suspense. I am anxious enough without all your uncertainty. I think you have a good case for an elcs WHATEVER your placenta is up to. I would just sit there and sob and sob (wouldn't be able to stop myself to be honest). Your mental health is really important and to suddenly tell you to prepare for an unknown vb would be horrendous at this late stage.

Please let us know how you get on .... wish I could go along with you to argue your cause if need be! Is anyone going with you? Working must be so hard at this stage too. Hope you have a good supply of friends and chocolate to hand.

Withor - we need a list of dates! After I had posted I suddenly thought that you were actually the end of the month .... can't believe I will be able to tell you how mine has gone before you go in ...

That's a good idea lovethesea, will try and put one together. I've got a feeling Mookle will have a similar date to me but I'm not sure she gets her date til next week. Haven't seen her around for a while actually..

Was also thinking about Sophie, thought she had a consultant appt maybe last week but don't know how it went.

Thanks for the support Lovethesea - going on my own tomorrow (DH working unfortunately). Sure I will suitably fall apart without even having to think about it if they do say anything ridiculous.

Consultant has been lovely up to now & suggested elcs as soon as I mentioned my vb phobia so I'm hoping he is just as cool tomorrow, just freaking out that it's so late down the line & I'm not booked in yet. I hope I don't get a registrar too.

Very stressful all of this, isn't it. After over four years of trying & 3 miscarriages I was really hoping for a slightly more relaxing experience once I had a viable pregnancy!

Yeah, the working up to the last minute thing was a stupid move when I look back now - we only moved house 4 weeks ago too & are still unpacking after decorating the whole place ourselves - must be mad!!

Thanks for the kind words gang - hope I come back from the hospital bearing good news tomorrow - will let you know.
Thanks all xx

Good Luck tomorrow, Onebabyplease. I actually found it easier to talk to the consultant without my dh there. Although I was a shaky mess, I managed not to cry, but I think I found it easier to be completely honest about my mental state at the thought of any more damage. (It also helped to be clutching the printouts I had made from the Royal College of Obstetrics that LoveTheSea had linked me to - thankyou again!)

Good to hear positive b'feeding stories post c-section. I have an unfortunate complication of having suffered vasospasm of the nipple (connected to Raynauds Syndrome) when I tried to b'feed dd1 and 2. My nipples lose all colour, and become hyper sensitive, meaning that feeding was agony from start to finish (like having a hacksaw blade dragged across my nipples), during expressing, in the cold and in the shower when water hit them (my eyes are watering at the memory!)

With dd1 there were added problems like her being f'fed whilst I was in theatre being stitched up, an undiagnosed tongue tie and an initial poor latch leading to a lot of nipple damage.

I'm hoping that the warm weather and heat pads may help this time, and have been badgering my gp for a prescription of nipthedine, which can apparently help. But if it goes wrong again, I WILL NOT beat myself up about it, as long as I know I tried my best.