Why are so many women anti c-section?

[jivegirl]

Despite planning a peaceful waterbirth at home, I ended up having a very scary OP/ventouse delivery with my daugher nearly 2 years ago (delayed second stage, retained placenta, 3rd degree tear, plus internal tearing which had not healed after 6 months and required cauterising)

I have been offered a C-section and will see the consultant again to make my decision in just over a week. At present (35wks) bump is transverse, so the decision to have a section may yet be taken out of my hands. However part of me is secretly hoping the baby stays transverse so I don't have to justify having a section.

I can't understand why so many women seem to be anti-sections. It seems admitting a preference for a section is almost taboo.
I still get horrific flashbacks to delivering my daughter and can't think of anything worse than going through that again (my DP rates it as the most traumatic day of his life!! ) The thought of a calm, planned c-section sounds like bliss. Am I being naive?

I should also say that I will have excellent support from friends and family to help me cope with caring for an active toddler and a newborn in the weeks that follow - so I am sure I am luckier than many..

Would love to hear some opinions on this ladies!

My C Section was fabulous- elective as DS was breech - actually it wasnt that pleasant but had great team and healed really quickly.

Not looking forward to having to do it natural next time (if there is a next time!)

c-section makes me feel a bit sick.

a trainee midwife explained what actually happens in a c-section (i was 6mths preggers at the time) and i felt physically sick.

also, a friend of mine had a c-section, they cut through her bladder and she ended up peeing in a bag for a whole year and longer for full recovery!!

would never, ever have it as an option on my birth sheet, but as an emergency proceedure, it's better than dying in childbirth.

swiftyknickers, after having had a cs already it's likely you will eb offered an ELCS the nect time round.
Doctors seem to be terrified of the 0.5% risk of uterine rupture so I'm sure you could use it to your advantage if you really do not want a vaginal birth.

Thank you minimonkey. That all sounds ok. I just want to make sure he isn't traumatised, on top of everything else that's going on. I feel quite calm about it myself, but maybe that's naivety...One last question - does it hurt when they put in the catheter (though I suppose you have your spinal block by then) and how long does it have to stay in for?

I had my catheter out once I was able to move.
Once my feelings came back in my legs they took it out and offered me a comode for when I needed to wee, but as it was my third I knew from experience that it's best to get up and about ASAP (just take it gently) so walked to the toilet probably about 10pm (7 hours after the CS).

Couldn't feel it go in I was already numb, I only felt the spinal, and that wasn't much more than a blood test, the rest of the feelings were odd, rather than painful.

"Psychological reasons are not medical. They are psychological."

D'ya wanna go and tell a pyschiatric ward there is nothing wrong with them? I thought we'd moved on in the last 50 years! Mental health is still part of someone's health and medical needs.

That has to be one of he most disgusting comments I've read on this site!

I didn't see that comment tinkerbellesmum, tbh I havent read most of the thread, I only came to tell cheesesarnie stuff and got dragged in

But, I have to say I agree, I've started threads and spoken on threads a number of times against ELCS's for non-medical reasons, but even I think that a psychological reason is important, in fact, probably one of the most important.

I do believe we should have ways to overcome those psychological issues to make the woman feel able to give birth both naturally and by CS but that doesnt mean it will alwasy work.

I have had each type of section, emergency with epidural, emergency with general aneastethic and an elective. I had three beautiful babies who I love very much and couldn't care less how they arrived, I feel I am honoured to have them and don;t really have the right to feel disappointment as some women come home without their babies.
It is nobody's business how you have your baby and get pissed off with how many people ask me why I will have another caesarean, as if they wonat to decide whether it's a good enough reason.
I am pg at the moment and so next time I will say because I can't be arsed to push!!!

Thanks again victoriansqalor. So the catheter deals with wee...what about if you want a poo? (sorry folks). Presumably it is too sore to get up/do it for hours after the op.

To return to the main discussion, like I say, I have to have a caesarian anyway but sadly there are still midwives and mothers out there who make you feel like a second class citizen - or at the least a big weed - if you have to have one, even if it's not your fault. But in my opinion 'fault' doesn't come into it and I might have wanted one anyway, it did me in seeing my poor sister in such a state. She was pressured to have a vb even though the baby was large and breech. Not good.

"Personally, I think part of the controversy surrounding cses is due to jealousy."

Would you like to explain that to someone like me? I have had both, I would go natural everytime, I did it first time without drugs, I didn't even go to hosptial until I was about an hour away. My second one was going fine (althouth 31 weeks) apart from being too fast, footling and not responding to attempts to slow it down. I was fully dilated, hadn't been allowed to have any pain meds, food or drink in case I had to go for a section. Even so, the only thing I wanted was water because I was so dry, I didn't think the pain was that bad. I had to be rushed into theatre when they found her foot was descending. In 15 minutes I was prepped, put under and my daughter delivered.

I had to stay in hospital two weeks because I wasn't well, I needed a porter to take me to and from the NNU so I could see my daughter as I couldn't walk far. I don't see my daughter as mine and I still have PND because of how much it messed up my head. At 22 months I still get a lot of pain, I even have contractions that are far more painful than the real ones, my sex life has suffered because it hurts my scar, I can't carry my daughter or pick her up from the floor because of the pain in my back, I'm gaining weight because I can't get around as much as I did... My next pregnancy will be complicated because of the damage they caused getting her out, I won't be able to try again till later this year because it would put my scar at risk of ruption, I won't be able to have a VBAC because my scar could split, I'm likely to not be able to go to term because of the scar and early labour last time meaning I will need another GA.

However, I still say that sections should only be given where it is a real need and not out of convienence.

LT, your body will have shut down a little and so you probably won't need a poo.

I'm afraid, TBM - we'll have to disagree on that one.

As I said earlier, I believe strongly:

My body, my baby, my choice. I appreciate that many people wouldn't wish for me to have that option on the NHS and I don't expect them to.

It it's what a woman wants, her consultant agrees and she's not expecting anyone else / tax payers to foot the bill, wwhy should it matter if it happens to be more convinient?

If I'm paying I'll do what I please!! Women have far less necessary surgery, good luck to them! Besides having an elective is safer for the infant by way of negating an emergency c-section.

Not sure if anyone else has raised this issue on the thread - but another answer for some women who've had really difficult births when it comes to the next baby is to book with an independent midwife, or with a caseloading NHS practice (if they're lucky enough to live in an area which offers this).

I suffered from a lot of anxiety during my second pregnancy after a long, difficult labour followed by a forceps birth with my first (9lbs 6oz posterior baby). After the birth I blacked out in the lift on the way back up to the ward - first time I've ever fainted in my life and I was terrified. Got very obsessive as second birth approached - couldn't stop talking about it and worrying. I also got gd in the second pregnancy and was told I was carrying a 10lbs+ baby, which didn't help. I also had other problems in that pregnancy - I'd had a cervical suture placed at 14 weeks which also caused me lots of worry. That's how they picked up the size of my baby - I was being regularly scanned to check the length of my cervix throughout the pregnancy. You can imagine how I felt when the woman doing my scan at 34 weeks told me that the baby was already about 7lbs 6oz.

Anyway, after a false alarm at 38 weeks, when I was left completely alone for 3 hours (apart from a midwife sticking her head around the door every hour or so) on a monitor in a dirty room on the labour ward I went into a real crisis. Basically, to cut a long story short I ended up booking with an independent midwife the next day and from that moment onwards the anxiety about the birth started to lift.

I found it made a HUGE difference to me to have her on my side, to know she would be with me during the birth. We spent hours together over the following 3 weeks, talking through the issues that would be pertinent to me in labour (monitoring, birth positions, pain relief). She really built my confidence up.

She told me that her practice do LOADS of vbacs and births for women who've had traumatic experiences first time around.

I think for lots of women booking with an IM gives them a sense of control which enables them to cope with their worries about the birth. I know it's not for everyone - some people can't face the idea of a vaginal birth no matter what, but for a lot of people having a GUARANTEE of good care and total support is enough to allow them to face the thought of labour. For me the experience of giving birth with the help of my IM was empowering - I'll never forget that day as long as I live. I got to meet my son for the first time and also came away from the experience feeling so strong. It really changed the way I feel about myself and my body.

Shame we had to fork out for the privilege of having our baby delivered by someone we knew and trusted - we raised the money by remortgaging so I'll be paying for it until I'm 60, but it was worth every penny.

Anyway - I think the point I'm making is that an elective section isn't necessarily the only answer for everyone who's had a frightening or difficult first birth experience.

I agree, PosieParker!

Interesting point, Fabsmum. I am only sorry that sort of care wasn't available for you on the NHS.

ladythompson, it can take days til you open your bowels after CS, the drugs constipate you and you arent allowed to eat for about 12 hours before you arrive at the hospital anyway.

I have had an emcs and then an elective (well, it was classed as another emcs the second time round because I started to go into labour early!) The 'elective' was truly wonderful - I was given the choice again as I had started labouring early whether to try fro a vbac or walk down to theatre and I strolled on down to theatre!

Yes its a big operation in terms of what is physically done to get the baby out, but for you lying there - its actually ok! My recovery second time was a lot quicker, I was mentally a LOT happier because I had the birth that was best for ME, my husband and my baby. DD was born at 38 weeks and was already 7lb 9oz, had a massive head and I am only 5ft 2in! So glad for me personally she didnt go to term (9lb plus prob) as I would have had major stitches in my fouf instead of my tum.

You do whats best for YOU, and ignore all the horror stories.

It's perfectly possible to labour large babies.

"Besides having an elective is safer for the infant by way of negating an emergency c-section."

But babies born by elective c-section are actually more likely to suffer minor and serious respitory distress after birth than babies born after vb OR babies born after emergency c-sections.

Mind you - you can lessen this risk by having your section later rather than earlier. I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that in some countries it's common practice to have an elective section only after labour has started (if you see what I mean - some women planning a c-section go into labour spontaneously but are then whipped into theatre for their elective sections). That's one way of reducing the risk of respitory distress.

According to the RCOG guidelines on C-section, c-section is not linked to lower rates of neonatal mortality except in cases of breech, and is linked to an increase risk of stillbirth in subsequent pregnancies. Obviously though this doesn't apply to all women in all circumstances, but overall this is the case.

VS - yes I know it is possible. I personally rather had surgery than be potentially doubly incontinent. I am very small framed.

There is a lot of angst overwhat is essentially someone else's life choice.

I personally cannot comprehend why someone in their first pregnancy without any complications would opt for an elective. That's not to say I think it should be denied nor am I jealous of them or think any less of them. I'm just saying that personally I cannot understand choosing for it to be more difficult that it may need to be. By that I mean choosing an operation and having to lie in bed when there's every chance you could have a straightforward VB. My kids have been 91st & 99th centile for head circumference BTW.

Again, I'm not criticising that choice. In actual fact, I'm intrigued to know!

Hi Interesting thread.. I had a C section In Jan an elective one at that, DD was extended breech from 20 wks so had no chance of normal delivery.

Wouldn't recommend having one but depends on how mentally strong you are to be honest, recovery is difficult I found not being able to drive or do anything for 6 wks the hardest particularly as its my first child.

I thought I would make a good recovery being a dancer and all but nooo that didnt happen.

it's much harder to lose the weight, I am still looking 3 months pg!! the overhang is terrible but it depends on your body and I know some women who have had sections and had no complications.

I am not anti sections on the basis that it is slightly easier but I kind of fell like I have missed out on something not giving birth naturally and makes me feel like there is something wrong with me for that and I envied those women who had their babies naturally and walking out of hospital the same day or next!!

As for choosing one, personally I wouldnt but then I do think whatever way you have your baby its difficult. Swings in roundabouts.

Hope that helps and good luck!

"There is a lot of angst overwhat is essentially someone else's life choice."

The 'angst' (if you want to call it that) I feel about cs is connected with the fact that cs rates have DOUBLED in a decade, with no corresponding fall in stillbirth rates.

I cannot get my head around the fact that in countries like the Netherlands they have a c-section rate that's massively lower than ours but their maternal and infant mortality rates are the same.

I can't see any explanation for that, other than perhaps a good proportion of our cs could be avoided, and that really bothers me.

I think being a new mum is hard enough as it is. Can you think of anyone you know who'd plan to buy a new puppy in the same week as they were having major abdominal surgery? And yet so many people are cavalier about the fact that 10's of thousands of women are going home after cs to care for a tiny baby and often other children as well. How can that be a good thing?

People get really up in arms about it when you make this point, and fall over themselves to explain how necessary their own c-section was - which gets a bit wearing because this has got very little to do with the choices that individual mums make about operative birth. All mums do the best for their babies - they choose the safest way they know to give birth. They have no choice.

But you have to ask yourself why, when there are very simple ways of reducing the emergency and elective c-section rate - like offering women one to one care in labour and providing enough midwives so that larger numbers of women have the choice of homebirth, nobody seems to care enough to make it happen.

Before anyone takes issue with this point - the research on this is pretty good: it's even in the NICE guidelines on c-section that 'During their discussions about options for birth, healthy pregnant women with anticipated uncomplicated pregnancies should be informed that delivering at home reduces the likelihood of CS'. Also, "Women should be informed that continuous support during labour from women with or without prior training reduces the likelihood of CS".

How many women here were given this information by their midwives?

Of course a live baby and a healthy mum is the most important thing, but if a woman ends up having a c-section that she might have been helped to avoid - well that's not something to feel complacent about is it?