Who took ages to recover from childbirth? Help and advice wanted from survivors!!

[godivas]

Hello everyone, I actually read old posts about this but wanted to hear more details since I am really despairing now.

I gave birth to ds1 10 months ago. Total trauma in the delivery room. No episiotomy. Ventouse and 3rd degree tears.

I have so much going on down there still that I started wondering if I will ever recover from this.

Sometimes hurting on the outside, sometimes aching on the inside, sometimes a feeling as if my soft tissues are burned off at the enterance. Sometimes I feel as if I was hit by a bus on the perineum. Sometimes I am totally fine.

Anyone experienced such complications and pain like this for months and months after the delivery?

Oh and it's almost 9 months since I had ds and I spent today feeling like I was kicked really hard in the perineum and as if my insides were scraped off with a spatula. Now compare THAT to possible c-section complications.

If I could go back in time I'd opt for a c-section, every time. Yes of course it is major surgery but so is repairing a 3rd/4th degree tear. I spent well over 3 hrs on an operating tear while they repaired my bum, to me a c-section would be a walk in the park! Its less embarrassing talking to people/doctors about problems with your c section wound as well. At least if you have an infection or a problem with stitches/scar tissue from a c section you can face going to the doctor, it took me months to get up the courage to talk to my husband about all the problems I've had with my bum, let alone a gp! If I ever have any more I will have a c section, never risking such severe tearing again.

sorry, that should be operating table!

Gilliana1 as the others have said you have a very sound reason for it, and stuff those that think otherwise. Don't go down the path we have been on. I dare say most of us wish we could have had a CS.

Does anyone else have problems with yeast infections following their tear? Sorry if this is TMI, but I am wondering if it's something that happens once everything gets messed up? I am fine until I have sex - then I get candida EVERY time. It's clear that I am not catching it from my DH, it seems to be that because everything is already irritated, sex throws the balance out just enough to make it happen. Though I recently found acigel, and if I use that for a couple of days after it seems to prevent it.

Its funny that they suggest that it's psychosomatic. In the earlier attempts I thought sex would hurt, but it would be ok after. Boy! was I wrong. I found that sex was kinda ouch but a lot more bearable that I expected and I was surprised, but the day or two after were sheer hell. Maybe it's because of the nerve damage component? It seemed like maybe the activity flared it up again. I doubt I will ever really know.

Oh God, I just read another thread about a graze from childbirth and all I can think is "I'll swap places with you!" She said it stings when she wees. I felt like I was being sliced open with razor blazes every time I went for number 2's for several months after ds arrived. Some people really don't realise how lucky they are! I don't mean to sound bitchy, but that complaint has me in tears.

vizbizz, yes I read that thread too and the replies about grazes normally healing after 2 or 3 weeks, if only tears healed so well and so quickly! I cant imagine recovering so quickly, it was still a year til I could walk properly. Had a weep in secret in the bathroom this evening, felt so sore in the ahem bottom area. I have to admit to feeling annoyed with women who go on about getting their figure back after birth, and how they despair about their extra couple of pounds. I have no sympathy at all.

oh and to answer your question about infections, I went through a stage of getting thrush after having sex, this eventually passed. Can relate to the pain after sex, I also used to suffer for a couple of days afterwards especially if it was "vigorous". Things have got better now though, though not like they were before.

I don't know if I have yeast infections, but I get easily inflamed down there since birth-One gynae I saw said the bacterial flora of the vagina becomes more susceptible to change when the area has already been through hell. Could it be not because of sex but a gliding cream or gel that you are using during sex which is maybe upsetting your Ph value and thus making your bits more vulnerable and open for infections?

Seems like the thrush thing is not unusual. Damn it is nasty.

keirao, I don't use any creams etc, haven't felt a need for them, so that can't be it.

theautomatic, have you tried xylocaine/lignocaine ointment as a topical relief? It doesn't penetrate deeper layers, but can help a bit when things get sore at the surface level. Helped me a lot with hypersensitivity in the early stages - though i didn't get it till ds was about 6 months old - and then after a lot of nagging.

hell, I am a smaller size (now a size 8 and trying to put some weight back on - don't stone me!) than I was before Ds, but I'd happily have extra kilos if it meant I was pain-free!

vizbizz, thanks will investigate the ointments, willing to give anything ago. It is odd as the pain is around the bottom area but not from where I had stitches. Have seen numerous doctors who say this particular pain and discomfort is not related to the tear, personally I dont believe them. Sigh. I remember before childbirth never giving my arse a second thought, now sometimes its all I think of. Goes to pour another glass of wine...

I know what you mean! It's kind of depressing thinking about your butt all day long, isn't it?

I have suspected infections many times over the summer. I had these itching attacks several times which eased when I put yeast creams on. But I never get tested for a yeast infection really so I don*t know for sure. One attack was after I left on wet bikinis (I used to always do that before birth), one was after I used an antihistamine, one was after some sleeping pill. I never noticed anythinglike this before birth though.

And about sympathy for others suffering from minor discomforts, I have very little of that now but I don't like it. This whole childbirth experience hardened me a lot, I have become a stiff, intolerant person towards others' complaints about anything. I even want to go back and smack my old self for worrying about nausea, stretch marks or a possible vertical c-section scar.

Gilliana1, I think this thread speaks for itself. I wouldn't want to pass a pea vaginally after reading this thread but whatever you do, research a lot first, weigh your pros and cons for all types of birth, like others have said. And good luck.

I use lidokain for bum / sphincter / perineum pains. I used to object to this for it treats the symptoms not the cause, but I stopped fighting against it. The anaesthetic makes me forget at least for an hour and that's good by me.

On that note, I actually want to ask vizbizz and mrstittlemouse if they had "scar" issues and why they were not considered to be good candidates for a Fenton's to ease the pain.

Vizbizz,in your situation is it finally decided that yours was a nerve damage (I read some were getting the nerve removed? Is this a possibility for you?)

And mrstittlemouse, I am familiar with your story, what is it that makes you hurt still? Anything Fenton's could have solved?

I am curious about Fenton's because when I support my perineum with my hand or put lidokain only there I feel good for a period of time. I wonder if my issues can be scar-related.

I am also curious as to why some people like riven or SofiaAmes haven't been offered Fenton's a long time ago..

I find that even wearing pyjamas in bed rubs on my scar and irritates it leaving the skin sore and itchy, there are some knickers I can no longer wear either. They certainly dont tell you this in pregnancy books or at antenatal classes. Somehow I think the birth rate would be a lot lower if they did or the c-section rate even higher. This also upsets me. I hear regularly on the news and in the papers about how there we have such a high c-section rate. If its so high and surgeons dont mind performing c-sections why did I labour for 3 days to give birth naturally to a large baby who was stuck in the birth canal and ripped me to shreds! Sorry to sound bitter but I go over and over in my head how things would probably be so much better for my if I'd just been given a c-section of if I'd been clued up on childbirth before I went into hopsital to give birth. I think my whole life would be different in a very good way.

Hello ladies, another loooong post from me coming up (!).

On c-sections, they cost more, simple as that I reckon. They take up a theatre, and loads of staff.

My midwife at my last appt. said that this is the only reason she can think of that one doc on my consultant's team starting a bizarre campaign to terryify me about c/s and try a 2nd vaginal birth with comments like "you must know that infections from C/S can be life threatening", and in response to be sayin I have no flippin perineal stretch left after 2 x Fenton's, "Well as long as the upper parts of the vagina are ok, I'm not too bothered about external scarring..." )

I'm bloody bothered that I would definitely need a special repair, most likely leaving me with no future sex life as it's taken so long to get me functioning now, without future scar tissue and subsequent removal

My very gentle husband was livid and I was
sobbing, thankfully a 2nd doctor came in and told the first I clearly needed a C/S with what I'd been through and that was that.
As midwife said, some have such a desperate mission to drive down the c/s rates and save on budget, that when they're trying to stop the women who just don't fancy the challenge of a normal birth they're sometimes blind to the ones who really need it.

As for Fenton's Godivas, there are upsides and downsides. Not many people know about it which shocks me, my GP had to badger the hospital to stop fobbing me off with cortisone injections and operate. I'll detail it here as it might be useful for others seaching for info on MN. I'll be very honest I warn you!

On the downside, you have to be put under G/A by a load of people about to operate on your most personal area which is daunting.
You can't lift anything heavier than a kettle of water for 8 weeks after to avoid scarring.
You might be black and blue down there which is upsetting too, but not so much if you're warned!
You will probably have to use dilators ( www.vaginaldilator.co.uk/where-to-buy-vaginal-dilators.html ) which the hosp should give you free, in your V every day starting from three days. This shocked the hell out of me. But it's to maintain the opening and stop stitches doing anything they shouldn't, it does hurt as first but I took my anti-inflammatories a litle while beforehand.
There is a long period of self-massage physio and pelvic floors to do for a few months after.
One friend asked if I was pleased with my new "designer vagina" without realising what a stupid, hurtful, thing that belittled my whole experience it was to say, but then, if you have any ongoing personal problems like this you're probably used to putting on a brave face!

On the positive side, I must say that with that whole nightmare behind me, having had it twice as the first one slightly botched... I am pretty much pain free except around the time of my period, when I get some soreness.
Plus things have flipped on the sex side of things, whereas before it was painful and continued to be painful for at least a couple of days so I didn't do it for months, now I actually find relief from a "workout"! For e.g. (TMI coming up as usual!) I haven't had sex for weeks because of morning sickness and sheer tiredness, but now that's lifted, and we attempted it this week, my scar which had been feeling a bit hard and sore now feels fine again.

It's worth it, but you have to fight for it and getting a GP on side is the best way to do it. I went on my surgery's website and specifically chose the GP who specialised in gynae. And interestingly, phsychiatry - I was depressed about my bits so she was perfect!

I feel I've been to hell and back, but can't get it out of my head that so many women suffer in silence. I am someone who complains, asks lots of questions, and had good support from my GP, cognitive therapy counsellor and husband. But what about the people too upset, or down, or unsupported, or just plain in the dark about these things suffer away, too shy to come on places like MN and get answers??!!

I would really like to to set up a website where women can get the answers and advice they need about some of these birth traumas. There seem to be some out there, but generally they just allow people to vent their stories, then tell them to see the doctor.

I struggled to find anything about Fenton's, except medical journals written for doctors. I'd like to see something with practical advice like "this is how to keep your stitches clean and avoid infection after birth", "Ask your GP for x or take these alternative remedies for thrush/mastitis, and here's a picture of what they look like", "Here are operations/creams/excercises or physio/ you can do for perineal trauma", "this is the difference between being a bit post-natal and being really depressed or having PTSD", plus c-section advice and so much more. Because it's extremely hit and miss what one MW or HV will tell you and another won't bother.

Maybe I should,but it would need to be backed up by qualified bods I'm sure. Hmm...

Anyway sorry to waffle again. x

Lotster, that's amazingly useful information. As you say, there's really not enough info about Fenton's online.

I totally agree with you. We are brainwashed as to how wonderful and healthy a vaginal delivery is only because c-sections are more expensive. Where I come from educated and / or urban women with private insurance don't even hesitate a second before they decide to have an elective section, noone looks down upon them, and doctors don't go beyond saying "have you also considered normal birth", that's it! It is totally accepted that this is a perk of modern life. Just like we don't wash dishes in our hand any more but use dishwashers instead! That system is quite unfair too though since women who can't afford to pay for a c-section or for private insurance can't have elective c-sections. For almost 20 years now, not a single woman in my family has given normal birth. Happy, lucky women. Where I live though (I guess this goes for the UK mostly as well) health costs are covered by the state hence talking about an elective section is almost a taboo.

About Fenton's, having to stick in a dilator shortly after the procedure sounds awful. That also means I have to look at the area to face the blackness and the blueness ( I am so happy that I didn't look down after birth until the area was normalized).

In case I can't find you here later before I decide to get a Fenton's, would you mind telling me what kind of pain (and where) did you have it? I have this pressure on my perineum, but I can't see a big scar at the entrance of my vagina (where I think it hurts). There's a lump in my perineum though. Is that what is removed? And as I said before when I put anaesthetic on the perineum, the pain and discomfort eases a bit. Did you have a big scar that was visible for instance?

Hi again.

As look down, I tore from the V entrance down and right through the perineum. Where I was stitched, the bottom of the right labia which had torn got sewn in with the tear repair, leaving me lop sided too. At the time, I had stitching inside the V, down to just above the bottom.

I had an infecton after birth which burst a couple of stitches, leaving me convinced there was a hole just inside the bottom of my V entrance going under my perineum. The hospital denied the stitches had burst (which my HV and GP said was bull*t), so I feel that's when I developed a lot of scarring under the perineum.

So afterwards, I had a ridge of scar tissue from the entrance which was easier to feel and knobbly, and down the perineum, which was more lumpy under the skin and also a lump a couple of inches up inside the V from a haematoma that scarred.

The whole area was sore and felt like it was pulling or a bit burning at times from what I remember. When I was examined I would leap off the couch.

I had two lots of cortisone injections in the months before the surgery. Which you never know, might be enough for you?
They are painful, as you would expect from a needle in your bits, and contains anasthethic that kicks in half an hour later, to see you through the next twelve hours.
Admittedly they did help to dissolve some of the scarring and reduced pain in some areas, and for some people is enough, but it wasn't enough in my case which is why my doctor pushed the hospital to operate.

They use them again during the Fenton's procedure whilst you're under. During the op, they cut your perineum, removed scar tissue - which apparently they said is actually divided more that taken away) and sew you up again. These stitches don't need to be removed, they dissolved or fall out later.

The pain after the op is not great but you are prepared, unlike birth. Morphine in the hospital is great(!), and when you go home you have diclophenac or similar anti-inflammotary and paracetamol. I also had IV antibiotics before I went home to prevent infection.

Ice packs were good, they gave me some rubber hospital gloves to part fill with water and then I wrapped them in a layer of kitchen towel. You use them for about 20 mins, no longer as you mustn't take blood away from the area to long and impair the healing. Arnica for bruising and calendula to avoid infection are good too.

I have to have an elective C/S, but another Mumsnetter on here had a Fenton's after her first and then went on to have two big babies vaginally so everyone is different!

Good luck with whatever you do. I'll try and send you my email for guture questions/support if I can work out how!

If men gave birth, would they risk the amount of damage to their genitals that women suffer?

No chance!!! Most gynaes and obs are male and they have NO IDEA of the pain and embarrassment that women suffer after damaged caused during childbirth.

Sorry for the rant, just had to get it off my chest!

I had the exact same thought!! I think if it were men giving birth, normal birth would have been made illegal by now.

Lotster, that doctor who thought you should try vaginal birth a second time (male or female) should be shot in the crutch.

She actually, for shame... I agree

Just heard back from hospital that I have an appointment to see dermatologist about problems I've been having with scar tissue from all the stitches I had after giving birth. I really hope they can help. It has taken months of battling with my gp to get this far, I have tried cream after cream to try and relieve the symptoms but nothing works. Has anyone else seen a dermatologist about scar tissue?

Sorry theautomatic, no experience with scar tissue treatment (yet). Good luck, hope it's a good dermatologist.

I was going to ask you all if any of you experienced breaks in your painful periods right after birth. Since the 12th week after birth, I have been having some almost totally symptom-free periods (ranging from 15 days to 2 months!) during which it almost felt like I never gave birth (didn't try sex though-- was too scared and husband was away or sick). But the pain always came back. For instance, I have been feeling as if my insides have been ripped apart for a month now, after having spent July and most of August without pain.

My pain goes away occasionally too but not totally.
Lotster, thanks again for everyhting you have written, my email address is [email protected] Maybe I'll post a Fenton's enquiry on MN later ( I read old posts though)
Good luck, theautomatic. Keep us informed. Hope they can solve your scar issues. Hope we all get better very soon. I don't know if there are women who suffer for decades even if they seek medical help.
I always wanted big, sexy breasts. Then my bottom exploded, how's that for sexy?!

theautomatic Ask her about a cortisone injection they are sore but they dissolve some scar tissue and it could be all you need along with some regular massage? Good luck.

Keirao I wonder if you experience changes in pain as your hormones fluctuate? Sounds like you really need more GP support/ideas on this. Have you heard of Agnus Castus? It's a remedies to even out your hormones,
(see www.thegoodwebguide.co.uk/index.php?art_id=253 )
Just a shot in the dark but it doesn't harm to do a course and maybe would help? I could be talking twaddle so if you wanted to ask a professional about alternative paths you could call www.theorganicpharmacy.com in London. They deliver remedies and give really good advice over the phone. They cleared up my breast thrush really quickly when the docs had given up!

Godivas I've sent you my email address for future use. Exploding bottoms aside, those big beautiful breast become cocker spaniel's ears I can tell you...!

Thanks Lotster will definitely ask about the injection. To be honest feeling sick with worry about the appointment. I could count on one hand the number of times I visited the doctor pre childbirth, but in the last few years I always seem to be going to one appointment or another in the quest to get a resemblance of health back to my bits! Really dont want to have to expose my bum again sigh, and worry that most dermatologists in their everyday work dont have to deal with many scar tissue around the bum type patients. Its a bloke as well which doesnt help. Oh well will have to be strong and get on with it, it seems most of us on here have had to battle on looking after babies while suffering. Hears hoping to a full recovery for all of us.

Oh bless you. I know exactly how you feel hon... the relentless humiliation of it all, but it's taking you upwards I promise. And I bet they've seen everything a thousand times over and won't care at all.

If it's any consolation, I always found men to be gentler than women for some reason, even though sometimes they don't understand so well.

One day you life will stop feeling like it's completely medicalised and you're constantly prodded around, you just have to be brave to get there...