Natural Birth? You can do it!

[boogs]

My sisters' due in two days and it's got me thinking about my labour with dd. OK I'm not trying to blow my own trumpet here, I just want to pass on some info and knowledge I think all women should be aware of. Talking to friends/family who've had babies, it seems that alot of them get caught up in all the 'labour aid' possibilities. There's so much these days that can help us in labour, epidurals, gas'n'air, pethidine, etc, etc, that it's almost seen as inevitable to 'take' something during labour.
After having dd, and relaying my birth story I found that people were almost suprised that I didn't take any drugs, in any form, like 'how did she do it?' During the first stage I was at home, on a lovely shagpile rug on the floor, propped up against the bed. Dh gave me honey and hot water to keep me going cause I was there for a few hours. Each time a contraction came I got up on my knees and leant forward on the bed and got my lower back rubbed by dh. i was like this for hours, and I was really comfortable, and the pain was only bad when the contractions peaked. But when they died down, it was almost pleasurable. When I got to the hospital I was 9cm, and two hours later she was born. I was only pushing for 25 minutes. The crowning was really painful, like fire, but I didn't tear thank god!
I've heard so many scare stories about women who've had an epidural early on, which has lead to other forms of 'painkillers' and ended up having c/s, because they were so drugged up and numbed that they had no strength to finish.
My point is that a natural birth is attainable for any woman, even if you have a low pain threshold. Labour is painful no matter what, and I reckon it's better to feel the pain and control it than to have some drugs control it for you.
'New Active Birth' by Janet Balaskas is a brilliant book that helped me achieve childbirth without intervention and drugs which sometimes make things harder than they have to be.
It makes me feel sad that so many women opt for ceasarians without even trying to do it naturally which is better for mother and child. I'm not putting anyone down for any intervention they decide to take on, of course it's each woman's choice but I think more women should have faith and confidence in their natural ability to give birth.
Raspberry leaf tea, perenial massage, yoga, deep breathing, back massage, upright positions (instead of lying back on the bed in a pasive position) are all natural ways of controlling the pain of labour.
I hope this doesn't sound like a lecture, but I know I've given my sister confidence to try it naturally, and wanted to give anyone who's in doubt or scared some encouragement and advice.
Good luck to everyone who's expecting, and just trust in yourself!

I knew well before the birth of my twin DS's that I would need alot of intervention.
I had , had two retinal reattachment operations some years previously, and was told by my consultant(an expert in multiple births), that if I wanted a vaginal birth, that there was NO WAY they would let me push AT ALL, everything would HAVE to be suction,and/or foceps, as there was a substantial risk of me loosing even more sight( I'm already almost blind in my left eye).He also warned me that they may not be able to deliver both babies this way, and there was a posibility that a C/S would have to be done anyway.
It was my choice, I did really want to go ahead anyway, but as my Mum pointed out, what's the point of having two beautiful babies, if you can't see them or look after them.
It was an easy choice to make I went for a planned section. I felt then, and still feel no guilt, I did what was best for me and my babies.
As it happened, my waters broke and I went into labour early at 36 weeks, there were no neonatal cots available at my hospital so I was transfered, while in labour, to another hospital,I then had to wait as some emergency sections had come in. I was offered drugs, but as I knew I would be having an epidural, I wanted to just leave it at that.I even refused gas & air as it made me feel sick. I managed the pain very well, and have always felt I could have done it naturally, if the circumstances were different.
The section was no problem at all, I was up and walking(miles) to the neonatal unit, the next day.
My babies successfully breastfead, and we were out in about 5 days.
Considering the amount of intervention I had, my birth experience was not an unpleasent one, and I feel no guilt at all. I'm completely happy that I made the right chice given the circumstances.
Sorry if this is a bit long, but you find people who had natural births, droneing on all the time !!!

SueW - good point. If we don't look into possible causes (however small) then we won't learn and witholding information to stop people feeling guilty isn't the right way forward as it spoils it for others. I think mums (and dads) are far too quick to feel guilt. More often than not it is lack of knowledge or just a case of taking the lesser of several evils, not just a simple case of being told X and then not doing it. Even if this is the case then we still need to be treated as intelligent beings and given proper information. For example I probably still would have taken the morphine injection for ds's birth even if I'd known it may affect his subsequent breastfeeding. I'd have felt that I was taking a considered risk. And it would have allowed me to stave off the army of midwives with bottles as I would have known that it may take a day or two for the effects to wear off. None of us live in a perfect world or have the ideal birth situation and some of us are going to have 'better' births than others. Some of us will be 'stronger' in that they can withstand more pain or have bodies more suited to giving birth - it doesn't make them a better person they are just lucky.

Ghosty, I'm not in the least offended or upset by what you said. I just feel quite strongly that studies should be carried out and that it would be wonderful to find out why the human race seems to be destroying itself.

There's a piece in the AIMS article I find annoying:

"Rates of anorexia, autism, drug addiction and violent criminality are all rising rapidly and no-one knows why, although theories abound. At the same time, rates of birth intervention are rising rapdily, and our doctors and midwives turn a blind eye to data which suggest there is a need to look beyond the short-term consequences of their practice."

The reason I object is that although there may be some links between birth interventions and some of the above, there are many other factors to be taken into consideration and very few studies adjust properly for social status and other factors which can intervene between a mother being given pethidine during labour and her 17yo becoming a heroin addict....

Our lives are so different now to how they were even 30 years ago. How many of us give our bedding a proper daily airing? When we lived in Holland, the maid who cleaned our place hung our duvet out every day. How many of us open our double-glazed windows every day and let the air blow through our houses?

I am also very sorry my DD has her condition. I'm even more sorry that it is, unfortunately, the sort of problem that is never going to be worth anything to the drug companies so the amount of money pumped into researching it is never going to be much

AIMS is a non-mainstream campaigning group (obsessively pro-unmedicated birth IMO and violently against any form of intervention or pain relief) with a very big agenda of its own so I would take its conclusions with a big pinch of salt, personally. It is not unbiased at all.

I am not going into enter a debate about Aloha's views on AIMS.... and Scummy when you write this :
"information based on incomplete, badly designed or very small studies and scare the proverbial out of people"
I agree BUT for once I'd say that Michel Odent is the FIRST to not use or re-tain studies which are NOT significant in terms of size and thorough in terms of methodology. I have seen him discount many studies because of those 2 points... or he will himslef criticise a study that he would use by cautioning the reader not to jump to such and such conclusion....

Anyway these are my thoughts.

But it is interesting to read the AIMS journal aloha and compare it with the others that I take - Practising Midwife, British Journal Of Midwifery, the NCT's member publication and its specialist work publications, MIDIRS midwifery digest.

Just as it gives a broader range of opinions to read comments from people on mumsnet, the NCT list and uk.people.parents(.pregnancy) as well as listening to my real life friends and midwives and mums and doulas and an obstetric anaesthetist on the midwifery email list.

I also read a fair range of pregnancy and parenting magazines too although I tend not to buy those!

I guess I just like to look at as much as possible. And since I'm training to be an antenatal teacher, it's probably for the best.

Hey well you know, what we should really be concerned with here is that every woman is given a choice. If she wants an epidural (and who can blame her????) then she should have an epidural without being given a lecture on it. And if she wants a natural birth, then she is entitled to have one without stressed out midwives pressurising her to have more pain-relief. All Doctors, nurses and midwives should receive more training (IMO) on respecting their patients wishes and intelligence. If a woman was given more control over her birth, then I don't think there would be too much need for any intervention or pain-relief. It's when the control is taken away from the woman that problems arise.

Of course there will be times when the midwives really do know best, and hasty decisions need to be made, but I really don't think women are consulted enough about giving birth. I bet when a midwife is giving birth it's all a very different story!

Pupuce - respect!

I was in an NCT class with a midwife who was having her first child. She said it was horrible and couldn't believe it hurt so much - maybe she'd only looked after very lucky women or maybe it's hard to imagine the pain even when you're looking at women in the throes of it.

Completely agree Rhubarb
I would only add one thing..... we have to realise that ALL our choices have consequences.... including being stubborn about wanting a natural childbirth when some signs are not good and having an ill baby afterwards...

This is timely !

news.independent.co.uk/uk/health/story.jsp?story=407865

Women who give birth 'naturally' now in the minority
By Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor
20 May 2003

Normal childbirth has for the first time become a minority activity in
Britain, marking a new milestone in the history of medicine.

Figures published by the Department of Health show that less than half of
new mothers - 45 per cent - had a spontaneous labour and delivery in 2001-02
with the remainder experiencing some kind of medical intervention. This
compares with 53 per cent who had a normal birth in the last set of
statistics covering the three years from 1998-99 to 2000-01.

The finding means that a spontaneous delivery can no longer be regarded as
the "normal", or majority, way of giving birth. Medical interventions during
labour and birth, include induction to start the process, anaesthesia
(epidural or general), the use of instruments such as forceps or Caesarean
section. Ordinary pain relief, given by a midwife, and including pethidine
and gas and air is not counted as a medical intervention.

Intervention in childbirth has caused increasing disquiet among patient
groups, medical organisations and politicians. The biggest single change of
the last 20 years has been the doubling in the Caesarean rate, driven by
fears of litigation and a demand from some women for what they see as a
convenient, pain-free method of delivery.

The latest figures show that in 2001-02, the Caesarean rate for England was
22.3 per cent compared with 9 per cent in 1980. The rate is continuing to
rise despite efforts to curb it.

The Royal College of Obstetricians conducted a national survey of Caesareans
in response to the soaring popularity of the operation. It showed that half
of consultant obstetricians were worried that the rate was too high in their
own units. One private maternity unit had a rate of 56 per cent.

The National Institute for Clinical Excellence is drawing up guidelines for
Caesareans. They will set out the circumstances in which a Caesarean should
be performed but are expected to say that the woman's choices should be
taken into account.

The Royal College said the trend towards elective Caesareans among
middle-class women was accelerating. Peter Bowen Simpkins, vice-president of
the college, said: "We feel female pressure for Caesareans is becoming more
and more intense. Women are asking for it. They don't want a tear or the
other side effects of a normal delivery and they are opting for a Caesarean.
Professional women are keen on saying they want to come in on a particular
date to have their baby."

"With the new spinal anaesthetics there is now wonderful analgesia, the
women have no stitches and Caesareans are seen as safer. But the truth is
there is unquestionably higher morbidity with Caesareans."

Mr Bowen Simpkins said it was "distressing" that the proportion of women
having normal deliveries had fallen to 45 per cent. He blamed a shortage of
senior consultants which meant women in labour were left in the charge of
junior doctors who were less experienced and likely to intervene sooner to
prevent things going wrong. "We are facing huge problems on recruitment," he
said.

Maggie Blott, a consultant obstetrician, said: "Midwives are leaving because
they are worried about the medicalisation of labour ... We need to put our
house in order and recruit more midwives so women have one-to-one care. Mary
Newburn, of the National Childbirth Trust, said the increasing rate of
intervention was "disappointing but not surprising" and raised questions
about the way labour was managed.

news.independent.co.uk/uk/health/story.jsp?story=407865

Women who give birth 'naturally' now in the minority
By Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor
20 May 2003

Normal childbirth has for the first time become a minority activity in
Britain, marking a new milestone in the history of medicine.

Figures published by the Department of Health show that less than half of
new mothers - 45 per cent - had a spontaneous labour and delivery in 2001-02
with the remainder experiencing some kind of medical intervention. This
compares with 53 per cent who had a normal birth in the last set of
statistics covering the three years from 1998-99 to 2000-01.

The finding means that a spontaneous delivery can no longer be regarded as
the "normal", or majority, way of giving birth. Medical interventions during
labour and birth, include induction to start the process, anaesthesia
(epidural or general), the use of instruments such as forceps or Caesarean
section. Ordinary pain relief, given by a midwife, and including pethidine
and gas and air is not counted as a medical intervention.

Intervention in childbirth has caused increasing disquiet among patient
groups, medical organisations and politicians. The biggest single change of
the last 20 years has been the doubling in the Caesarean rate, driven by
fears of litigation and a demand from some women for what they see as a
convenient, pain-free method of delivery.

The latest figures show that in 2001-02, the Caesarean rate for England was
22.3 per cent compared with 9 per cent in 1980. The rate is continuing to
rise despite efforts to curb it.

The Royal College of Obstetricians conducted a national survey of Caesareans
in response to the soaring popularity of the operation. It showed that half
of consultant obstetricians were worried that the rate was too high in their
own units. One private maternity unit had a rate of 56 per cent.

The National Institute for Clinical Excellence is drawing up guidelines for
Caesareans. They will set out the circumstances in which a Caesarean should
be performed but are expected to say that the woman's choices should be
taken into account.

The Royal College said the trend towards elective Caesareans among
middle-class women was accelerating. Peter Bowen Simpkins, vice-president of
the college, said: "We feel female pressure for Caesareans is becoming more
and more intense. Women are asking for it. They don't want a tear or the
other side effects of a normal delivery and they are opting for a Caesarean.
Professional women are keen on saying they want to come in on a particular
date to have their baby."

"With the new spinal anaesthetics there is now wonderful analgesia, the
women have no stitches and Caesareans are seen as safer. But the truth is
there is unquestionably higher morbidity with Caesareans."

Mr Bowen Simpkins said it was "distressing" that the proportion of women
having normal deliveries had fallen to 45 per cent. He blamed a shortage of
senior consultants which meant women in labour were left in the charge of
junior doctors who were less experienced and likely to intervene sooner to
prevent things going wrong. "We are facing huge problems on recruitment," he
said.

Maggie Blott, a consultant obstetrician, said: "Midwives are leaving because
they are worried about the medicalisation of labour ... We need to put our
house in order and recruit more midwives so women have one-to-one care. Mary
Newburn, of the National Childbirth Trust, said the increasing rate of
intervention was "disappointing but not surprising" and raised questions
about the way labour was managed.

I'm shocked by this, thanks Pupuce.

read this thread yesterday and went away thinking i didn't have anything to contribute as i have not yet gone through labour - then realised that actually just having read this thread with all the incredibly powerful information in it - from the fantastic (almost perfect) experience of Boogs to some of the more scary and painful experiences of others, it has really given me something to think about. Given that I am due in under three weeks it hasn't scared or worried me but made me realise that everybody's experience is unique and that i can only be as mentally prepared as possible.

So a big thank you to all you contributed to this and especially to boogs for starting it off.

Good luck AliP and I am looking forward to reading your stopry

BTW - I heard something quite good by a mum this week (she is due any day) and she really does not want an epidural (she has had babies before) and she says that she always tells herself : OK I can go on for another 10 minutes.... and I think that's an excellent approach as you may think "I am not dilating very quickly and it might take me another 10 hours" or it may NOT.... things can suddenly progress quickly too.... try to relax and enjoy.... your baby is being born

Glad to hear you gained some useful insight from this thread. I certainly did. It's nice to get feedback after the initial reactions, and to know that you're feeling positive about your pending labour. I want to wish you lots of luck, and hope you have a good experience of it. All the best, and let us know how it went.

Just like to say thanks to everyone who's shared their experiences in this thread - as someone who's due really soon, it's good to know that some people can have really good experiences, even if not everyone does. Also picked up a lot of good tips for coping with labour - I really like the "just ten more minutes" one! Hopefully, in a few days I'll know for myself how it feels . . .