Vaginal Birth or Elective Section?

[VictorianSqualor]

What would you reccommend a first time mother and why??

Surely it depends on the consultant? wouldn't his values/opinions be the same if we was NHS or private? wouldn't you see the same consultant anyway? (unless it was a totally private hospital)
I don't understand how people can say they would refuse to have a vb - how does that work? you just cross your legs and hold it in? what can you do - hold a consultant hostage at gunpoint if he refuses to do a cs?

Sorry if you dont agree with my argument, but i also dont agree with paying for 'services'. Are we really talking about having a baby here. Slotting appointments in at weekends, having babies on particular days so that DP/DH can be there! Wheres the excitement of waiting for baby to arrive.

And as for having private rooms to allow 'guests', well it sounds like a party, not a birth! with having close family visit for the short time you are there, and having all your guests at home!

A side room is obviously nice, but paying for services is really something else!

hold it in

IME (which isn't much!) the consultant has the same views when he's a private consultant to when he's an NHS consultant BUT.... he has far more options at his disposal.

I suppose when you are private you remove the cost / time implications of a CS and that must be a real factor under the NHS?

Sorry, meant whats wrong with having close family visit and then guests to see you at home!

what is interesting is that we feel that we do have the choice, and we can buy that choice, i wonder if it is a generational thing......? we are savvy consumers in many other ways, is childbirth just catching up..

there are other ways to invest your money in the birth experience, to make it more positive, without going for a c.section

Independent Midwife

doula

hypnobirthing

private ante natal classes and birth preparation

i really hope that 20 years down the line that c.section is the 'norm' and VB is not.

women have evolved to give birth vaginally.

very often, it is the modern attitude and the medicalisation of birth that leads to intervention and increased chance of c.s

a prolonged labour used to be 18 hours, now it is 12 IIRC. the friedman curve was developed to show how birth should go... well, not every woman could or should dilate according to a graph.

treating each labouring woman as an individual would go a long way to helping women have positive birth experiences.

i really hope that 20 years down the line that c.section is thenot* 'norm' and VB is not.

That's great, Carmen... YOu don't agree with paying for services, so don't pay for them.

I do agree with it and am prepared to do so.

It's an individual thing, but I desperately want my DH to be there with me and I want him to stay with me if I'm in overnight. I don't have family / friends close by (not that I'd want with me, IYSWIM). I'm not asking anyone else to compromise themselves to suit me.

This is my choice, and one I am perfectly comfortable with.

"treating each labouring woman as an individual would go a long way to helping women have positive birth experiences"

I would add - treating women with respect and kindness would go even further.
It makes me weep with misery and frustration to hear women say (as they say all the time) "It's good I was in hospital, because I needed forceps/a section" when the fact of being in hospital and the treatment received there has caused the interventions
it isn't just a case of terrible VB or elective section.
we should work on improving the birth experience for all

yeargh!!

you get my point!!
hope VB will remain the norm

I too, hope vaginal birth will remain the norm, but i do worry that people thinking slotting their births in to suit them, will mean it soon wont be!

Do people really think penciling in an induction to suit means they will get their baby that day? More like a failed induction and emergency CS !

I just think its sad, that maternity services is another thing you can buy. In my limited expereince of private patients at work and watching the shocking Portland programmes on TV, then id sooner not have another baby than have one like that!

Carmen, having two young children who I know would be desperate to see that their mother was ok (DD is a bit concerned that it might hurt me) and their new sibling means a private room for me, is something I feel I need.

I do not want other people having to put up with the noise they will make, nor do I want to have to be worried about them whilst I am in a hospital bed.

And I do not want to have my sleeping baby woken by other peoples visitors if I have been up all night with it like I was the first two nights with DS. If it wasn't for my side room I would have had no sleep as he chose only to sleep durng visiting hours, which were able to be worked around him as I wasn't in the main ward.

It has nothing to do with having a party.

i would be wary of endorsing the choice if a first time mum to have a c.s, unless of course, genuine tokophobia. but i would always recommend some form of counselling before the birth, whether elective c.s or not.

i have supported women who have elected for c.s, not just as a doula, but as BTA volunteer

it is when c.s is a kneejerk reaction to being told bad things about birth, that i worry.

becasue c.s is not the easy answer , nor does it address underlying fears or worries.

i posted on the other thread that i felt the OP should and could get a c.s on the NHS

it is so much more of a complex issue than c.section or vaginal and a lot of it comes down to LACK OF MIDWIVES AND LACK OF CARE

I used to wonder about people wanting a csection.

Then I had the misfortune of utterly crap, incompetent care from midwives and consultants in the NHS and I can 100% understand now.

I want nothing to do with it myself and am seriously freaking out and considering all sorts of options - even going abroad.

I think it should be up to the woman to make an informed choice, and if she's got the dosh to go private to get what she wants without the hassle, good on her!

Personally I worry that those who have not had a CS, and believe it is the easy route as they do not want to go through VB have no real idea to what they are getting into.

We have all seen and heard a million and one VB stories, we kind of know what is going to happen, and can imagine the type of feelings we are likely to go through.

No-one could have prepared me for how out of control, scared and utterly dsesperate I felt whilst on the operating table with DS.

IMO, that is the informed choice missed out on when people opt for el cs.

You do have a point there, Carmen... I agree that the chances of an induction going smoothly are slim... which is why I'll almost certainly choose an el CS.

I don't feel even the slightest compunction to have a baby to fit someone else's needs / wants / agenda, so while I appreciate your concern, it's not going to affect my decision remotely.

Here, here, VS!

It's your body, your baby, your choice.

"
Do people really think penciling in an induction to suit means they will get their baby that day? More like a failed induction and emergency CS !"

i know that to my own personal cost!

Induced at 39 + 1 for APH, bishops score of 5, ARM, synto, diamorphine & epidural ,all at 2-3 cm . i spent my entire labour in bed.

and guess what?!??!?!

i had a c.s

have had this conversation with various medics recently, and they are constanly treading a line between reducing social inductions, and not upsetting their patients, who are coming in at 38 , 39 weeks begging for induction as they are tired, uncomfy, have SPD, and want the baby out now. explaining about the risk of failed indcution and c.s is not something women always want to hear.

i thikn we are getting so used to sceduling things, and getting what we want on demand, that actually waiting for something, and having the anticipation of it, is quite alien now!

i had a friend who helpfully advised me to have an elective with DD as i could get my hair done the day before! !?

Sorry, I meant, Youcantbe .

No i agree, i wasnt referring to you VS. I was referring to the poster who wanted her own 'guests' to be able to come.

Maybe its just me but when i had my babies, i hardly hardy anyone visit. Just short visits from close family and then anyone else when i got home the next day. Obviously its different if yopu are not well and are in for a while.

I had a side room with ds2 with ensuite etc, but i didnt ask and i wouldnt have paid. It was lovely and the midwives did it as a nice gesture. I wouldnt have minded being on a ward either though.

induction can go very well, if done at the right time..which is usually post 40 weeks

Lol expat I did wonder what on earth you were talking about then!

CArmen,

As I've explained, my 'guests' are my DH.

He's the only person I want present but I want him to be able to stay with me in my room overnight if needs be.

I'm ever so glad you had a side room and you didn't have to pay. That does sound lovely and if it were the 'norm' I wouldn't be paying either. But it's not.

I personally feel the help available to me on the NHS is shockingly bad. I can't go to evening appts, because they are for couples only and, because my DH is abroad, I am classed as a single mum and have been booked for a 1 day course. That's it. I don't have friends close and I do feel very isolated / lonely. I do struggle to take time off work (please don't lecture me about the law. I work contract and have already been given notice to leave. my contract will not be extended after my baby is due. Taking time off is not something I can do easily).

I haven't taken the decision to spend £5K+ on the birth of my baby because I've got too much money and / or I have millions of friends who just HAVE to pop in.

I've already justfied myself far more than I feel I should have to and won't do so anymore.

Lulu,

Ive lost count of the amount of people trying to 'blag' their way to a 'social induction', in fact i had one the other evening! I always have a really good chat to them , when i realise what they are up to and tell them how it might really go if they are not ready to labour.

To be fair, i never see doctors agree to inductions for social reasons(on the NHS anyway, privately these same doctors do)