Vaginal Birth or Elective Section?

[VictorianSqualor]

What would you reccommend a first time mother and why??

ruty, can you go to a different hospital this time?

www.birthchoices.uk.com gives you info on all hospitals in the UK

seems like lack of care and lack of empathy are major factors in determining how women look back on a birth and prepare for a birth.

doulas can be very helpful in that respect.

I still really really do think that women should not in any way, be given the option for a cs! Where did it become a '4th' choice?VB, ELCS(eg for previous, breech, whatever), EMCS and one cos you fancy one/fits in??

Incompetence, too, Lulu.

The final straw for me came when I was offering to speak French or Spanish with the consultant because he had so little English.

I have had both and would recommend an elective CS every time. Not saying I am right, but it is what I would honestly recommend. I had to have a CS for medical grounds (owing by the damage done to me by my previous VB) but even had I not had that damage, I would still rate a CS over a VB.

I also found the recovery much easier after a CS than after a VB.

I know that lots of people produce stats on what is safer, but my understanding is that doctors consider the CS to be safer for the baby but riskier for the mother. There are I believe different medical pro's and cons to both.

I agree with carmenelectra. The medical intervention is there if yon need it in an emergency but apart from that natural birth should be the only choice, even if it doesn't fit in with parents schedules

I disagree completely, mrsR.

Some people are emotionally scarred by the treatment they have received from the NHS.

It certainly didn't help me and there but the for the grace of Prozac go I . . .

We don't force women to continue pregnancies they don't want, so why force them to give birth the way they don't want?

ruty-where do you live? There are birthing centres opening in some areas which are m/w led and have a romm for dh/p and older children to stay over.

Since I started the original (other) thread that kicked off this discussion too, I'm going to give my views here.

Leaving all my personal issues aside, I feel very strongly that the pressure, the lack of choice and the 'moralising' around the issue of childbirth is unlike anything else in the medical arena. Recently, a member of my close family was treated for cancer and he had to decide on what type of treatment he wanted - the choices being surgery or radiotherapy. Both of these options had advantages and disadvantages (and the surgery was much more expensive for the NHS). However, he was given all the information in detail by his oncologist, and then left to make his own choice. In my opinion, childbirth should be no different. It is perfectly possible to inform women about the pros and cons of CS and VB, and then allow them to make their own decisions in conjunction with their midwife and consultant.

But this is very very far from being the actual situation at the moment. And I have to agree with the earlier poster who said that this is really about cost rather than about the mother's welfare. Why else is an element of choice removed for childbirth which is present for nearly all other medical decisions and procedures?

I have to say that I also think that this is a bit of a feminist issue that women should unite behind, rather than squabbling about whether VB or CS is the best option. Women who have a 'genuine medical or psychological need' for a caesarean are considered just about acceptable but why, for example, is it considered unacceptable to say you want to have a caesarean because you're worried about the loss of sexual feeling? Here's a question for you: if men had to go through an ordeal that risked ruining their sex lives, how many of them do we think would actually do this? Does anyone believe we wouldn't have caesareans on demand on the NHS?

It should be all about informed choice - and by that I mean real informed choice, not 'we're going to tell you how horrendous a caesarean can be so you feel pressured to try natural childbirth'.

Bravo, an excellent post!

And I've had two VBs and no csections myself.

It doesn't mean a cs will not be traumatic expat.
Letting a woman choose major surgery over a natural birth when they have experienced neither is ridiculous

"It should be all about informed choice - and by that I mean real informed choice, not 'we're going to tell you how horrendous a caesarean can be so you feel pressured to try natural childbirth'."

maybe look at why you don;t want to experience natural birth?

but it is ok for women to make the choice based on being told how awful vaginal birth is?

you have genuine tokophobia, go for a c.section, but address your fears too

but i persoanlly would hate to see elective c.s offered as a matter of course

i have had one c.s and one v.b BTW

Sorry Martha, I completely disagree.
Most hospitals don't give cs as a choice because it is safer to give birth by vd.
The cost argument doesn't make sense as any hospital will tell you it is possible to schdule many caesereans in the time a natural birth may take- therefore natural birth uses more resources
VD does not effct the sexual sensations it is in fact said to heighten it, which I may say I agree with therefore the med profession would be giving in to unfounded fears
From a feminist pov surely the ownweship of our bodies extends to the birth experience- an empowering and primitive act of nature that sees woman as the giver of life
Then to supply your baby with breastmilk - which is easier after natural birth-another example of women in control, not at the mercy of the medical profession or formuls manafacturers

would this be the right time to discuss orgasmic childbirth

seriously, vaginal birth does not equate to loss of sex life for everyone..

each mode of delivery has pros and cons.

but vaginal birth is safer for mother and baby.

bad or icompetent care is a seperate issue and as i posted earlier , investing in a independent midwife or doula can be a good way to have a more positive birth iwhout opting for c.seciotn

Mrs ruff, agree re: how many CS's you could fit in time it takes for a normal delivery!
Jesus, we usually have 2 or 3 electives by lunch and we could have a labourer all day and all night!

Doesnt anyone wonder why these NHS doctors love their private patients so much?.. Nice quick cs Fri and they then get the weekend off, all being well!

''Nice quick cs Fri and they then get the weekend off, all being well!''

Bl**dy well hope so - that's my plan for my consultant! And he'll have the money for a slap up dinner somewhere smart!!! If I have a healthy baby in my arms, It'll be worth it!

I'll look into those options Lulumama, I'm just dreadig the whole thing at the moment!

i'm really sorry you feel like that ruty.if i can be of any assistance, ask me, and i'll do my best to help !

Well if cancer could be cured 'naturally' in most cases how much choice do you think there would be then?

I've had two caesarians and my sex life is virtually nil - not due to the procedure but because I have two small children! you can't control everything in life I'm afraid.

SMcK - I agree wholeheartedly.

This is exactly how I feel.

Starlight - that's exactly how I feel. I only had one absolute certainty in my birth plan - I did NOT want and instrument delivery unless my baby was in IMMEDIATE danger. I agreed to try natural birth, thinking that I would give it my best shot and if it didn't work out that I would have a section. I gave my all to natural birth, and everything did go wrong and I was bullied into an instrumental, even though all my notes indicate that DD was NOT distressed.

Now my sex life is fucked, because I had an instrumental delivery and a huge episiotomy that I did NOT consent to.

If you went for homebirth/ a doula a lot of those issues would go, too.
I guess with a vd there is an element of the unknown. Personally, I find that beautiful and I loved the sensation of pushing my baby out into the world, amazing how their births were so different
Youcannot- you could pay for an independent midwife instead of a caeserean if that was really why
But hey ho- medicalisation of womens births has it's place, I'msure
At the end of the day, it's the lo's lives that matter anyway so good luck everyone whatever your choice

I don't think anyone would rule out es as a last resort btw but more people I know have been traumatised by those than vd