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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Natural Birth? You can do it!

191 replies

boogs · 12/05/2003 14:42

My sisters' due in two days and it's got me thinking about my labour with dd. OK I'm not trying to blow my own trumpet here, I just want to pass on some info and knowledge I think all women should be aware of. Talking to friends/family who've had babies, it seems that alot of them get caught up in all the 'labour aid' possibilities. There's so much these days that can help us in labour, epidurals, gas'n'air, pethidine, etc, etc, that it's almost seen as inevitable to 'take' something during labour.
After having dd, and relaying my birth story I found that people were almost suprised that I didn't take any drugs, in any form, like 'how did she do it?' During the first stage I was at home, on a lovely shagpile rug on the floor, propped up against the bed. Dh gave me honey and hot water to keep me going cause I was there for a few hours. Each time a contraction came I got up on my knees and leant forward on the bed and got my lower back rubbed by dh. i was like this for hours, and I was really comfortable, and the pain was only bad when the contractions peaked. But when they died down, it was almost pleasurable. When I got to the hospital I was 9cm, and two hours later she was born. I was only pushing for 25 minutes. The crowning was really painful, like fire, but I didn't tear thank god!
I've heard so many scare stories about women who've had an epidural early on, which has lead to other forms of 'painkillers' and ended up having c/s, because they were so drugged up and numbed that they had no strength to finish.
My point is that a natural birth is attainable for any woman, even if you have a low pain threshold. Labour is painful no matter what, and I reckon it's better to feel the pain and control it than to have some drugs control it for you.
'New Active Birth' by Janet Balaskas is a brilliant book that helped me achieve childbirth without intervention and drugs which sometimes make things harder than they have to be.
It makes me feel sad that so many women opt for ceasarians without even trying to do it naturally which is better for mother and child. I'm not putting anyone down for any intervention they decide to take on, of course it's each woman's choice but I think more women should have faith and confidence in their natural ability to give birth.
Raspberry leaf tea, perenial massage, yoga, deep breathing, back massage, upright positions (instead of lying back on the bed in a pasive position) are all natural ways of controlling the pain of labour.
I hope this doesn't sound like a lecture, but I know I've given my sister confidence to try it naturally, and wanted to give anyone who's in doubt or scared some encouragement and advice.
Good luck to everyone who's expecting, and just trust in yourself!

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Dahlia · 12/05/2003 17:09

I'd just like to say that I'm due in 5 weeks and absolutely cacking it and will have whatever drugs are on offer!! Had a ventouse delivery with dd which was really horrendous but unavoidable, and am going to try really really hard this time to get by on just gas and air and be calmer, more focussed, more assertive etc etc. If I can manage with no pain relief then I will be really chuffed with myself, but I just want to get through it in one piece. I see your point Boogs, but I also see everyone else's. A rather emotive subject. I just thank god that someone invented gas and air!!

Lil · 12/05/2003 17:11

yes boogs we can see where you're coming from...and I'm sure M2T will also give you full marks for not flouncing off the site after all our 'feedback'

boogs · 12/05/2003 17:13

Wiltshirelass, I say so because I've spoken to many woman who've had intervention, and wished they hadn't. This suggests that women aren't being told the whole story.

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boogs · 12/05/2003 17:21

I'm glad someone see's my point!
I hope it all goes well for you in 5 weeks Dahlia, and that I haven't made the decision making any worse than it already is.

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ThomCat · 12/05/2003 17:42

boogs - blimey you started something there girl!!
Just want to say your birth sounded identical to mine!! I feel incredibly lucky that my DD was in a position and small enough for me to get through the 6 hour labour (from 1st mild contraction to holding her) without drugs. I was glad I didn't have to go through it, but in hindsight gutted I didn't try the gas & air, it's supposed to be great stuff!!!!
I do kinda take your point, although I think maybe you just came out a bit 'holier than thou'type of thing. I thought it a bit odd at the hospital tour I went on that all the other mums had already decided they wanted to have epidurals! I just thought it was a shame they were going in with that attitude, but each to their own. I knew i wanted, if I was able, to have as a natural birth as nature allowed!

judetheobscure · 12/05/2003 18:05

Many inductions are unnecessary. For a start, term is regarded as 40 weeks when in fact it is something like 40+5. Then, full term is considered to start at 37 weeks. On that basis, one could say that it would extend an equal time past, ie 43 weeks +.

My hospital books women in for induction at 41 weeks. Goes into fits if women resist until 42 weeks. Yet other hospitals don't induce until 42 weeks and some even 43 weeks I believe.

That sounds to me like an awful lot of unnecessary inductions - especially when you consider induction often leads to more painful labour - then epidural - ventouse - perhaps emergency cs.

It is natural for some women to give birth at 42 weeks. If medical staff are worried about the capabality of the placenta, then they can monitor the situation. They don't need to induce.

I personally cannot understand why anyone would choose to be induced when armed with all the facts, unless there was a problem with placental insufficiency or some other real problem.

Could someone else argue the epidural one please? Don't want to take over the thread

boogs · 12/05/2003 18:13

Thanks Lil and Mum2toby! I really, really wish I'd kept it to myself now! But I made my bed.....

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SoupDragon · 12/05/2003 18:20

The only bit I took issue with was the implication that everyone can do it and also (now I've read it again) the bit about mothers who "ceasarians without even trying to do it naturally which is better for mother and child". Sadly it's not always better for mother and child at all. Sometimes nature needs a helping hand, sometimes it's one that's wielding a scalpel

Anyway, welcome to Mumsnet - you're right not to let this put you off! Come along and post on the Supermarket thread too or maybe a Gina Ford one!

boogs · 12/05/2003 18:33

There are alot of stories where women have needed/wanted intervention, which is fine and good, and they should be proud of themselves and their babies, and they did a great job.

I think it's also important that women who haven't had intervention to be able to speak out, and relay their stories of drinking raspberry tea, massage, etc.

Finger poised on 'post message', am I digging a deeper grave?

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SoupDragon · 12/05/2003 18:40

Dig away, Boogs! Mumsnet would be seriously dull without a good debate every now and then.

I did the raspberry tea thing with DS1 (24 hour labour, goodness knows how many hours of pushing, ventouse, episiotomy & 3rd degree tear). I did it again with DS2 simply through the fear of what it might have been like without it That time I also did OFP (successfully) and perineal massage (unsuccessfully). Not sure what to try for my imaginary 3rd child...

bozzy · 12/05/2003 19:06

Boogs, I was inspired by your posting as I have just got back from a long discussion from a doula who is going to be at my birth. She told me that many births are induced because the dates are taken from the date of last period rather than conception date (which is not always possible of course) so in fact I am probably due a week later than predicted. She thinks that hospitals are only too keen to give inductions (St Georges hospital in London are just introducing a policy to reduce caesareans by not inducing so soon) and she told me it was my right to refuse an induction if I wished (to be honest, I would have normally just have taken the hospital's adice rather than refuse) and that I could ask for a scan which makes sure there is still plenty of fluid for the baby and it is not in any danger. Inducing a baby causes a lot of caesareans which would probably not normally be necessary and a close friend of mine resents being made to induce and have a caesarean. I really believe that home births in familiar environments certainly help women to have an easier birth and as I am only 15 mins away from hospital, I'm tempted to have one. My Mum had 4 home births with no drugs and no stitches , she was 32 when she had her first and 40 when she had me. She is tiny with non "child-bearing" hips but I really feel there is something to be said about her being at home to have her children.
I also agree that a lot of us are misinformed about epidurals etc. All my friends told me that I must have one so I've always presumed that I would, not giving the natural birth a second thought. I am certainly very open to having pain relief should the need arise....I'm due in 3 months so will keep you posted!!

I also agree that natural births are not for everyone - everyone is different and the most important thing is that the baby is born without any undue stress.

Wish me luck!!

beetroot · 12/05/2003 19:42

This reply has been deleted

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jackiej · 12/05/2003 19:47

Hi I have just joined and after reading all the below had to add my two pennies worth. My first baby is due in July and thought 'Boogs' comments were very positive. Certainly, research suggests that good outcomes occur in women who are well informed about labour and are realistic IT WILL HURT! There are a number of women who will need assistance and intervention through no fault of their own. I think that perineal massage and Rasberry leaf tea are all positive ways of approaching labour. Certainly the CS rate has increased and this is partly due to women demanding CS but again this is their choice, most NHS hospitals are trying to reduce the CS rate. In spain most if not all ANC is private and a friend told me about an advert she had seen which read 'Keep your vagina honeymoon fresh book your CS today' Certainly, I hope for a quickish healthly birth and would rather stay at home as long as possible but time will tell!! I think all your comments are valuble and that is why childbirth is so amazing as we are all doing the same thing but each persons experience is so different.

WideWebWitch · 12/05/2003 19:57

Boogs, sorry I sounded like such a witch. Everyone is entitled to their point of view and I do actually approve of Janet Balaskas, Sheila Kitzinger etc and their 'natural as possible' approaches to childbirth, which is after all, a normal event. I also agree that childbirth is often over medicalised. I suppose I was taking issue with your 'attainable for any woman' sentence since I don't think it's fair that women should feel they've failed in any way through having necessary (and sometimes livesaving) intervention. I do appreciate that not all intervention is necessary though, completely. Anyway, apologies for sounding grumpy. (I had a home birth with just gas and air btw and may well do the same this time.)

nerdgirl · 12/05/2003 20:27

Boogs, I'm reluctant to criticise because I admire you for being brave enough to start this thread and to stay with it!

Have to say though that for number two I knew that I would have an epidural. I wanted some God damn sleep! I knew what was ahead of me - sleepless nights, aching nipples and a two year old to amuse! God bless drugs! This woman would have been MUCH worse off without them!

boogs · 12/05/2003 20:39

Bozzy, I'm glad I had a positive effect on you, at least. I'd say stay at home for as long as poss. if your only down the road from the hospital. I think it helped me being in the comfort of home. I do wish you lots of luck and I'm sure your doula will be a great help, if you're in the throws of labour and unable to make a decision like I was.

Good luck to you too Jackiej, and I hope it's as 'easy' for you as everyone seems to think it was for me. (It's not easy! Ever!)

I think some of my original comments were over generalised and I made a few sweeping statements, but I was just expressing an opinion. I hope no-one took my comments to heart because I wasn't being accusatory or judgemental.
WWW, beetroot and everyone who responded I appreciate your replies and they were an eye-opener.
I don't think anyone who's had a baby has failed. They succeeded, in bringing another life into the world, and should be proud.
Anyone else thinking of doing it au naturelle?

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Claireandrich · 12/05/2003 20:44

Boogs - unfortunately not all women can do it the natural way I am afraid. I am glad you had such a great experience but I wasn't that firtunate. However, I don't regret the way my DD came into the world and I simply don't feel like I have missed out either - the end result was the same = a beautiful, healthy little baby.

I had an induction as I was 2 weeks overdue with no igns of baby arriving. Induction overs 3 days didn't work and only got me to 2cm. Induction on final evening brought on the most awful pain I could have imagines - no contractions, just one long pain which made me violently ill. After a few hours of this I had pethidine which allowed me a couple of ours sleep. I still had only gotton to 2cm after this. They couldn't break my waters as baby's head was in the way - she still has scars a year on from their attempts. The drip didn't work much either. I then opted for an epidural as I was in so much pain. That evening still nothing had happened so I had an emergency cs. Within the hour I had had my baby, she was perfect (APGAR of 10), and I was in recovery feeding her. Although I lost a lot of blood and was very aneamic my recovery was very straight forward and I suffered no ill effects from the birth.

If I have another I am not sure of what I will do. I haven't ruled out either a VBAC attempt or an elective cs. BUT, I will never have an induction again!!! AND, I will have drugs if I feel I need them.

Claireandrich · 12/05/2003 20:46

BTW, I do agree that all women should know that natural, drug free labour does happen for plenty of women. However, your original post just cam across as though everyone should do it that way. I just wanted to let people know that it doesn't always work out that way.0.

Linnet · 12/05/2003 21:04

When I was pregnant with my dd I remember the midwife asking me at an appointment what sort of pain relief will you be having during labour? I told her I'd see how it went but I thought I'd be ok with gas and air, but not to rule anything else out just in case. My mother got through both her labours with just gas and air and we were similar body shape so I thought I might be able to go the same way.
I went 10 days overdue waters broke with slight contractions that were never regular. Then after a few hours gave a lot of pain but were still never regular. I ended up with diamorphine, some gas and air and an epidural that was topped up. In the end my dd, it was discovered, was in the op position and she wasn't going to turn on her own so I was rushed to theatre for a forceps delivery.
Afterwards I remember thinking what happened to my nice natural birth with a little bit of gas and air to take the edge off and I felt a failure for a long time because I hadn't managed to deliver her by myself.
I know now that it wasn't my fault and I hate to think what would have happened if they hadn't got her out when they did as I suspect she might have been verging on distress. I'm just happy that she was born happy and healthy and I'm hoping that when we get round to having baby#2 things will be different.
Not everyone can have a birth without intervention due to medical condition, mothers body shape and baby's health etc, but I understand the point that you're trying to put across in trusting in yourself and believing that you can do it. I honestly thought I'd manage but my body had other ideas. Here's hoping next time round it will be quicker and the baby will be in the right position.

pupuce · 12/05/2003 21:05

Hi Boogs

Another supporter.... why is it that in Holland women have very happy and healthy babies and a epidural rate of 7%? Gas and Air is only used in GB and Australia.... so how do all these women do it????

I had a very difficult labour but if anything, the MW made me stick to my wishes.... and I am damned glad she did. Had an OP baby with a 24 h labour and 6h1/2 of pushing. Did have an episio...
Second baby a breeze (well YKWIM!) - in water in 5 hours.

I do feel women are ill informed.... and are a bit "naive" (first timers only )
Why is it that many (inclduing mumsnetters start asking for inductions at 40 weeks.... I have on many occasion challenged some mumsnetters who wanted the baby now... fed up of waiting - and I am not talking about the 43 weeks+)
Also getting the right support is very important.... to have a scared/anxious husband is not helpful or a negative MW either! If you are with people who KNOW you can do it... then you are much more likely to achieve it!
.

morocco · 13/05/2003 00:49

hi boogs and others - brave post!
I feel very out of touch - everything I read when I was pregnant encouraged me to believe in a 'natural' birth, in water, dim lighting etc etc. So just my perspective, but it seemed to me that if you didn't achieve this, you were copping out in some way. Look at the attitude the press take to caesarians for example 'too posh to push'!! I wish more people would talk about the fact that you might need a c section for example or that you could be v badly damaged by getting one too late or not getting one when really you should have - apparently our perinatal record is appalling in the UK so this happens more often than it should.
Before my ds was born I was v pro 'natural' but I had preeclampsia and was given the choice of c section or induction. i tried induction but ended up with a c section anyway. sorry - I had no info about the risks of induction but even if I had there is no way I would overrule my obstetrician just so I could get the birth the magazines talk about or because I read some statistics about inductions being bad. I guess that maybe they are but I could never risk it - I would just feel too terrible if things went wrong because I thought I knew more than my doctors. I know that might sound offensive to some and I truly don't mean to - It's my honest feelings about how I would feel. If anyone needs educating and training more its the specialists so they can make the right decisions
Anyway, I obviously still am quite touchy about the subject because reading this made me upset (know it wasn't meant that way); I suppose what I am rambling about is that I felt all through my pregnancy because of magazines, midwife pressure etc that if I didn't do it pain free and vaginal then I had somehow failed and that is just not true.

bloss · 13/05/2003 01:01

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Ghosty · 13/05/2003 03:27

Boogs ... I am not offended by your post at all and I think you are a great person etc etc
BUT ... when you said "Does anyone want a natural childbirth" I thought I would post my view on it.
I wanted a natural birth ...Oh, I can't tell you how much I wanted a natural birth ... in fact it never occurred to me to go any other way ... wanted no epidural (was happy with a bit of gas and air if necessary) or any other drugs ... I was going to be mother earth ... I didn't read any of the sections in any of the books about complications as IT WASN'T GOING TO BE RELEVANT TO ME!
Went into labour ... hooray I thought ... I'll have a baby by breakfast time! Ho hum ... yes I did have a baby by breakfast time 3 DAYS LATER!
I was in labour for over 50 hours ... I was still refusing an epidural after 35 hours ... it was only when my DH (who is not an emotional person AT ALL) burst into tears and BEGGED me to have an epidural and a sytocinon drip to get me to dilate that I finally agreed. Still no progress (but mercifully free of pain) and after another 10 hours my midwife went to get a doctor and he persuaded me to have a C/S ...
The whole experience was the main thing that caused my PND ... I felt robbed ... I felt I had failed ... failed my son, my husband, my parents, every woman in the whole sodding world.
There was NO WAY my baby was coming out ... he was 10lbs and a star gazer with a huge humungous head ... I posted on the other thread that had we carried on both he and I would have died ..........
The guilt was more than I could bare ... I had fallen at the first hurdle of parenthood - giving birth!
If only someone had spent a few minutes explaining to me BEFORE I went into labour that not all births are easy ... that I might need help and god forbid a c/s then I might not have beaten myself up about it so much ...
You are very lucky boogs ... and so are all those who have managed it naturally ... but please understand that not all c/s are due to the selfishness of the mother or for the convenience of the hospital. My midwives went out of their way to let me do it my way ... I will always be grateful to them for that. But my c/s saved my life and DS life and it took over a year for me to stop feeling bitter about it ....
So ... most of us do want a natural birth ... BUT NOT ALL OF US CAN MANAGE IT HOWEVER MUCH WE WANT TO ....
Please believe me and be nice to us ....

steppemum · 13/05/2003 04:31

boogs, haven't had time to read the whole thread, but I have to agree and disagree! I had fully intended to do it all naturally, I didn't want any intervention at all, and had spent loads of time doing squatting exercises etc, and planned to stand/squat to deliver etc, etc.
I took all the natural remedies, I was in labour on all fours (suppose to help back labour) my dh massaged my back etc etc
But it doesn't always go according to plan, and after 24 hours in a lot of pain I was only 3 cms dilated and there was concern for the baby. In the end it was very high tech, and it turned out my ds was 10lbs with a huge head and the cord wrapped around his neck. I was just so greatful to have this beautiful baby, that I didn't care.
If you go into labour insisting on it being natural and something goes wrong, you can end up being very disappointed, and feel guilty.

steppemum · 13/05/2003 05:08

Sorry, I've just read the rest of the thread and realise that you've got a lot of stick. Thank you for hanging on in there and keep posting!

Actually a lot of my problems were that I had to be induced at 42 weeks. (I persuaded the consultant to hold off for a week, but then gave in) I have since read a lot on induction a realise that my experience was similar to many others who were induced, and I have very mixed feelings about whether of not I should have been. BUT my baby was 10lbs, with a huge head. How much bigger would he have been at 43 weeks or more? At least in the end I pushed him out myself (with the consultant standing there saying "If it's not out in ten minutes I am DEFINITELY doing a ventouse" and the midwife (bless her) saying "no, really he's descending, nearly here, keep pushing" (very funny in retrospect)
I was wrecked physically. At 6 weeks, I could not make it all round Tescos without sitting down because my insides felt like they were collapsing. My SILs were both up and about in no time.
next time I'd love to do it all myself, but then as my Mum said, your muscles are all shot to pieces now, so next time he/she will come out like greased lightning!