Why are so many women anti c-section?

[jivegirl]

Despite planning a peaceful waterbirth at home, I ended up having a very scary OP/ventouse delivery with my daugher nearly 2 years ago (delayed second stage, retained placenta, 3rd degree tear, plus internal tearing which had not healed after 6 months and required cauterising)

I have been offered a C-section and will see the consultant again to make my decision in just over a week. At present (35wks) bump is transverse, so the decision to have a section may yet be taken out of my hands. However part of me is secretly hoping the baby stays transverse so I don't have to justify having a section.

I can't understand why so many women seem to be anti-sections. It seems admitting a preference for a section is almost taboo.
I still get horrific flashbacks to delivering my daughter and can't think of anything worse than going through that again (my DP rates it as the most traumatic day of his life!! ) The thought of a calm, planned c-section sounds like bliss. Am I being naive?

I should also say that I will have excellent support from friends and family to help me cope with caring for an active toddler and a newborn in the weeks that follow - so I am sure I am luckier than many..

Would love to hear some opinions on this ladies!

This is my first post and I have a general
question about caesarians (which may sound a little weird), which I hope I'm asking in the right place. I am having a caesarian at the end of Nov and DB is very squeamish. He really wants to be there but is worried he might faint, even though everything will presumably be screened off. He says he will still be able to smell the blood, insides etc, even if he can't see them! (Don't judge him cos he is actually really supportive and lovely - it's just like a phobia he's got). So - CAN you hear squelchy noises and smell blood and guts from behind the screen?? I want to be able to reassure him. Thank you!

God - said I wasn't going to come back onto this thread.....

Redfraggle - thanks for the apology (have only read the last post - yours - , didn't want to read any others as was very upset about some of the comments that were made yesterday).

I think you get this on threads dealing with contentious issues. It happens a lot of threads about feeding too. I feel that my comments were purposefully misinterpreted for the sake of furthering someone else's argument. Others joined the thread and responded to the misinterpretations rather than what I'd originally said.

The comments were particularly hurtful to me because through my work I do occasionally come across first time mums who are extremely anxious about giving birth - and sometimes you don't need people to tell you - you can sense it - and I've always done my best to support them. This usually involves putting them in touch with the supervisor of midwives at our local hospital who helps them decide how best to manage the birth - whether it's to try for a vaginal birth with a detailed care plan in place so that they go into hospital/birth centre feeling as though things are under control, or to see a consultant with a view to organising an elective section prior to the onset of labour.

But arguing for elective sections to be available for women who have crippling psychological and emotional anxieties around birth is a LONG way from arguing that elective sections should be available ON DEMAND to low risk mums within the NHS, as it exists today - and I think it's very unfair and unkind to be accused of a lack of sympathy and of naievety for expressing the view that the latter would be unsupportable in every conceivable way, given the current state of maternity services now and in the forseeable future.

I haven't read the whole post but I'm going to fly the flag for cs... I had one, planned as ds was breech. It was great, in and out in under an hour, no complications. I was walking (albeit a bit unsteadily) a few hours later, out of hospital in three days with a neat little scar that healed instantly. I had absolutely no problems, still bfing at 8 months. The only regret is that I said I didn't want the screen dropped when ds was pulled out, next time (if there is one) I will have them lower it so I can see the baby come out. I think it's terribly sad that women beat themselves up about these things... I was of course prepared to go through a vb but hey it didn't turn out that way, I am in no way ashamed that I couldn't achieve a vb. I think women should support each other and our choices more.

since theres so many csection experts on thread i thought id ask-ive had 3 sections.one emergency 2 elective.3rd resulted in bladder damage due to scar tissue.all ok now.i want another baby.doctors said no but consultant said no problem so long as aware of risks.any thoughts?

Ladythompson... you can't really smell anything at least I didn't. If your dh is squeamish the theatre team will give him a chair to sit on so he doesn't topple over. He can always sit with you next to the anaesthetist. That's where I was and trust me, you can't see anything unless they drop the screen at your request. Is your dh squeamish about needles? Mine is and had to hide in a corner when they were doing the spinal block, thankfully there was a lovely nurse to hold my hand!

cheesesarnie, all pregnancies/labours have risks, what you need to do is work out whetehr the risks of another CS or even a VBA3C outweigh your wishes for another child.

(FWIW, Im planning on ttc next year, I just had my 3rd CS 4weeks ago) There is/was a poster on MN called zipper(?) who has had about 7 CS's.

Headfairy, thank you so much, that is reassuring. He can cope with needles, just about - it's just blood and guts he can't stand. Where in your back does the spinal block go? I presume it is a big needle, is it? That doesn't worry me as I once had a spinal tap and nothing could be as bad as that! I didn't realise they could lower the screen so you can see the baby come out. I guess that's something else for us to consider...Once the baby is out, do they wash it and then it gets taken away? Is it normal for dh to stay in theatre when you are stitched up (which I understand takes 45 minutes or so) or does he go with the baby? And someone told me staples are better than stitches - is this true? Sorry to be such an ignoramus....

LadyThompson, I smelt nothing, nor did DP, the only sound was when they sucked up my waters, and we only heard that because the surgeon said 'That's your waters'. If he is squeamish jus tell him not to look when they lower the sheet, or ask them not to, DP saw DS2 half in and half out of my tummy, which imagine might make some peopel feel a bit weird, but he wanted to see that, then the screen went back up as we cuddled our new baby and they sewed me up.

IT only takes about ten minutes from first cut to baby out btw, and when DP came in and sat next to me he didn't realise they had started at first!

VictorianSqualor -thats the thing i dont know!does anyone know how much the risks increse with each one?am i pushing my luck?

My first post here too: I am planning an elective CS (Privately, I do agree that they shouldn't be on hte NHS)

I can't see the problem. Ironically, in my ante natal class, I was the only person who, from day 1, has wanted a CS, but very very FAR from the only person who demanded one close to the end of their pregnancy or ended up with a traumatic emergency CS.

My body, my baby, my choice.

I didn't see any of the needles so I can't tell you how big they were... crazy odd sensation though, it doesn't hurt, it's more like pressure, then a warm sensation spreads down your bum and legs and they help you to lie down. Then it's like everything below your waist doesn't exist. Surreal!

I really wish I'd asked for the screen to be lowered, I thought I'd see my innards and be freaked out, but in reality lying flat can you see the tops of your pubes? I can't, and that's where my incision was. I could see some reflections in the theatre lights, kinda pinky red bits, but nothing dreadful. I would love to have seen ds coming out as they took him away to be bagged and tagged and he came back clean and dressed. Next time I will definitely ask to see baby with goo and all.

After they'd done all their checks and ds' lungs had been given a bit of suction (normal for cs babies) he was given to me to hold and dh and I sat (well I lay) and stared at him speechless while all the stitching went on. I guess it was about 30 mins but I couldn't really say as it felt like a nanosecond to me. I just stared at my baby and blubbed. Dh took photos and started texting the family, naughty boy!

I don't know about staples, I had stitches, all internal with one bit of suture sticking out where they'd tied the knot and pulled it tight. I did have a female surgeon and do remember her making a comment about a lovely neat scar that won't show when I'm wearing a bikini (fat chance with my tummy!).

Ladtthompson, sorry we x-posted.

The spinal is a tiny thin wire type thing that goes into your back from what I can remember, not a huge needle.

Basically, you'll go into the preparation room (DP wasn't allowed in there, so they sent him to get food) they put a drip in you and a catheter so they can give you anything if your heart beat lowers during the op, then they get you to sit on the side of the bed, leant over, and put the spinal/epidural in your back, they then lay you down and keep testing where you are numb, once you are numb enough they take you through to the theatre.

Then they will send someone t get your partner if he isnt already there, he wil sit next to you, they do the op. They then take baby out and ask if you ant it straight on you or cleaned, I ahd him on me, with a towel over him for about 15minutes, whilst they sewed me up, they then took him to be weighed and asked if I wanted him dressing, and dressed him for me. DP was still here at this point, once I was sewn up they took dp back to the ward and changed me from the theatre bed to a comfy bed (that was the worst bit, they roll you in a sheet and you feel like you're going to fall on the floor) then they put baby back in my arms and took us donw to my room where DP was waiting. All in all from the beginning of the op to me being back in my room it took about an hour, and DP was away from me for about 3minutes whilst they moved me from the bed.

I guess everywhere's different, I was prepped for the spinal in theatre, dh didn't leave my side at all, even in recovery. I wasn't parted from ds either, he was in my arms from the second he was born (well after he'd been tagged) until he was prised out of my grip by dh who wanted to cuddle him

"...you are wrong about our care being worse..."

Erm... Have you read the statistics? American rich die on average five years sooner than British poor.

Watch Sicko, The Business of Being Born or Morgan Spurlock's 30 Days on Minimum Wage.

Hi Youcannotbeserious, I am curious - why do you think an elective cs shouldn't be available on the NHS? My big sister had a hugely traumatic vb with her first child - 4th degree tear and all sorts. She said she felt mutilated and had bad pnd, which impacted on her marriage (her husband ended up leaving her for a while). For any subsequent baby, a private elective cs wasn't an option for her. Would you have denied her an elective cs for her next baby on the NHS?? Not being aggressive - as I say, just very curious!

And thanks Victoriansqalor - I didn't realise it was so quick!

I wasn't parted from DS eaither, except for the moving me from bed to bed as they dressed and weighed him.

However, DS1 was a different matter, and a flipping farce IMO. It would be worth having a birth plan for CS to avoid the crap I went through with DS1 tbh.

Personally I don't think ELCS should be available on the NHS without real medical need tbh, and by real medical need I include psychological conditions, but I don't include because someone had a CS previously (especially if it was for breech birth or something).

The baby has to come out, and if it can't be done naturally, or has huge risks naturally then I think, yes, offer a CS, but our bodies were made to do this job and as such we should give it the chance rather than have major abdominal surgery.

No, sorry, I didn't make myself clear...

I meant for my situation: First baby, no obvious medical reason I couldn't have a natural delivery, there are reasons I want to have an EL CS (which I've gone through with my consultant and he's OK with).

Of course, for a woman who has a medical need - whether that be physical, or physchological (sorry, SP?), then yes, that's different and needs to be considered.

FWIW, My best friend had a similar birth experience and ended up with bery bad PND as a result. So bad, that even though her DH wants another child, the only option she can currently consider is adoption.

I haven't read all of this thread as it would take all day but I can take a guess how its progressed. I had an emergency cs, a situation brought about in my opinion by an unnecessary induction, but I can't turn the clock back. Whilst the health of my ds was and is paramount I have never quite recovered from the way he came into the world. My overwhelming memory of labour and birth is of fear - I'd never had any sort of surgical procedure so to be told after 18 hours of induced labour, that this was going to happen scared the crap out of me.

My recovery was quite difficult and eight months on the sadness isn't fading. I feel I let him down by allowing him to be forced before he was ready because of NHS deadlines.

Every woman should be allowed to make birth choices without censure but I personally regret having a cs (although, obviously not the healthy outcome for my ds) and the fact that it massively increases the chances of future children being delivered that way.

I wish you all the luck with whatever course of action you choose to take.

"And before anyone else jumps on me and starts shouting about 'natural birth nazis' etc"

Fabsmum, I think that whole post sums it up. Sections shouldn't be about "I don't feel like it" or "If I let this patient labour, I'm going to miss golf" (I'm being extreme there, but I spent 1/4 of my pregnancy on a maternity ward and know more women end their labour in section at the end of a week because the doctor said if he didn't then he would have to over the weekend). It should be about medical need.

The section saved my daughters life and as much as I resent everything I went through, I have to be grateful. I asked someone on here a couple of weeks ago what would have happened if I had delivered naturally, she said (in my own words) the pressure on the brain would have been too much. There are a lot of genuine reasons why women need them, but they aren't actually that common, which some posters seem to be suggesting.

Sadly, VS the 'mediacl need' may not be obvious in the ante-natal timeframe, or indeed even during early labour.

My instinct with DS1 was that it would not be an easy labour, based on my hunch that he would have a huge head like his dad. I would not tolerate a difficult labour, with me being mutilated, left incontinent or DS hypoxic and potentially brain damaged. So I got my lovely elec CS (and it was a fabby experience). Afterward, the consultant said to be 'thankful' that I had not laboured as there was no way DS1 was coming out ( he was transverse and needed a ventouse even with the CS).

Opted for another CS for DS2. Scans missed a partial praevia and placental insufficiency. The surgeon nearly cut through the placenta (wasn't expecting it so low down). If I had waited to labour, he said there was a high risk that DS2 would have beed still born as the placenta had started to fail.

haven't caught up with messages added today but have followed this thread with interest, i hadnt realised what an issue it was.

JIVEGIRL - just wanted to say that you MUST do whatever feels right for you at the time. i had a traumatic time with dd, an emcs after about 12hrs labour, failed ventouse; she was OP and eventually went into distress. she didnt breathe for around 7 mins when she was born and it was the longest time of my life while they 'got her going'. there is no way now i could mentally go through a VBAC and quite frankly, knowing that a cs saved dd's life the first time, i would be at the front of the cs queue if dc 2 arrives. about 2 weeks later, i remember a 'friend' saying 'oh, i wouldn't have wanted a cs' - she did have the decency to blush when i pointed out that dd wouldnt be here if i hadnt!
good luck, i hope you ( they!)come to a decision you are happy with.

Oh my goodness, Highlander. Food for thought. I've got to have a caesarian, as it happens, but after seeing what happened to my poor sis I can't deny that I might have wanted one anyway. That's not to say I am not delighted to hear about people having wonderful vb's and I know lots of people do. I am acutely aware of the NHS's strapped resources, but 'each according to his need', that's what I say...

I used to live that side of the pond, so I do know more than what I've got from films. If a healthcare system is to work it should work the same for all and I know far too many people who have been failed because their insurance didn't cover them.

Take my illness for example. I take daily aspirin, it's a lifesaver for me. I have strokes on a regular basis amongst a lot of other things. I have American friends with the same condition who can't have Aspirin because it is preventative. They don't have full cover on the condition so they have to pay thousands instead when they do have a stroke or a PE or a DVT or a DAT or a heart attack or any of the other things this horible disease does to people.

This condition is congenital but people don't always get an early diagnosis - in fact I have American friends who avoid getting treatment for their children because a diagnosis will spell disaster for their insurance so they end up buying their kids Aspirin or not taking them to the doctor when they know they're having an event - so the insurance company won't pay up because they had symptoms before.

I didn't get that from Sicko

The British system isn't perfect but I can see how many times mine and my daughter's lives has been saved by it and I know from friends where we would have died in America. My disability means I can't work and have never paid NIC, but I have a good home, full treatment for what is wrong with me under the second best doctor in the coutry for this illness (first being the prof who discovered it), my daughter was born in a hospital that is like a hotel who kept me in for 1/4 of my pregnancy for "reassurance".

Compare statistics like for like. MORE people get treated here, people live longer here. If you don't like it then go back to the perfect system you have in America!

Hi ladythompson. My husband was with me throughout my c section, from the prep to being wheeled out of theatre to recovery. I think he thought me being given the epidural was the worse part. In theatre all the staff were excellent. My husband sat down so he coudl hold my hand and they put a screen up. When baby was delivered they asked him if he wanted to stand up to see her. I do not remember any smell or squelching and my husband has not mentioned anything of the sort. As far as I am aware, the staff will always put a screen up so he won't see anything he doesn't want to see!

Good luck to you both.