who's contemplating a home birth - want to discuss it?

[elliott]

Hi there
Noticed that quite a few of us who are now pregnant are planning or thinking about home birth - katherine, motherinferior, princesspeahead, www etc. I'm just 17 weeks now and very undecided about what to do, so would welcome hearing other's thoughts and views. What has motivated your choice? What are your greatest worries/fears/hopes? What is the deal in your area re midwife care - do you feel confident in your midwives? Lots of other thoughts but that should do for now...

Katherine, couldn't be bothered to read this paper here but the bottom line (no pun intended) seems to be that home birth is cheaper. So tell him to stick that in his pipe and smoke it. Your DH could just quote the study and sound impressively knowledgable Thanks Mears.

Katherine,
I don't know any figures, but I too find it hard to believe that hospital birth could be cheaper on that basis. The only saving would be on the midwives' salaries, which I don't expect are huge anyway.

Even if hospital births were cheaper, it's a very limited way of looking at it. I thought the whole point of a midwife was that she/he was 'with woman' - that must be much harder to do effectively if you are trying to tend to three women at once. Your accountant 'friend' seems to want to make things cheaper by taking away the most essential part of the service.

Thanks all, especially WWW - have forwarded link onto DH. Totally agree with all comments about prat in accounting. Thats why I wanted to blind him with some figures. Apparently his wife had a 56 hr labour as well so you think he'd be most aware of changing shifts etc.

Can't beleive I'll be 39 weeks tomorrow. Looks like this little one is going for the full run this time but lots of shoving today, quite painful and low down so you never know, ever hopeful.

WWW if its any small comfort my first labour was awful too. Took 3.5 hours but so incredibly painful I spent most of my time panicking I couldn't do it. Managed on entonox but only because I spent most of it onroute between hospitals. In contrast my 2nd (HB) was wonderful and didn't really hurt that much at all. So quite looking forward to this one although of course you never know. People keep telling me that 3rd ones mess about but I'm trying to ignore them

I'm not much of a poster so please excuse my erratic interjections...

But I have a question....
I've been planning a home-birth and am still very sure that's what I want, however there are some big changes happening on the home front and we may poss be moving a huge distance (see moving to Manchester thread).
Anyway we were thinking of waiting till after baby arrives (EDD 25th Sep) but in the last few days dh has been asking if it's poss to go before.

Has anyone had any experience of moving at this stage of pregnancy and would it mean losing my chances of a home birth...can't afford independent midwife etc, or am I crazy simply considering it......HELP!!!!!

Well rather you than me I have to say. I went into labour the day we moved house! Can you really face a move at this stage. I mean you've got the packing, the unpacking, the new surroundings (finding your way round new shops etc), suddenly leaving all your friends etc just when you are about to give birth etc.... Don't mean to be negative but it is a lot to take on.

That said I'm sure people do. You'd need to make sure your new home was ready for a HB and that you had all your care sorted out. I've been following your thread about Manchester (I live in the Peak District just outside) - here there is an excellent community MW team but less sure about in the city itself. You are thinking of moving to longsight yes? Why not do a bit of digging and phone some surgeries and try to get a feel for how the MWs would welcome and support you. If it sounds like you'd have a bit of a struggle then I'd stay put but if you are met with a positive response then you can set that side of things up before you even make the move.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Babies and children starting school are both great ways of meeting other mums and making friends so I think even if you wait until after the birth this is a very positive time to make the move.

Angelmother moved 3 weeks before my 'due date' and then went three weeks overdue. Made dh and friends move in a week before and paint everything white and strip out anything to do wiht previous owners. Then hired firm of industrial cleaners to come and clean EVERYTHING. Had my mum to help wiht unpacking but actually left most of it til well after birth . Packed separate and clearly labelled new baby stuff, emergency kitchen startup pack, clothes for me and kids and beds and bedding. Then unloaded just those things and got everything else piled up in spare room to unpack bit by bit when I had the enrergy. Contacted ante/post natal groups and make contact wiht other Mums and contacts local team of midwives to ensure they would support homebirth. Made one room a nest and then sat back and waited....
It's stressful but do-able and i wish you the very best of luck whatever you end up doing. I liked the idea of 'marking' the new house wiht a birth to make it our house. I seemd a good way to start our new life in a new town.

Thanks for the advice guys, it is a slightly crazy way of going about things.......we're meant to be nesting not packing

I think you're right Bubbly, the move would have to be planned like a military operation certainly but a good idea to set up nest in one room and wait.

My word Katherine you went into labour the day you moved, that sent shivers down my spine I must say.
I had thought of checking around a few gp's / midwifes etc in the area first, but not sure what I might come up against in Longsight.

It was so easy for me to get approved for home-birth here that when I hear of the fight some women have to put up for their rights, I dread having to go through that at this late stage................................the more I think I must be mad considering this

My dh is being a complete pain in the arse and I just want to get it all off my chest!
He's never been into the idea of a home birth, he thinks I will be safer and better cared for in hospital (yes I have quoted stats at him but he thinks they're all biased). Anyway, it came to a head last night, I had got 2 books out of the library about home birth - the only planning I have done at this stage and I'm 21 weeks. I wanted to discuss the issues they raised with him and also his role as my birthing partner.

What I found out was that his idea of being my birthing partner was to look after dd and go downstairs to watch telly if it got too much. He doesn't want to get hands-on at all, and is refusing to read about the labour process. He says we've done it before and we should just wait and see what happens on the day, he reckons I could be killed by a bus tomorrow so there is no point in planning for the birth at this stage. He won't go to any ante-natal refresher classes with me, he didn't go to the scan and I just feel that he is happy doing nothing at all this time round.

I want someone on the day who knows what labour is and why certain things are happening, so they can reassure me - he says that's the midwives job. I want him to practise positions with me and breathing - he says we'll do what comes naturally on the day. Every time I mention something he comes back with a negative. He uses words such as 'horrific' when describing the birth, which doesn't help me at all. He dismissed the idea of a birthing pool outright, and doesn't want me to get a doula in case he gets pushed out. But the way things are going, he'll be lucky if he's there at the birth at all. He accused me of being 'obssessed'.

I'm worried that he's going to be more of a hinderance on the day than a help. He doesn't want to see anything that goes on down there, he wants me fully clothed at all times and doesn't want me embarrassing him. So I'll be spending all my time worrying about what he's thinking rather than just getting on with the job!

I feel really upset and a little betrayed by the man who is supposed to be my best friend and support. Does he really think I want to give birth? That I want the midwife poking around down there? The fact is that I have no choice in the matter, and I think the least that he can do is to support me in any decision I make, even if he feels embarrassed by it. I feel that I'm banging my head on a brick wall. His arguments are just so negative and out of order that any rational argument I have is wasted. How can I make him see sense?

rhubarb - there are really two issues here, i think. The first is that you are getting no support at a time when you really need to be able to try to think positive and mentally prepare yourself, and the second is that your partner is not behaving in the manner you expect him to.

Can I just say about your partner - if he is not comfortable to be involved in the birth, might it not just be better to do it without him? There is a lot of pressure from society nowadays which says that men and women should want to do this together, which I don't think is fair on either party. A partner is often NOT the best person to support a woman in labour anyway - they have all sorts of baggage of their own which can often intrude and be unhelpful (like the fact they hate being powerless and unable to "sort out" the fact that the woman they love is in pain". That said, some men ARE great. You need to try to sit down and talk to him about this - does he want to be involved or doesn't he? If you can bear it, can you allow him to make his own decision on this, and not pressure him into saying he wants to be with you, while really he will be resenting it? It might be worth telling him what you would expect of him if he was there as a supportive partner, so that he can decide how involved he wants to be.

Of course, if he IS unwilling to be supportive, then you do need to find someone who will be. A doula can be a great help - and if he is unwilling to be there for you, and between you you decide that he needn't be, then at that point hopefully he will no longer feel that a doula would be a problem for him. Or do you have any close friends, family who might come and support you? This is often much better.

As for being obsessive - so what? It is natural to become quite focused on this sort of thing (I get the same accusations from my dh) and if it helps you it is not a problem. I think the problem is that almost all men ARE a lot less interested than we are - they are not going to have to do it, and to them it is not something that is in the process of happening now, it is something that won't happen for another x months, so why bother now? I don't know if I am the right person to help here, because I have a husband who is almost completely uninterested in pregnancy and birth (and who didn't even come to the scan/antenatal classes first time round, let alone second time(although I have done neither myself this time either)) and I am just accepting that that is the way he wants to be. I know he will be there when the baby is here - the anticipation is just completely lost on him, and he will be as much use as a pork sausage at a bar mitzvah during the actual labour and birth. So I don't bother with him, except to keep him informed as a courtesy. HOWEVER, I do have wonderful support from a couple of lovely independant midwives (one of whom was my Year Tutor at university!) which makes it a lot easier for me. So you do need someone, and you need to be able to make him understand this - that if it is not going to be him it will have to be someone.

Have I actually said anything helpful at all, or have I just waffled aimlessly for a long time? I suspect the later.... I do hope you can talk to him about it, it is something you need to get sorted out.

Agree with Oakmaiden. If you can afford it, get a Doula & Tell your partner he has the very important job of keeping your DD happy and occupied during the labour/birth while she can't get full access to her Mummy.

Well, unfortunately I can't afford a doula. And dh has said that he does want to be there at the birth, but with a doula around he would feel pushed out and he thinks that the less people in the room with us the better. His ideal is the midwife, himself and me. The midwife doing all the work, supporting, etc, and him mopping my brow occasionally, doing away when it gets a bit much and then coming back in when the baby is born.

To be honest, I don't really want a doula there either, I want my dh there! It is an undignified process, and not something I want to share with others! I trust my dh, we made this baby together, and above all I want his support and his encouragement on the day. I would be heartbroken if he wasn't there. I want it to be special for both of us. Maybe I'm being too romantic, too idealistic. But I'd like to think that if roles were reversed I'd be there for him, even if I didn't want to be, because I love him and that's what you do for people you love isn't it?

From your comments lower down it sounds like your DH was a bit upset by your last birth - maybe this is why he keeps talking about leaving. But he is obviously keen to be with you as well. I think you need to have a good talk about last time and how he feels. But at the end of the day it is you giving birth and not him - of course you want him to be part of it but he is there to support you. Its not his event IYSWIM.

I'm not sure how useful I can be, Rhubarb - and I really want to be! - but my dp was almost equally appalling at this stage; I did get him to come to a few antenatal classes the first time round, but second pregnancy our exchanges were limited to rancorous conversations about how dangerous a home birth might be, how old I was, how he'd go along with it if I insisted but how it was far too early to do anything like consider names or get clothes together let alone read up on childbirth again (I think I was about 35 weeks by this point!) and I could hire a birthing pool but it was totally up to me, etc etc etc. He was seriously unhappy about the whole thing, and I got to the point where I too realised it wasn't worth trying to convince him - I just went ahead with it (crossly, and feeling unsupported) on the basis that he wasn't giving birth, dammit, I was.

In the event he was there, he was supportive, he didn't want to cut the cord but he is very pleased I insisted on staying at home.

Your situation may of course be very different (to do dp credit he did pick up the pool - after I'd sorted it out, paid for it, etc, and did inflate it and do all that admin on the day. He never got round to reading up, though - he might have done if I'd gone overdue but since I had the baby early he just wurbled around on the day!). I suppose what I'm saying is, like the others: it's your body, and your decision. I really know what you mean about not feeling sufficiently supported, and I do think he's trying to have it both ways if he doesn't want another person but won't do what's necessary.

Would you get two midwives, at least? I'd have thought so.

Oh, and an anecdote which MIGHT cheer you up - a friend from my first antenatal group had one of those rare husbands who do read up, go to all the classes, practise breathing and positions, generally make you wonder why you drew such a drongo in life's lottery of partners...and then when she transferred to hospital after FOUR DAYS in labour he sat in the corner and sulked saying 'I don't feel part of this birth'!

Rhubarb - I won't try to change your mind but I do want to clarify that a doula does NOT replace a husband!!!! The vast majority of cases fathers are there with doulas. IME doulas actually help fathers enjoy the birth far more as they have someone there who can explain things, suggest things, reassure, do all the massage that's needed and take some of the pressure and anxiety off. That is not always possible with a MW either... as they do change shifts and they have their own work to do - a doula, a MW and a husband ALL have different roles... to quote a leading US doula, Penny Simkin :
"In my opinion midwives' ability to proved continuous emotional care is super ceded by the need to ensure the physical welfare of the mother and the baby. There are some situations in which the mother greatly needs emotional support, but her midwife is hardly able to provide it. For example, if a problem develops during a homebirth and transfer to the hospital is necessary, the midwife has to call the ambulance and the labour ward. She has to get her equipment together, update her paperwork... all this time, the woman and her partner may be worried or frightened. Some have told me they felt abandoned. The doula can calm them and help them feel safe while the midwife arranges the transfer...
Another example is the long labour. When exhaustion sets in, the doula can be part of the ritual, and stay with the woman for many hours. Nurses and midwives need to take breaks and leave at the end of their shift... This can be an unpleasant moment for the woman who has to adjust to a new personality at a vulnerable time. So when a midwife leaves, the doula stays and the mother is less disappointed by this departure. "

I just wanted to clarify what is a doula... and I appreciate that it's not for everyone - neither is a home birth or a ceasarean!

Pupuce, I know that a doula does all these things, but convincing dh of that might be like climbing Ben Nevis in your slippers! If I could afford one, I would give it serious consideration, but I know it's not an option for us. My sister has offered to be there, but I'd feel odd giving birth with her around! I don't mean to knock doulas at all, sorry if I did. I think you're great (creep creep!)

My sister did point out that he probably feels cornered by my assertions and a little inadequate. I should simply trust him, I know he will do all he can on the day. I was probably too confrontational with him.
Motherinferior, our dh's sound very alike! I know that he's not keen, but at the end of the day he will support my decisions 100% and I know that despite his threats, he won't go off to watch telly, he'll be there and it'll be fine. I just needed him to say things like "Don't worry, all will be well, I'll be there for you, etc". But men never say what they're supposed to do they?

Oh and it didn't help when he said that he'd been there at the delivery of loads of calves so he knows what he's doing!!!!!

Rhubarb "But men never say what they're supposed to do they?" They do sometimes, if you tell them beforehand what it is you want them to say!

Rhubarb - that's great
BTW you don't have to pay for a doula.. you can barter... !!! There is another mumsnetter who is doing just that !

And quite honestly, I'd rather have a partner who's a committed parent - LOL about the calves though!

watch it, Rhubarb - I think calves come out feet first!

Rhubarb - I haven't read the whole thraed so apologies if covering ground already covered. My husband was very anti the idea of a home birth for ds2 and became very negative about the whole labour process. The negativity was a product of his insecurities around what would happen if anything happened to either the baby or me in the event of an emergency. Our midwife came to our house one evening and allowed herself to be bombarded by dh about processes, procedures and reality for about two hours before he reluctantly allowed us to consider a home-birth. If it is any help, he has written an article about it the local branch NCT newsletter. If you would like a copy then e-mail me via tech and I will forward it to you.

Angel mouse - this time last year we had the choice of moving when 8 months pregnant or one month after the birth. After investigating it, a home birth would have been possible in our new home. But we still opted to move with the baby rather than the bump as we were worried about what would happen if the house move was delayed due to any unforseen complications. I couldn't face the thought of anything going wrong and ending up in my in-laws or temporary accommodation. Think carefully about the pros and cons of each option and be prepared to be flexible. Good luck with the move.

Rhubarb, thinking of you.

Katherine, this is probably too late now, but might be useful to wave at your dh's accounts chappie. Andrea Robertson is a childbirth educator in Australia, who travels often to the UK. I enjoy reading her diary because she's quite forthright in her views. The diary entry for 1 August 2003 mentions a recently published study in the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology that looks at the costs of interventions. Andrea also quotes an editorial in the same issue that sounds interesting - the quote suggests that midwives are actually a low-cost alternative to medicalised birth.

You can look at the abstract of the article [Tracy and Tracy, BJOG, 2003, volume 110, issue 8, page 717] at BJOG (follow the link to 'Table of Contents and Abstracts' halfway down the page, then look in 'Volume 110, issue 8' - it's the first article) but have to pay for the full text. However, the conclusion is quoted at the bottom of the abstract page. Although it doesn't specifically compare home birth with hospital birth, the intervention rate is lower with home birth.

Eyelash, I've asked Mumsnet to pass my email address on. I would love a copy of that article, I think dh would find it really useful! As someone else pointed out, I've been talking about it for ages now, but who can he talk to about it all? Men just don't discuss that type of thing do they? And he doesn't know many fathers, all our friends are still single!

As for the calves bit, apparently they often tie a rope around the calf and haul it out that way - lovely! But as I pointed out, cows have home births don't they!