Natural Birth? You can do it!

[boogs]

My sisters' due in two days and it's got me thinking about my labour with dd. OK I'm not trying to blow my own trumpet here, I just want to pass on some info and knowledge I think all women should be aware of. Talking to friends/family who've had babies, it seems that alot of them get caught up in all the 'labour aid' possibilities. There's so much these days that can help us in labour, epidurals, gas'n'air, pethidine, etc, etc, that it's almost seen as inevitable to 'take' something during labour.
After having dd, and relaying my birth story I found that people were almost suprised that I didn't take any drugs, in any form, like 'how did she do it?' During the first stage I was at home, on a lovely shagpile rug on the floor, propped up against the bed. Dh gave me honey and hot water to keep me going cause I was there for a few hours. Each time a contraction came I got up on my knees and leant forward on the bed and got my lower back rubbed by dh. i was like this for hours, and I was really comfortable, and the pain was only bad when the contractions peaked. But when they died down, it was almost pleasurable. When I got to the hospital I was 9cm, and two hours later she was born. I was only pushing for 25 minutes. The crowning was really painful, like fire, but I didn't tear thank god!
I've heard so many scare stories about women who've had an epidural early on, which has lead to other forms of 'painkillers' and ended up having c/s, because they were so drugged up and numbed that they had no strength to finish.
My point is that a natural birth is attainable for any woman, even if you have a low pain threshold. Labour is painful no matter what, and I reckon it's better to feel the pain and control it than to have some drugs control it for you.
'New Active Birth' by Janet Balaskas is a brilliant book that helped me achieve childbirth without intervention and drugs which sometimes make things harder than they have to be.
It makes me feel sad that so many women opt for ceasarians without even trying to do it naturally which is better for mother and child. I'm not putting anyone down for any intervention they decide to take on, of course it's each woman's choice but I think more women should have faith and confidence in their natural ability to give birth.
Raspberry leaf tea, perenial massage, yoga, deep breathing, back massage, upright positions (instead of lying back on the bed in a pasive position) are all natural ways of controlling the pain of labour.
I hope this doesn't sound like a lecture, but I know I've given my sister confidence to try it naturally, and wanted to give anyone who's in doubt or scared some encouragement and advice.
Good luck to everyone who's expecting, and just trust in yourself!

Bogs - I just wanted to provide some support and say that although I had to have a c-section, and totally defed any womans right to choose one for any reason, yours was actually one of the first posts advocating natural birth that I have read that didn't actually offend me.

Again, apologies for offending you guys! I have really touched a raw nerve! I honestly wasn't trying to make any feel guilty, or like a failure for having intervention.

Ghosty, I feel awful about bringing your bad memories up again, as I know the difficulties you're having at the mo, like me. It wasn't intentional.

Pupuce, thanks for support! Thats' really interesting about Dutch women. Are women given alot of info there thru hospitals/docs, and how/when is intervention offered?

I have to defend my views, and I did say from the beginning I wasn't putting anyone down for deciding/accepting (whether it was the last resort or not) intervention.
I'm truly sorry to hear of all your unbelievably difficult labour experiences, and I'm sure every woman does her best for both parties when the time comes. I'm not for one minute suggesting women should continue with natural births when there's obviously complications which could endanger mother or baby, and I do respect the decisions of women to accept medical intervention.

What I meant was that it saddens me when women decide that they want intervention before their labours even started, if there's no outstanding circumstances (big head, unusual shaped pelvis, etc), whether it's because they're ill-informed or scared, or whatever. It's hard to predict how labour will turn out, and I just wish there was more information circulated among pg women giving pros and cons of different interventions, eg, during ante-natal classes, at hospitals and doctors. Everything I found out about medical birth aids was from books, internet and word of mouth. Not one piece of info (apart from what you can get) was offered by the hospital or my doctors. It's also very important to maintain an open mind.
Before my labour I said to myself 'try it without, but if you need it, get it!'. Yes it turned out ok in the end but I never ruled out intervention, from the start, because that would have put pressure on me, making the whole thing more difficult.

Everyone's experience is different, and I do take on all the points you've made and can only say that I have learnt alot from this, and will be considerably more careful next time I have this discussion.
BTW, I wasn't looking for a pat on the back either, even tho I came across as smug, and self-satisfied. My labour started on Saturday night, dd born tuesday eve, so was there for quite a while, even tho I said 'few hours'. Looking back, it doesn't feel like i'd been there for nearly three days.

I support everone's decisions, whatever they did, or didn't 'take', and 'support' was what I was originally offering to those who liked the idea of a nat. birth. Even tho it doesn't always go to plan.

Glad to hear it Prufrock!

But I do have to ask - why is it so wrong to be scared of pain? Pain is frightening. Sure, it's easier to cope with if you're relaxed - but lots of us (including me last time round) feel that on balance, we'd rather not feel the pain, or at least not as much pain as we're told it can be - and as it frequently is. I am absolutely terrified of my next birth, and am fully aware it'll probably be horribly painful, and actually I think that's probably a realistic attitude to take...

Well I have had what I consider to be 2 "natural" births, I had pethidine and gas and air both times but what could be more natural than taking painkillers when you're in pain? The medical term on my notes stated both times "normal delivery" so I think that's what its called really. After all, to be totally pedantic Boogs even going to hospital at all is not "natural". Amd I truly believe that one of the reasons for these births was because my dd's were 6lb and 6lb 13oz respectively. 9 or 10 pounders were my babes at nearly 3 months old for gawds' sake!

It's natural to be scared of pain, but be aware of the side effects of any pain-relief you take, both on you and baby.
Sometimes there's no choice and we have to take it no matter what the side effects are, yes.

I agree CAM, and would love to stay at home if given the choice.

I had an emergency c-section 1st time. 2nd time I had my 'natural birth' - no pain killers whatsoever, and I bloody wish I had never bothered. Almost certainly going for elective c-section this time.

I had all the 'natural' birth stuff too, did yoga, drank raspberry leaf tea. Did me the world of good.

Anyway 'natural birth' isn't natural, imo - our birth canals were developed before we humans learnt to be upright, and isn't really an ideal shape, which is why other mamals manage not too bad, & we humans tend to have so many problems.

sorry boogs - this is a topic VERY close to my heart at the moment - this sort of blurb about natural birth actually doesn't make me feel like a failure, nor does it make me feel guilty! I'm sure you didn't mean to be patroniosing, but frankly, it feels like it.

Why should I feel guilty because I don't want my undercarriage to be ripped to pieces and sewn back together & hurt like hell for nearly a year? Answer - I don't. I look back at my c-section child, and my 'natural born' child & I know which birth I feel better about.

As for the children - their birth has absolutely nothing to do with how I feel about them. So 'guilt' or 'failure' is imo totally irrelevant.

I have been following this thread with interest and wondered how I could contribute. I really feel for Boogs at the moment. All she has done is recount her amazing birth story and how it happened. Shouldn't we be pleased for her and recognise that there are alternatives to a medicalised birth! I am not for or against any type of birth or intervention - I am of the camp that it doesn't matter what type of birth you have so long as the mother's and baby's wellbeing is not compromised. But I am constantly amazed at how the whole birth process is taken out of womens' hands. I thought Boogs' tale was fantastic and I think she should feel very pleased with herself. Her story might help other women consider the options as in this day and age we should have access to all information, positive and negative, and feel empowered to make decisions based on the facts of the pregnancy itself, local/hospital services, family support, etc. I also think we should approach each birth with an open mind and (unless there is medical evidence to the contrary) approach each labour with as much information and support (partner, midwife, etc) and just see how it goes.

If I was pregnant reading this thread I would now be booking in for my epidural!

After reading this, I dug out the photocopy of my labour notes and they seemed to bear little relation to my memory of the event.

I had excruciating back pain all through my labour and even though I'd done all the prep, the raspberry tea, yoga, labour positions etc - it scared the living daylights out of me. Nothing I did gave me any relief. One position - stood up with knees bent and pelvic tucked well under - made it a little better. So I stood like this for hours. There was no relief inbetween contractions. I found that the midwives didn't really help the fear - my baby wasn't back-to-back so they couldn't understand why my back was spasming. There was no massage or anything - is it their 'job'? (my husband tried but it had no effect - he ended up sticking his nails hard into my back to take my mind off the pain a bit!! I was covered in scabs...).

Plus my baby was 9 1/2 lbs with a 38cm head circ. and got stuck on the rim of my cervix. He swallowed muconium and had the cord around his neck.

I had an epidural eventually (but not lightly) and really would never ever want one again. It stopped the pain of the contractions but not all the back pain and when the back pain came back with a vengeance I was flat on my back with my legs in stirrups - it was even worse. But I felt sure I couldn't have coped without one. Catch 22. Couldn't feel to push and had ventouse then forceps - tore loads. Bloody epidurals.

ANYWAY, according to my labour notes you would have thought it was a walk in the park rather than a living hell! Apparantly I was 'comfortable with some backache' for most of it. I guess it's nice to know that the medical profession are unflappable and that I wasn't in any danger... I think I wanted to read that I deserved a medal for Worst Birth Ever or something!

I think a lot of women get swept down the path of interventions without feeling able to fight it or even realising it is happening. Consultants etc are MUCH too ready to intervene at the slightest sign of delay or non-text book delivery.

Personally speaking, I would go for a natural birth every time (which for me includes gas & air, but not pethidine) up to the point where some consultant said I had to be induced or given an epidural or whatever; at that point I would say - elective caesarean please.

I would never choose a caesarean before a natural birth and cannot understand women who do. But would prefer that to the other interventions.

I have been lucky. The only intervention I have had is continuous electronic fetal monitoring - this meant I had to lie flat on the bed when I would rather have stayed upright and moved around as this in itself would have relieved the pain. I have since found that was completely unnecessary in 2 out of the 4 births.

And I have had nothing whatsever to do with raspberry tea, wheatgerm oil whatsoever

This thread shows, above everything else, that no two experiences of childbirth are the same. After labouring for about 12 hours with gas and air, I had an epidural and it worked fantiscally well for me - it numbed the pain, could still feel pressure when I had to push. I didn't have any tearing or need an episiotomy, despite my ds having a larger than average head circumference. I had no birth plan, but made sure I was well informed about all possible proceedures and basically decided to go with the flow. At the end of the day, what is most important is yours and the baby's wellbeing.

This thread shows, above everything else, that no two experiences of childbirth are the same. After labouring for about 12 hours with gas and air, I had an epidural and it worked fantiscally well for me - it numbed the pain, could still feel pressure when I had to push. I didn't have any tearing or need an episiotomy, despite my ds having a larger than average head circumference. I had no birth plan, but made sure I was well informed about all possible proceedures and basically decided to go with the flow. At the end of the day, what is most important is yours and the baby's wellbeing.

Monkey since you've experienced both options you're in a good position to decide what you want next time, unlike first timers, who I guess I was aiming at. Wishing you all the best for your third.
Eyelash (love the name!), thanks for the props but I don't actually feel very pleased with myself at the mo, after offending about 95% of womankind! I totally agree with you and am sorry to have put you off the au naturelle method.
It's good to hear your story too Tigerlily, even tho it didn't go to plan. I remember being so relieved after pushing dd out, but I was also in a state of frozen time and the m/w had to actually tell me to turn around and hold dd! Not very natural at all that bit!

This thread shows, above everything else, that no two experiences of childbirth are the same. After labouring for about 12 hours with gas and air, I had an epidural and it worked fantiscally well for me - it numbed the pain, could still feel pressure when I had to push. I didn't have any tearing or need an episiotomy, despite my ds having a larger than average head circumference. I had no birth plan, but made sure I was well informed about all possible proceedures and basically decided to go with the flow. At the end of the day, what is most important is yours and the baby's wellbeing.

Tessie, we heard you the first time, thanks! (te,he)
I do agree with you tho, that it doesn't really matter 'how', as long as everyone is fine afterwards.

oops - sorry!

Hey Tessie, that's my line!

I have started to read all the postings - but don't think I can get through them all without crying. I only gave birth a week ago so it's all fresh in my mind. I wanted a natural birth (OK some gas and air wasn't a problem), had read about it, was relaxed about it, prepared.... It didn't work like that for me after 24+ hours of contractions I was in so much pain that I took pethadine evn tho' I knew it would slow it all down. Six or seven hours later (pethadine of course all won off) I should have been getting the urge to push but didn't just lots more pain! I tried every position in the book to try and get my daughters head to move down, but it wasn't happening and in the end it took an episiotomy an a ventuse to get her out - actualy as soon as the put the ventouse on I think I pushed for England as she came out in one with absolutely no mark on her head.

I'm crying writing this as all through the last part of the labour and since then I have a feeling of failure that I DIDN'T manage to give birth naturally - I never swore during labour, just apologised! To me natural birth is still an ideal and I would still aspire to that but I don't want to feel guilty about any other way.

Boogs this is not having a go at what you wrote - it's great to give people the confidence that might make the difference in their birth but I guess I think we also need to be aware that even if it doesn't go to plan the most important thing is to produce a healthy baby at the end of it - however it happen for you it's hard but worthwhile.

I gues that's it and I'll read the rest of this thread at a letr date when I'm feeling less emotional about it all.

And Boogs - I repeat this is NOT critising you - your post is just what I would have wanted to read before I gave birth - can't promise it would have made any difference to the outcome tho'!

I didn't choose to have a natural birth, other people chose this for me. The doctor and midwife chose not to give me a C section, an epidural or induce me.

I had no specific wish to give birth naturally. My birth plan stated this. I would have gone along with any medical intervention deemed necessary.

At one point with son no1 I asked for an epidural but was refused because I was too far gone. I gave birth naturally by default.

I have had 2 'natural' births. I have never had faith in raspbery leaf tea, massage, yoga, or upright positions. Never went that route and if I was pregnant, never would. I have learned that breathing and mental attitude help me overcome the pain, but will never feel that these alone will result in a natural birth.

I think this is a very interesting discussion. Cheers to boogs for starting it and taking everyone's points on board along the way.

Judetheobscure, you wrote this :
I have since found that was completely unnecessary

That is true of a hell of a lot of things in labour.... even by well-meaning MW. I am with women in labour and sometimes I am astounded at what women "get" or are told (inclduing interventions NOT requested or agreed like a sweep or a ruopture of membrane!).... it's only when questioned or challenged that the medical staff will agree to think about it and maybe (sometimes) change their mind.
I know of MW who have said that often they or their colleagues say "Baby in distress" to get the mum in theater....(hence so many women are convinced that THANKS to the section their babies are alive - it certainly true in a lot of cases but by no means all!) The baby may not be in distress but labour is getting too long and they don't like it/fear it/need to get home, what ever!
I have plenty of people telling me they can't believe I had 6h1/2 of pushing.... well to start with it's in my notes and I can remember it !
But why would they intervene (besides me fed-up?) baby was not in distress, I was pushing... he was just in a bad position and I was vey tired and did not push as well as I should have... but he FINALLY came out!

Hey Ninja, don't fret. Contact your local NCT as they have a course set up for women who need to talk about their birth experiences. It is a traumatic time and you will need support to come to terms with it.
I wanted a natural birth too and was doing just fine until I went into the labour ward. The MW were insistent that I have either pethidine or an epidural. They strapped me to a monitor the second I was in there, and they didn't allow me to get up at all! They scared me into eventually having an epidural, they gave me no encouragement to have a natural birth at all. I believe the reason was that after the epidural they left me to it whilst they chatted in the nurses room, it was easier for them!
This time round I'm going for a home birth. I still have regrets about the first time, and not being strong enough to insist on doing things my way. But you trust the MWs as you have no idea what to expect. You rely on them to give you the right advice and treatment and to be on your side! Unfortunately it is not always the case. But you will get over this. The main thing is that you did give birth, and you and your daughter are healthy.
And welcome to the stage of motherhood where there is nothing you can do that is right or will please everyone - from how you give birth, right through to feeding, sleeping and discipline. There are loads of people out there who want to make you feel like a failure no matter what you do, just hold your head up high and stick two fingers up at them. This is a damn hard job for anybody, but especially first time round, and nobody should be made to feel ashamed over any choice or decision that they made, or were coerced into making!
(and that wasn't directed at anyone in particular, just society at large!)

"There are loads of people out there who want to make you feel like a failure no matter what you do" It's a bit harsh.... don't know if you saw the discussion with MEARS... You can choose to feel like a faillure - if you don't feel like a failure or do not see why you should... no amount of negative comments will make you feel like it !

One may feel guilty about things they could have done differently if they had known better for example.
I know that I feel guilty about having introduced a bottle of EBM early on as my son quickly found bottle feeding more efficient... I wished he had BF longer.

I CHOOSE to feel guilty about it - many would not - especially when he BF for 8 months which is much more than many other babies.