Going around in circles about next labour - LONG

[BabiesEverywhere]

I DON?T EXPECT ANYONE TO READ THIS STUPIDLY LONG POST, I JUST NEED TO GET THIS DOWN ON PAPER AND SO I CAN PROCESS IT AND MOVE FORWARD.

I have just received a card detailing my blood issues Rhesus Positive with E antibodies. I need to carry during my pregnancy and for some reason this has really pushed me over the edge and I can?t stop crying.

I knew things would not be straight forward this time because of how my daughter entered the world.

Last time I was forced into hospital, as my anti-homebirth community midwife refused to come out to me and when the hospital tested me they thought I was Strep B and I had to be admitted. My labour stopped in the hospital as I was so scared. Started to induce me, I was tied to a bed with continuous monitoring.

I begged them to take it off and they refused (I now know we should of told them to fuck off ) They told me they thought I would be endangering my baby if I didn't lie still on my back with drip etc Because I couldn't move even an inch onto my side the pain was unbearable, leading to the 'classic waterfall inventions', so I ended up with drugs and a spinal thing. I pushed for 3 hours on the midwifes instructions.

Baby got distressed. So after 19/20 hours in labour in hospital (after a slow labour at home for a couple of days) they take me into surgery. I am very frightened of hospital at the best of times and being operated on whilst being awake and feeling it is my worst nightmare. They kept saying can I feel this cold thing on my leg, I said yes but they tell me I can't feel it. Why bloody ask me if you are going to ignore the answer?

I can still feel everything and they are talking about cutting me open, I am so terrified, my husband was outside the surgery room, I can hardly catch my breath. Eventually they let DH in and they say they will try forceps first and manage to rip my baby out that way. I touch her on her back for one brief second and they take her away, I feel very cold and start shaking

I don't remember the next few hours/days. Apparently I lost several pints of blood and had ripped one end to the other, had a blood transfusion and transferred to a HDU ward. All I remember is drifting in and out of consciousness, hearing beeping of machines and alarms going off and wires everywhere and a horrible mask on my face. I could hear my baby but I couldn?t reach her and the pain was terrible.

I have photos DH took of my DD and me in that ward, I can't look at them. I am 'not there' and have no memory of that time. Supposedly the first precious moments with my baby, I never gave birth, she was just ripped out of me.

I never had PND and bonded well with my DD and established breastfeeding (despite a midwife saying that mothers like me who have bad experiences, don't breastfeed). I rarely talk about what happened in hospital in real life, I avoid references to 'giving birth' and tend to withdraw when other mother talk about their labours. I have flashbacks and nightmares about what happened, though they had lessened over the last 17 months. At the start I would be crying daily and now I go weeks without it popping into my mind uninvited.
I eventually months later, did talk to the hospital about what happened and they had someone come out and go though my medical records with me, to fill in some of my blank memories.

When DD was 6 months old I thought I was accidentally pregnant and I was terrified and I wrote this entry in my blog at the time shows my state of mind at the time.
Blog Page

I thought I had made my peace with accepting that I would have to risk enduring the same experience for a second child if I went to hospital and I expected to book a private midwife so I could try to have a home birth otherwise. So with that in mind we TTC and got pregnant again and apart from a bit of bleeding I have had a good 12 weeks and no worries.

Yesterday we went for a scan and despite the bleeding we saw a healthy very active baby on the screen and I was so happy I cried

But when speaking to the midwife after the scan, she mentioned the problems in my blood. I am Rhesus Positive but have Anti-D and Anti-E antibodies in my blood, properly due to my blood transfusion. They will properly cause no problems but might cross and attack the baby if baby is a certain blood type. So I need blood tests every 4 weeks to check the antibody levels in my blood and according to the unexpected letter this morning I should carry this card whilst being pregnant.

The consultant said the heavy bleeding I had last time meant I shouldn't have a home birth, very reluctant about water birth, monitoring etc. The midwife agreed with me that being in hospital and being starved, lying on my back and the long labour and pushing for 3 hours and the cut, made me bleed and I would be at no more likely to bleed than anyone else if I have a normal labour and were more willing to comprise about water birth and monitoring etc. The midwife even said they would consider a home birth if I tested Strep B negative at 37 weeks and had no other problems but what is the chance of that happening.

However the last hospital said they would follow a birth plan and not tie me to a bed and they lied. Can I trust these people even if they are in a different hospital ? Even if they intended to follow an agreed plan, I can see everything changing if anything I do is not 'textbook' and no one has a textbook labour.

I still want a private midwife but we don't have enough money in our savings and our budget is so tight, I doubt we can save up the remainder needed in time. Also what if I went with a private midwife and ended up in hospital away. What a waste of money? Though for the chance of a normal labour I would spend every penny we had, we just don't have enough pennies. So although I pencilled in an independent midwife it looks like I will have to cancel her services.

The midwife did suggest an elective C-section under a spinal as a good alternative. I started crying, I couldn't find the words to explain how bad I felt. Luckily my DH realised I couldn't speak and he explained that was my ultimate nightmare and he was sure I was willing to do anything to avoid that particular scenario.

I am cross that because I was forced into hospital last time, it has caused many issues for this pregnancy. As the community midwife said ironically last time I was a perfect candidate for a home birth but now I am too much of a risk.

The midwife seems to be worried that I will crack up emotionally nearer the labour date and insisted I take details for a counsellor. I don't need a counsellor, talking will not make a difference to the past, I have tried it and it makes me will worse and weak. I just want to move forward and put practical things in place so maybe I will be able to give birth this time. I need to figure what I should do for the best.

I want to do the right thing but I don't know what that is. I just want to stay as far away from hospital as possible. But I don't want to bleed to death at home and despite being told it shouldn't be a problem, the antibodies in my blood and all the additional blood tests are scaring me.

I am just spinning around in circles

i know i don't know you but you are describing clear symptoms of post traumatic stress, not uncommon after the experience you had. please consider talking to someone to help you get through this pregnancy and plan for birth

Firstly congratulations on the pregnancy

But OMG, you poor thing

I don't really know if I have the right advice for you, but as a midway between home and hospital, do you have one of those midwife led unit places? It is kind of like an 'at home setting' but with better resources for any emergency that may or may not happen.

You need Lulu and Marsy. They will know.

I will keep an eye out for them and bump when they are around, if they don't see this first.

Don't know what else to say, just really for you.

Yes, we have a midwife led unit, a brand new one. But because of last time I will not be allowed to go there says the consultant.

I should say the midwife suggested maybe a home birth might be possible and then the consultant overuled and said it wouldn't and that I should be in hospital.

A good counsellor won't make you worse. A good counsellor will help you work through your post-traumatic stress, which is what you are suffering.

On the birth front, you KNOW that you can carry a baby to term and give birth to it. That is a MASSIVE piece of positive knowledge that you will be carrying into your second birth, and that will give you A LOT OF CONFIDENCE that you didn't have the first time.

I think that if you discuss all of this with your DH, and if you both agree on a plan of attack, and if you see a cousellor and discuss some of these things, then you will be well on the way to a positive outcome.

Babieseverywhere, I have seen you around a lot and I know what a fantastic mummy you are - congratulations on your pregnancy. You can going to love being a mummy of 2 and you are going to have a wonderful time!

Good luck - I'm sure some more people will be around to give you good advice soon.

Thanks Morningpaper

Am so sorry to read of your experience, and the long term effects of the traumatic time you went through.

As you have already given birth, this delivery shouldn t be as difficult. I can see why the consultant wants you to have a hospital birth due to the events of last time, but thats the advice s/he would give.

How about meeting with the midwifery manager of the delivery suite to explain your situation, and between you you may be able to come up with a birth plan that enables you to be on the birthing suite. I guess that depends on how far away the birthing suite is from delivery suite.

A hospital birth is probaly the most sensible option for you, considering your previous delivery and the physical effects you suffered afterwards but for your peace of mind throughout this pregnancy I would try to meet with the senior midwife and have something in your notes about last times events and how you want to try to manage this labour and delivery. If you go in in spontaneous labour, with no other indications to monitor your baby you should be allowed to progress normally and with no need for intervention.

All the very best to you, congratulations on your pregnancy and try to enjoy it, but I know how hard that can be with the inevitable delivery at the end(but the end result another beautiful baby of course!)

I'm so sorry to hear about the dreadful experience you had, (((HUGS)))

Firstly, you really need to speak to the Birth Trauma Association about your first birth, secondly for this pregnancy you need to get a birth advocacy group like AIMS fighting your corner in order to get the birth you want.

No matter what the consultants and midwives say it is your body and your baby and you have final say as to how and where you give birth.

BabiesEverywhere,

Please talk to someone to sort through your fears. You shouldn't have to carry this pain in your heart.

That being said. You can have a good hospital birth. I have had wonderful experiences. It is a matter or knowing what you want/need, and knowing when to tell other people to f-off.

Definitely think of a doula to be with you during your labor. I think it will help you to have a developed relationship with someone who can help advocate for you.

Congratulations on your pregnancy.

Oh sweetheart

you did give birth you know. You may not feel that way, but you did.

Just wish there was something I could do

babieseverywhere, you really need to talk to someone about this. def worth contacting birth trauma, and also it is worth going back to the hospital and asking to see either the head of midwifery or a midwife counsellor. they will be able to talk you through your notes and why everything happened. you need to do this before thinking about your next birth.

If I can be of any help please cat me or mail me at [email protected]

wishing you well.

cx

I have already spoken to someone on the phone and they came out to my house and saw me from Birth Crisis I think. Last year.

I have also already had a person doing the 'afterthoughts' thing, when they came out and went though my notes.

It made zero difference to how I feel. No I go back on that...it just made me feel worse.

I wouldn't be posting about this apart from it is pretty much anonoymous, I only know a couple of people in RL on Mumsnet and it is much easier to type, I don't want to talk to people in RL about things which upset me.

Talking more about the past which is unchangeable is pointless. I need to decide how I cope with what will happen in six months time. I thought I was alright about this, but being back in a hospital opened the floodgates.

I need to know what I can fight for, this time around...if anything. Or do I just accept I will have the same issues and let them do the same things to me. After all it is only 19 hours of pain followed by a few days in hospital and I don't remember some of it. Plus it should be faster this time, unless it is another labour goes off and induced. Many people suffer much more of a daily basis and hopefully (fingers crossed)I should end up with our baby out of this.

Babieseverywhere - I can understand why you find this hard to talk about in real life - revisiting it must bring back such anger and hurt. Unfortunately in order to birth this baby successfully, you probably have to get over the last one.

A couple of things: I have a blood disorder which is quite rare and it's been recommended I have this baby (a VBAC hopefully) in hospital because of it. I'm agreeing to this only on the basis that my rules are followed this time and that I take enough supporters with me to enforce what I want.

I'm planning on hiring a doula (a fifth of the cost of an independent midwife) and making sure she is certain what I want and don't want and will help me voice that when I can't.

I'd rather have a home birth -frankly I think both you and I know that both of us could give birth on our own with the minimum of fuss and be happier, but those round us find the risks untenable. So hospital it may have to be but this time:

(1) You have the right to refuse any intervention and you should make it clear from the outset that only things you actually SAY are okay are allowed and if you don't answer that is not implied consent (you can put this on your birthplan).
(2) How is your husband about all this? I'm assuming he's stressed out, worried that you will suffer, that the baby will suffer and that you are in cloud cuckoo land thinking you can give birth naturally (at least that's my DH's current view - nice ) Can you get him onside and voicing your requests?
(3) Request at 34 weeks more bloods - I'm having this done. If you have a haemotological problem it will show up at this point and then you are well informed. Better to know than go blind into a labour where the docs can say there might be a problem and use that as a justification for medicalisation of your baby's birth.

FInally remember this: you will get through all this and come out the other side intact. You sound like you've been through the worst case scenario so in comparison this birth will be easier.

{{whomovedmychocolate}} You seem to have your head screwed on right. You really understand how I feel, thankyou for that.

Bloods wise I will be tested every 4 weeks for the rest of the pregnancy, so if this blood issue gets any worse we'll know.

My husband is hard to read. He is supportive but I think he found it hard to deal with what happened last time and he is leaning to wanting to be in hospital. He hasn't said that directly to me, as he knows how much that is not what I want. He reassures me that it will be different and he knows what to do if we end up in hospital.

The thing is, as you properly understand. It is one thing to tell the hospital you don't want X, Y or Z but if they say you are endangering your child, what real choice do you have.

The last hospital went back on their word about montoring.

This hospital midwife first said of course I wouldn't have to have continous monitoring if I didn't want and then 5 minutes later was saying I had the option of a needle in my babies head. How is that better !!!

Can doulas overule midwifes ? Do they know enough to give your supportive in making the right medical decisions whilst you are in labour ? How much are they ?

BabiesEverywhere, I know exactly how you feel, with DD I had an energency CS whilst under a general for something they thought was unrelated, I remember the waking up in hospital not even knowing my baby had been born, for months I didnt bond with her, I couldnt see her for three days, hold her for two weeks, it was a horrible time, and I can completely identify with not feeling 'there' as you put it so well.

With DS they 'made' me have a CS under a local and even though there was nothing wrong with the experience, no problmes, no issues, was doing my first breastfeed within about 40minutes of him being born and had a wonderful experience there, I just cannot handle the thought of surgery again, I can't do it, not unless there is absolutely no other possibility.

I have been told by my cons I should have a CS at 38weeks (have a problem with the blood flow to my placenta) and atm am refusing, thankfully, I have a good team of care and they know my position, I had to break down to my cons to get my point across but she does understand now.

I think the most important thing is to have someone who can stand up for you at any point during labour as a birthing complanion, be it a friend, a doula, a m/w, anyone, I'm using my MIL, she has been briefed on my birth plan, has a copy of it and will not let anyone take over my birthing experience, I know that in certain possible situations I will have to have a CS, but I need to get to that decision myself, not be forced into it.

Do as much research as possible into every little detail you can and be prepared with logical, reasonable, informed arguments to whatever they put to you and they will have to listen to you.

They cannot make you give birth a certain way, that is your chocie and yours alone, they have to respect that and care for you.

Good luck.

Sorry x-posted, if at any time you are told you are endangering your child ask for proof, risks assessments, stats, everything and anything. If you already ahve the research to hand then it may be enough to shut them up.

My DP was extremely nervous about the whole refusal of a CS so I researched, still waiting for the supposed higher risk of stillbirth proof, but he now knows that I am not being unreasonable and has seen the facts and figures himself so can see what the real risks are ratehr than what he heard from the doc.

Doulas are about £500 unless you find one in training and then they are £150 but if you can stump up for one who has a bit of experience she's more likely to be forthright on your behalf.

YOU can over-rule the midwives. To do anything to you without your consent is ASSAULT.

In terms of monitoring, I have said I will have intermittent monitoring every 20 minutes with a doppler. I am not having a bloody machine going 'bing' every five seconds and sharp intakes of breath from all around when a contraction rolls around.

I would make a bargain with your husband, that you will go to the hospital providing he agrees to a doula and that he will support your wishes.

In terms of emotional blackmail in labour, train your supporters to ask the following questions:

(1) What if we delay making this decision for 20 minutes
(2) What are the alternatives to this
(3) What if we do nothing

If you find a consultant OR midwife being coercive, simply ask them to leave and tell them to find someone else to attend you. Threaten them with a complaint, they'll soon shift you off to someone more experienced.

Yes the hospital can say X, Y and Z and in any even, something bad might happen. For example your waters break and the umbilical cord drops out - that can happen in any pregnancy and it's an emergency section from that point on. You can't control everything. But you can control yourself and make smart choices and get support in making sure they happen.

You are moving on from where you were when you had your daughter - you have come a long way. But you have to be brave and decide you will be in the driving seat this time.

You can do this.

Apparantly a doula is a no go. My H says he would rather listen to a doctor.

I can't have a third party, I can't have a home birth.

All I am aiming for is no C-S whilst I am awake. That is my ultimate nightmare. I don't want to be cut open, feeling everything like I did last time.

My husband thinks I have problems, we have just been arguing and I can't stop crying. I need his support and agreement, if he is just going to side with the doctors what is the point.

Maybe I should ask for a C-S under a general at least that way a decision will be made and I won't be awake.

I do love him, I just feel trapped. I can't seem to have an control over my body. I feel like I have already failed and I am no where near the end.

VictorianSqualor, I do hope your upcoming birth goes well.

BabiesEverywhere, does he understand the full extent of the situation? I know DP still doesnt 'get it' he has just agreed to follow my lead so to speak.

Is there no way you can get a doula (even a trainee) but agree with DH that you will listen to what the doctors say, you just feel you need someone there who is uninvolved to look out for your emotional needs??

I've had to agree to listen to what they say and not be 'stubborn' about my birth etc but I stropped, hugely, and cried, tons, and tols him that I refused to go to the hospital if he wouldnt support me

He is scared of things going wrong.

I told the midwife about the flashbacks and nightmares I have, he didn;t realise how bad I have been feeling. I guess I hide things well and he now thinks he has a crazy pregnant wife who need help

I am starting to think a planned c-section with a full general anesthesia might be the way to go. OK, I'll be in hospital and have an operation but at least I will be asleep.

They can't force me to have a spinal and stay awake for it, can they ? I just couldn't cope with that, I know loads of people do, but I honestly could not cope.

How quickly do you think I could get out of hospital afterwards ?

We don't have the money for a doula. TBH my DH is upset that I don't think he will be be to make the decisions if I can't. I tried to explain that doula/indep midwives can help us make medical decisions but he think we need to relay on the doctors for that stuff.

babieseverywhere, if you are anywhere near me, i will be your doula. i also have some great info your DH could read beforehand, then we could take it from there.

i would dearly love to help you, and if you are nowhere near me, i will find you a doula.

doula uk operate a system whereby they will pay a doula some expenses, but this isnt about the money, everybody is in a different situation. i would truly love to help. if your dh isnt keen on the actual labour support maybe i can 'doula' from afar.

please consdier, take a look at my website if you like, and if your dh/you want more info mail me.

i really want to help you babieseverywhere, please accept some help and im sure your next birth can be alot more of a positive experience.

please email me at [email protected]

cxxxxxxx

Thanks hertsnessex

Sadly I am nowhere near you, I'm in the North West, not sure if we are classed as Lancashire or Greater Manchester.

I have re-looked at the doula UK site and I see they offer reduced rates to families on benefits. However this does not apply to us, we are just a one income family and I am a SAHM.

We are just a normal family with no extra money, we live day to day but don't do holidays and other extras.

However if you have information which might be useful to read, I would be grateful to receive it, I'll email you shortly about this.

Love your website, very easy to use