To think condemning midwifery services as racist does a disservice to midwives?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c30968817q3o

Certainly staffing issues in maternity wards needs to be addressed as well as other resources but from experience in working in healthcare I genuinely don't recognise racism as being prevalent amongst healthcare staff and so really don't see how this report is coming up with such conclusions.

Instead of blanketing a hard pressed work force with being racist shouldn't we be focussing on why race may be correlated with poorer outcomes looking at factors like language barriers, cultural expectation of birth, uptake of ante natal care amongst suffering communities and general health disparities?

Maternity care like a lot of areas of medicine is open to improvement but to demonize hard working staff I don't think is the way to go.

It doesn’t condemn all midwives as racist
it does not steer away from hightlighting why some mothers and children get a much worse treatment than others and if you don’t admit the problem you can never fix it

The problem may not be only racism, but it’s certainly in the mix.

I think this is very true. I have never experienced such dismissiveness and unkindness by nursing staff as in maternity services. They were awful. And don’t tell me they were rushed off their feet because they were chatting at the desk so not even attending to mothers. I didn’t get any help post-natally with my baby. - breast feeding or bathing the baby. - nothing; the loo was in a disgusting state and I had to clean it before using it; they gave me a bath that they hadn’t cleaned from the previous person - having stitches and just given birth - it had bits floating in it and of course I got a V&D for the first couple of days as a new mother; one of them shouted at me for getting blood on the bed when I was doing my best not to using the pads when I had just haemorrhaged and was a few hours post partum. Just awful.

I wonder if it’s systemic to their training or just because it attracts people who like to boss people in a vulnerable state about. Either way it’s not acceptable and I think it’s a part of why women get PND.

Yes i do understand that but what is in the News? its all about Racism, little about years of under funding, lack of staff & poor leadership.

We have had reports into other NHS services, i don't recall these services being referred to as racist, why midwifery?

Quite frankly, having suffered severe Birth trauma, including the midwives and other medical staff making mistakes which nearly killed my son and me, cover ups in medical notes, trying to gaslight me, I’m so glad the corruptness and arrogance not to mention misogyny in maternity care is being highlighted. The presence of racism would surprise me in service which somehow considers themselves gods

Just because you haven't seen racism doesn't mean it doesn't exist
There have been countless maternity scandals and reports
Yet few changes
I would not want to have a baby in the UK

Agree with this. I'd be telling my partner about how busy and understaffed they were but every time he came they were sitting at the desk, gossiping in the sluice or on their phones while buzzers were being ignored. The number of times I was being blanked while they were all sweetness and light to him.

Saddens me, then. Yes I do know women can hate/demean fellow women

All these threads are the same, and I’ve seen multiple either started by or with replies from midwives who seem unable to believe that they and their colleagues are part of a service that provides substandard care.

Not that it surprises me, based on my own experience of midwives not listening to women.

Very true because the changes cost a lot of money and "we" don't fund it, be that additional pay role or funding AHP degrees as we used too.

Look at the hoo ha over Reeves increasing taxes, much of which will go to the NHS, the electorate now want Reform and they will cut the NHS even more than ever...

Completely agree. Oh yes the being shouted at for daring to get some blood on the bed. How I'd love to turn the clock back and insert my indomitable 65 year old self. "Did you just shout at me? Who do you think you are speaking to?" Backed up with a hard Paddington stare. Shame we don't have babies in our 60s really and hand them to our daughters.

I think accusations of systemic racism removed focus from what really matters in terms of outcome.....healthy baby and mother. Surely we should be focusing on lack of funding and staffing to improve services with associated training? These things will give tangible benefits in terms of good ante natal services.

As has been shown on this thread racism brings in a divisive diversion where we have people posting about suboptimal experience under BAME midwives being dismissed as it pushes away from a narrative that some desire.

It also seems to me a lot of the racism (which is a strong word) in reality is because some people do not find the whole birthing experience culturally perfect. The question is can we afford bespoke birthing experience that is culturally dependent when there are so many other pressures on this service?

The way this story is being presented gives the impression that midwives (often working class) bring in a whole range of racist stereotypes which I think the midwifery profession would counter strongly. Clinicians with higher degrees seem to avoid criticism on this front and to me that is a form of classism in itself.

It also seems to me a lot of the racism (which is a strong word) in reality is because some people do not find the whole birthing experience culturally perfect. The question is can we afford bespoke birthing experience that is culturally dependent when there are so many other pressures on this service?

That’s not at all what the report says:

“Systemic and interpersonal racism within maternity and neonatal care is widely recognised and cited as a factor contributing to racial inequities reported in maternity and neonatal outcomes.… Throughout our investigation, we have heard about unacceptable racism and discrimination across the maternity and neonatal system.

Inequalities extend to babies’ outcomes. Babies of Black ethnicity are more than twice as likely to be stillborn, and are at increased risk of preterm birth and neonatal admission at term when compared with White babies. Neonatal mortality rates are also higher for Black and Asian babies compared with White babies, and there is variation in neonatal care delivery between ethnic groups.”

I find your approach sad and unacceptable.

Sorry OP, but I think you're in denial.

Black women are still more than twice as likely to die during pregnancy or shortly after giving birth. And black babies are more than twice as likely to be stillborn.

This is not simply a case of the birthing experience not being "culturally perfect".

I'm sure that you are coming at this with good intentions, but until we all face up to the reality, I don't think outcomes are going to improve.

ETA cross posted with @HoppityBun

The question is can we afford bespoke birthing experience that is culturally dependent when there are so many other pressures on this service?

We can’t afford not to.

When a baby is born, so is a mother.
And the way we treat her at this pivotal moment in life, will be the first influence that shapes the mother she will become.

Birth has to be bespoke, because every single one is different.

There is so much ignorance in your post and such a lack of listening to what has been said on this thread. You say systemic racism accusations remove focus from what really matters. Women of colour literally have a higher rate of maternal mortality and negative outcomes. That doesn't matter? By ignoring it you are complicit in this.

You also say clinicians seem to avoid criticism about this? This just again shows your ignorance on the topic of racism in health care. This is prevalent throughout health care, for example GPs being less likely to prescribe pain relief to black women. This is highly criticised.

If you work in health care as you say I urge you to do some real research into this, and not just sit in a place of defensiveness.

I am long retired but I am ashamed of the findings in this report and so horrified at the state of midwifery care in this country. My nieces have endured appalling treatment at the hands of the nhs so I am not surprised at any of it.
We need to get on and address each failing as fast as possible.

Agree, my Mum was a Midwife, i was delivered by a Black Midwife.

Many minorities are less well off, a worse diet and poorly educated, they have not the sharp elbows of the middle classes, nor do they now how to complain, we have politicians saying leaflets in the NHS should only be in English, that the Equalities Act needs to be revoked, that DEI in the NHS should be got rid off.

All of which will make racism and poor outcomes for BAME mothers even worse.

My DD now works in the NHS, she sees daily the underfunding, especially as she spent sometime working in Australia, with far higher numbers of HCP per capita.

We need 40,000 additional Doctors to match the EU average.... 40,000!!!

I was horrified at the testimony of women who had experienced racism on maternity wards either explicitly or through unconscious bias or institutional racism. I had different problems with the report. It looks at everyone and everything connected to maternity care. It is holistic but for one of 6 recommendations to be about the state of buildings (which havr a minimal impact on maternal death rates or infant death rates) and not to prioritise the recommendations really worries me. The other issue I had is that the interim report only mentioned listening twice, and each time was in a direct quote from an interview. It seems from the women who I have heard speaking and from the stories here that the person giving birth is often the first person to realise that something is going wrong yet when they say something they are dismissed or ignored (and this could be an even more common experience for someone black, poor, Asian or someone with a language barrier. I am so concerned that the report didn’t highlight this.

I know the report published was only an interim report not the full report, but I really think we need a public enquiry on this. It would be able to include the regulators who are not included in this report, it could call witnesses rather than only taking evidence from people who have volunteered it and it would (potentially) push the issue to the top of the political agenda and bring the structural changes needed (such as clear escalation paths when a woman reports a problem, and the requirement to justify a decision not to escalate), it could increase funding and it could look at staffing level and make these mandatory rather than a guideline.

Birthrate is falling but maternal death rates are rising and black women are 3 or 4 times as likely to die than white women. Poor women are twice as likely to die than richer women. People who have died in childbirth or experienced the loss of a child deserve justice and assurances that things will change. I just don’t this report will do that.

not sure if I should start a new thread for this.