Who took ages to recover from childbirth? Help and advice wanted from survivors!!

[godivas]

Hello everyone, I actually read old posts about this but wanted to hear more details since I am really despairing now.

I gave birth to ds1 10 months ago. Total trauma in the delivery room. No episiotomy. Ventouse and 3rd degree tears.

I have so much going on down there still that I started wondering if I will ever recover from this.

Sometimes hurting on the outside, sometimes aching on the inside, sometimes a feeling as if my soft tissues are burned off at the enterance. Sometimes I feel as if I was hit by a bus on the perineum. Sometimes I am totally fine.

Anyone experienced such complications and pain like this for months and months after the delivery?

You're so right theautomatic, that's exactly how I feel, just wish I had the time nouse, and backing to put a website together..

Getting an established website like that to improve, and add the things we searched so hard for would be ace.

Update: sorry I've been away for a while. I emailed the Birth Trauma Association and they have been very positive. I have also been in touch with the Mumsnet administrators and have the go-ahead to gather support for this issue.

The upshot is that the BTA would like as many women as possible who have experienced birth trauma to contact their MPs on the issue and lobby the media (I've asked for clarification on exactly what they mean by this). They are going to the Health Select Committee at the House of Commons soon (I have asked for the date) and would like as many women as possible to raise awareness of the issue.

I will post a separate thread here too for anyone who would like to join in.

Hi ya,

when i had 1st dd i had 2nd degree tear and had been stitched up...fine no probs with sex.

when i had 2nd dd, 2nd degree tear and recommened not to be stitched up, so stupid me listen to nurses advice, no stiches. Took 14 months to fully heal.

sex is not the same, sometimes "bumping" into scar tissue caused pain. though to avoid pain, is to make sure "no accidentally touching" scar tissue.

3rd dd was a natural birth, must of "streched" the scar tissue causing pain.

now 3rd dd is 2yrs old, had fentons procedure done, to remove old scar tissue = remove cause of pain.

by doing so, my vaginal opening has been cut longer, almost to my anus.

i'm scared that i will have no "feeling" having sex.

i'm worried i've got a "bucket fanny".

has anyone had a procedure to reduce the entrance of the vagina?

or advice?

or thoughts?

any feedback would mean the whole to me.

many thanks in advance.

Honeybunnie

Hi ya,

when i had 1st dd i had 2nd degree tear and had been stitched up...fine no probs with sex.

when i had 2nd dd, 2nd degree tear and recommened not to be stitched up, so stupid me listen to nurses advice, no stiches. Took 14 months to fully heal.

sex is not the same, sometimes "bumping" into scar tissue caused pain. though to avoid pain, is to make sure "no accidentally touching" scar tissue.

3rd dd was a natural birth, must of "streched" the scar tissue causing pain.

now 3rd dd is 2yrs old, had fentons procedure done, to remove old scar tissue = remove cause of pain.

by doing so, my vaginal opening has been cut longer, almost to my anus.

i'm scared that i will have no "feeling" having sex.

i'm worried i've got a "bucket fanny".

has anyone had a procedure to reduce the entrance of the vagina?

or advice?

or thoughts?

any feedback would mean the whole to me.

many thanks in advance.

Honeybunnie

sorry for repeat send

Although my experience doesn't seem too bad when reading what some have gone through (you brave pepole) I had a urethral tear (not sure what degree no one told me anything like that!) and an episiotomy with birth of DS in 2006. Managed to conceive DD in January this year but really felt i only ever had sex to have another child. It was just too painful to have sex for any other reason. Also had problems with urinary continence - gave up and just started wearing pads. Went to gp a copule of times in year after birth told it could take up to a year to heal. It still hadn't healed after a year but life moved on and i kind of got used to it. DDs birth went a lot better. Had a second degree tear but i could actually sit down and breastfeed with a day or two, with DS it was more like 2 weeks to sit down, a month to bf sitting down. It also seemed a lot less swollen. Haven't tried sex yet (she's 4 weeks old). It's really helped me to read this thread as its inspired me to seek out help if things aren't better this time rather than suffer in silence.

Honeybunnie, am I right in thinking you've not had sex since the Fenton's? If so I suppose haveing a gentle go as long as you are fully healed is the only way to find out...

I actually found the Fenton's itself reduced my vagina size, and on the 2nd op I had to ask them to cut me a bit as sex was impossible. So I kind of have the opposite problem, relaxing enough to not feel too stretched...

MakkaPakka you poor thing, remember we only know the level we've been pushed to, so you can't compare and say your experience isn't as bad... it's still the worst thing you've felt... I think you've been very brave to do it again. My mum gave up after tearing with me. Not sure if we're gluttons for punishment or heroes for doing it again..!

Takes time to settle down there, I really hope you can enjoy sex again before too long. Wine always helps. God I miss wine...

Just read an article in the guardian which has got me seething, am so angry. A leading midwife is talking about how womens fear of pain is making them opt for the easy way out when giving birth ie having a c-section rather than a vaginal delivery. That riled me but what made me more angry was her assertion that childbirth pain is "temporary". What a load of crap! As many of us on this board know, for some its not temporary but lasts for months, if not years. And of course this midwife doesnt mention common lifelong problems women have after giving birth naturally ie scar tissue, pain on having sex, incontinence, prolapse etc. There is a quote from the Birth Trauma Association talking about the crap quality of care some women have during labour but they dont spell out the damage childbirth can do. Honestly, I'm so annoyed I'm thinking of writing to the midwife who has expressed these views.

Have attached link below. Would be interested to hear others thoughts on this?

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/oct/26/health-women

I had my second ds 5 weeks ago and sustained a 2nd degree tear and lost a lot of blood - dont know how many stitches but she was stitching me up for an hour...

Still feel bruised, swollen and sore. Also AGONY to do a poo (sorry TMI!)

It was also TWO WEEKS before a midwife checked my stitches (at my health visitors insistence - she was horrified it hadnt been done before). Was checked again last week to see if they were infected due to ongoing pain but the GP said not...not sure I trust her though...she looked for a total of about 4 seconds.

Was given a voltarol supository after being stitched up but only had paracetamol for the pain since.

Strange thing is...I had a second degree tear with ds1 too, and I dont remember pain like this....I am still walking like John Wayne!!!

I have my 6 week check next week and am not leaving til someone checks my stitches.

So sorry to hear about all your awful experiences

Automatic - am off to read the article now.

Becaroo - you poor love. Can I suggest you take a laxative gel like lactulose to soften those stools, I was sent home with it from hospital and it really helped. Also, I rented a Valley Cushion from my local NCT which really helped me sit down. It has a groove down the middle to allow blood to still flow through the stitched area and reduce scarring. Apparently rubber rings like I first used can put too much strain on the area.

And get rubbing with oil as soon as you're healed enough!

Ooh theautomatic, that woman!

This really riled me: 'Women are less tolerant of labour pains because they haven't developed tolerance of pain. For example, if they get period pain they will either take Nurofen or go to their GP.

Err, I have NEVER thought "I've got period pains, off to the doctor then"!!

Plus I went all the way to 10cma just on gas and air, before resorting to the spinal to have forceps... It is the AFTER effects, and the AFTER care (or lack thereof, as the NCT lady later said in the article thank god)
that scares people in to C/s (nd that's a small percentage).... I am having one because the ops I needed to clear up the mess afterwards have left me no choice!

And breathe...

Let me know what you write to her, feel free to quote any of my experience and irritation too!

Hi Lotser, am in the process of composing a letter as we speak. Trying to be calm and factual in my letter and not lose it, but difficult when I feel so passionately about it! I just dont understand how this midwife who must have seen some form of damage to women in the form of 2nd/3rd/4th degree tearing throughout her career, can be so blaise about vaginal birth. She must have seen some poor women sent off to the operating theatre to be sewn up. This seems to be a common problem though, women endure serious childbirth injuries, are patched off (sometimes very poorly, depending on the surgeon) and then expected to just get on with things.

I'm in the process of ttc again and have thought long and hard about whether to try for a vaginal birth again but have decided it has to be a c-section.

When are you due Lotster?

Hiya, March 7th but the c/s will be last week Feb I think.

Good luck with the letter and the ttc!

I gave birth nearly 5 months ago. Was referred back to gynaecology almost straight after birth and appointment finally arrived last week. Consultant confirmed I have bladder/bowel/uterine prolapse and had a 3rd/4th degree internal tear that should have been sutured after the birth in theatre but was missed by the doctor who dragged out DD. Am at my treatment during the birth and at the doctors who did this to me. Have had problems with incontinence, urinary and faecal , since the birth. I had quite a bit of neurological damage, which meant I couldn't feel or move my pelvic floor for a long time. Sensation is gradually returning to this area and pelvic floor exercises are helping to control incontinence though urge incontinence still an issue. Was told I will need an operation to repair the prolapse but can't have this until I have completed my family (DD is my 1st child). As important as getting the 3rd/4th degree tear/prolapse sorted is that the second degree external tear I did have stitched is causing me a lot of pain and sex is utter agony. DH can just about enter me but entry is so so painful and sex remains painful throughout. DH has to come out of me as soon as it is finished as can't cope with the pain. Spend the duration biting my lip trying not to scream. May seem foolish to persevere when it is painful but like others here I had heard it can sometimes improve pain through scaring over time and I also refuse to admit to the end of my sex life at the age of 36. Told consultant this and he at first refused any treatment saying there was nothing they could do. It was only after I broke down that he offered me Gabapentin and, if that doesn't work, Fenton procedure. He thinks in my case sex is painful not because the scaring has narrowed anything but because of the way the nerves have healed in the scar tissue. Apparently, Fenton's can be risky in this scenario because although they can cut away the exiting scar tissue they have no control over how the nerves will knit together in the new scar tissue and it could even be worse. Does anyone else have experience of this and did Gabapentin improve things? I've ordered the cream mentioned above and am very grateful for this thread. I didn't know that cortisone injections are a possible treatment for painful scaring so will mention this to my dr. when I go back in six weeks. I've also been referred to an obstetric physiotherapist but only because I mentioned it as I'd read about them on Mumsnet; a referral wasn't offered to me! Thanks for starting this thread. I was in a bad way when I got back from my appointment last week and found it when searching through past threads. It has brought me a lot of comfort and hope that other treatments might be available as well as that so many other women are similiarly affected. I hope we all get the treatment we deserve.

Hi Benjy. So sorry for the impact on caring for and enjoying your newborn and new family life this must have had on you.

Good on you for perservering. You will get this sorted, it will take time.

I don't know the cream, sorry. But I can advocate massage to reduce sensitivity in scarring no matter what you're rubbing in. I've also have had cortisone injections if you want to ask anything, or just look at my post earlier.

I have also had a Fenton's procedure twice (first time the stitches were in the wrong place and I was sewn up way too tight), just to be clear, they don't take away the scar tissue, it is divided.
It sorted me out, but after a long road to recovery, I was advised to have a c/s for my second as the area would be unlikely to heal well again if I birthed vaginally, and I didn't want to risk a third repair leaving me with so litle stretch that I wouldn't have a sex life!

With that in mind, I think you need someone trustworthy (without an agenda as many docs trying to drive down C/S rates have), to tell you whether a vaginal birth would be advised for you again anyway, because if it wasn't, then why wait to repair you?

Lobster, thanks for replying. The injuries have had an impact on how I've been feeling. I think I've been verging on PND but I have met many new mums recently, which has helped a lot. Not that anyone talks about these issues but it just helps to get out and have a coffee and think about other things.

Could you tell me about the cortisone injections? Did they ease the pain and make sex possible?

I didn't realise that they just separated the scar tissue in a Fenton's procedure. Not sure this will work for me then as the consultant thinks it is due to a nerve trapped in the scarring, which, I imagine, means I might still have pain as the nerve endings will still be there? I am even less sure now that surgery is right for me.

The doctors will help with teh painful scarring and operate on this, if necessary, before I have another child but they can't repair the prolapse and internal tearing as even if I give birth by elective section (which I plan to do; there is no way I am going through this again) pregnancy alone may cause a repeat prolapse, which is then harder to repair.

I think I am still slightly in shock to be honest. Being an older first-time mum, many of my friends have confided in me about their physical problems after birth but none had tearing like this or prolapse so even though i feel I was prepared, I wasn't prepared for such a severe injury and such a huge impact on my sex life. I assumed it would be uncomfortable for a few months and then return to normal, although less frequently than before as I would be so tired. The irony is I have far more energy I expected to have despite the sleepless nights and a high sex drive but I can't do anything about it! The doctors (male) seemed to treat the tearing/prolapse seriously but weren't concerned with the problems with sex I'm having, I was made to feel that it was almost inappropriate of me to worry about it and as a new mum, my focus should be on my new baby and not on sex I have been so shocked at the treatment women get giving birth and postnatally - seems to be one of the last areas of life in which women have very little control over their own bodies and power to influence what is done to them whereas it is one area where we should be most empowered. As I said, nearly five months on I am still in shock and cannot believe what I have experienced.

Benjy, so sorry to hear about everything you've been through. It really is challenging enough trying to look after a newborn for the first time without having to cope with horrendous childbirth injuries. I remember all to well trying to look after my dd whilst being crippled up in pain from my 3rd degree tear. I wont go into detail about my injuries (I have posted at length about them on this thread!) but wanted to say I know exactly how you feel and really hope things improve for you.

I too was shocked at my postnatal treatment and couldn't believe the appalling care women receive after giving birth, it felt like I was living in a third world country sometimes. The complete lack of sympathy from midwives, health visitors and GPs flabbergasted me, many of whom seemed to think I should put up with the pain and be grateful that I had a healthy baby.

Do you have any appointments scheduled to help you resolve some your health problems?

Hi theautomatic hope you're doing ok.

Hi again Benjy

On the PND, not being qualified myself, but having had treatment for mild depression and anxiety in the past, and then for PTSD after the birth, I would say please don't fear that PND will drag you under. From what I know, you are feeling depressed/down because a bloody awful thing has happened to you and it's interfering with your everyday life. Therefore it's appropriate that you feel bad. It will get better, but I know how it can break your heart honey.
PND is more when everything's rosy and you should be enjoying it but you just can't IYSWIM. This is why I ws diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress and not PND, and somehow that gave me more control when I felt I had none.
I don't say this to diminish your feelings, but more to give you strength and perspective. You feel shit because a really shitty thing is happening to you, you deserve to feel sorry for yourself, and it's very difficult to convey this to people in everyday life. If you had PND it would take you off on a horrid ride and you wouldn't know where you'd be getting off. But you are going to fight for the right treatment for yourself, it will be bloody hard, but you will be looking back on it sooner than you might think and be proud of yourself for getting thorugh it all, and you'll be happy again. I know this from my own experience where I thought "my sex life is over at 32" / "I will never have another baby" / "I feel so broken" / "I feel castrated", and I'm now pregnant again. And okay, it might take an extra glass of wine to relax me and get me in to bed but then it always did!

On surgery - this may be a silly question as I know very little about what happened whilst I was asleep, but if you have a trapped nerve, perhaps it would be untrapped when the tissue was loosened? I wonder also if there's anyway to identify it and remove it? You will need to ask - I attended a "Perineal Clinic" at the hospital for injection and then they booked the surgery (my story above).
I used to have to fill out a questionnaire each time I attended about sex, how possible and painful it was, which seemed ironic because I couldn't have any! But at least they were concerned about the quality of it and improving it...

The injections hurt. But they do dissolve some scar tissue and for some people are all they need. I had two before my Fenton's. Sex was too sore for me, but then after the Fenton's had healed, and I'd done the required physio and scar massage (again, all above), I tried sex thinking it would be awful and it was fine. Well, after about 15 seconds I stopped and sobbed for about half an hour out of sheer relief and emotion so not great for my husband, but good for me!
Hopefully if you can get the injections, it might be enough for you to conceive and have some sex life, then get properly sorted afterwards? I really hope so.

The automatic and I (and the others) chatted earlier in the thread about being older - my theory is the young ones get the sretch marks, and some of the older mums get the injuries... Maybe we lose elasticity and muscle tone. But again, no research to back that up!

Have a good read through this thread, there's loads of advice and support. Ask anything else you need. Chin up.

Hi everybody!
My experience, ventouse delivery, 2nd d. tear, stiches infected, my vagina "over-healed" (I've never heard of that before, did you, please, tell me), so I noticed that I have "another hole"down there. Doctor told me that I've overhealed , and again legs up, to"cut",what has gorwn there. He says used local anaestesia, but it hurt like hell;at least recovery was quick, just rubbing lubricant to avoid the skin healing again there, no more pain.
I know people that has ElectivesC and Emergency, and overall, I think that even they are mayor surgery, etc..., You know what you are getting, but with vaginal d, never, is a gamble. And it took me a couple of months to recover a bit, completly, one more: my frien, emergency S., 2 days after at hospital, she was walking, carrying her drip around, leaning on the bed, seating, and FULLY recovered, in 1 MONTH!!! Ten days after labour, she was out, having lunch, and a walk!!!!

I had an c-section nearly 10 months ago and have still not fully recovered Although it was not a vb it is still too painful to have sex, my bladder still is not right and my tummy is very sore.

I do not want to take anything away from vaginal birth mums, what some of you have been through makes me cry. I just want to demonstrate that c-sections aren't always so great re recovery.

Ladies, I was directed here from my OP and I have wept as I read some of these posts...Firstly, it made me realise how incredibly common these problems are (and to count myself lucky that I only had 2nd degree tears which is small potatoes compared to some of you out there)and secondly, it made me see my GP yesterday and demand a gynae referal which he agreed to do

I've been thinking about this a lot recently about how much we just aren't told prior to giving birth. The books (and I read dozens, was Ina May-ed up to the hilt) and the classes make you fervently believe that if you bounce on a birth ball everynight, breathe properly and drink raspberry leaf tea, you will most likely have a problem-free "natural" birth. Now, you may very well do so but I think no-one admits just how much of what happens is down to sheer luck / Fate rather than how much almond oil you massaged onto your perineum

The truth is still a great taboo, only whispered about, that childbirth is always painful, always risky and possibly traumatic.
You may emerge jubliant and unscathed (physically and emotionally) but you just got lucky!!

For every woman who is striding around back at work 5 days after her elective C section (French minister for Justice, anyone?!), there is another whose bladder is pierced, or whose scar gets infected, or who can barely crawl down the round months later

For every woman who militantly plans her beautiful waterbirth at home (me), there's one who's rushed into emergency theatre with a potentially fatal complication and who spends months racked with shame and guilt afterwards (erm, me again)

For every woman who pushes baby out in 3 mins without so much as a graze, there's another who is still weeping with pain from complicated cuts and stitches and scars months or even years later

For every woman who raves about natural birth, there's one who wishes with all her might she'd had a C section instead. And vice versa.

I've had both a section and a normal birth. They both have incurred long term complications, they were both terrifying (albeit in very different ways)

So let's face it, there is no way of doing this without having to face pain and risk. I think if the medical culture were more open about this, it would stop so many of us feeling like we've failed when we still haven't recovered months after birth. There are so many of us out there yet we are treated like some sort of underclass at times

Let us thank our lucky stars that we're not living in another century or indeed another country where some of us and our babies would have certainly not have made it

Very well put MmeMoufle...

I was wondering, SaintRiven if you are still reading this post, that is whether you got a chance to get the Fenton's which you were scheduled for in November?

It sounds awful but I am so relieved that there are other people out there who feel as humilated and depressed and useless about the damage child birth has done to their bodies - my husband found this thread while we were searching the internet to find out how we can try and solve my 'sore fanny'!

It seems like everyone here who has had problems with pain after childbirth had very serious tearing. I only had 1 internal stitch with my first baby (his hand was over his face) with lots of "little" external grazes and then apparently only one graze with my second son (they were born 15 months apart). Ever since the birth of my first baby I have had ongoing daily discomfort and a lot of pain with sex. The entrance to my vagina is very sensitive and sore at the bottom and slightly up the sides. Sex used to be bearable after my first baby as long as my husband didn't put any pressure on the bottom of the entrance of my vagina - very awkward for him but it was possible! Sex is not even possible now that it also hurts up the sides aswell after having my second baby. Somedays it feels noticeably swollen and can sort of rub as I walk around so walking becomes quite uncomfortable and sometimes when I sit in certain positions it seems to put pressure on the sore area and hurts until I shift.

I can feel a hard area where it hurts at the bottom (on the area which I think is called the forchette) which I assume is maybe scar tissue from a graze but I am not sure why it hurts up the sides of the entrance of my vagina.

I don't think there is really any pain where the stitch was. I have had multiple doctors examine it (much to my horror as I was very particular about having a very private water birth where NO ONE was allowed to touch me - I didn't even let my midwife examine me to tell me how dialted I was) The doctors all say something different - nothings wrong/it's hormonal/it's tissue that should have been 'tucked in' when stitching but was 'left out' so it needs to be cut out/it's psychological (that last one made me want to kill the doctor that said it!!)

My feeling after almost 2 years of this mess is that maybe it's just scar tissue and needs oil and massage but should I have such sensitive painful scar tissue from just grazes?? And then why does it also hurt up the sides of the entrance of my vagina after the birth of my second baby when I didn't have any tears there?

And I just have to have a moan while I am at it about my post natal midwife - after examning me she said I can't see anything physically wrong and you just have to deal with the pain, discomfort and no sex for the rest of your life because hundreds of other woman do and there's nothing special about you so just deal with it. I still want to cry when I think about it - me sitting on the bed bawling my eyes out saying I can't bear the thought of this stupid broken fanny ruining my relationship and her just shrugging her shoulders and saying "what do you want me to say?" The stupid cow hasn't ever even given birth herself!!!

Hi Seb, glad you found us

The hard area you describe sounds like scar tissue, sounds like you're definately a candidate for the old rubbing techniques and possibly also cortisone injections. Have you asked your doc about them or have they mentioned them at all? Just because you didn't have endless stitches doesn't necessarily mean you healed well, maybe you sat down a lot after the births and didn't have good blod flow to the area (just one example).

Lots of us on this thread have had ignorant, unkind comments to deal with, and often healthcare professionals who haven't even heard of the solutions that others among us have had recommended as a matter of course, so you are in good company!
I know it can be very hard to take when you feel written off, and diffcult to get on with your life, but you'll get there. You just need to arm yourself with the info and not take no for an answer.

I would ask your GP to recommend you to a perineal clinic at your local hospital, if you have one. Unlike your silly midwife, they should actively ask you to describe all the sensations and problems during sex and find a solution for you, be it injections of whatever.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Thanks so much. Now that I understand the whole issue a bit better I will go back to my gp - I have a lovely new one now and I am sure she will be much more helpful than the last one who left me practically unable to walk for a week following her examination of my sore bits!!

It's so sad what the women on here have had to endure and it makes me realise it could be much worse and I should actually consider myself lucky. I really hope that everyone here gets the help and support they need and that everyone will one day will have the happy ending that they all deserve xxx