Why are Mothers-to-be treated like idiots in the Labour Ward???

[Toothache]

This question has been bugging me for a while. I was already in hospital when I my waters broke with DS. I had been in for a few days with high BP and was 39wks when they broke. It was 3am and waddled to the MW station and told them my waters had gone. They said "No they haven't, just go back to bed"!!!! I INSISTED that my waters HAD broke and they made me hand over my sanitory towel so they could check it. NICE! My waters had broken.
A few hours later the backache kicked in, then contractions. I told them I was in labour and they said "No you're not, it could take hours to get into established labour, go eat your breakfast." As I panted my way through another big contraction then waddled back to bed. Half an hour later I tried to phone DH, midwives STILL insisting that I wasn't in labour. I got a huge contraction and nearly fell in the corridor. A Consultant had some firm words with the Midwives and I was given an internal. I was 4-5 cm dilated and whisked off to the labour ward!!

WHY DIDN'T THEY LISTEN TO ME??????????

Another example:
I got a phonecall from a friend yesterday. Her friend was due her 2nd baby 2 wks from now. She went into labour at home and her boyfriend took her to hopsital. They examined her, told her she wasn't in labour, but that she had a UTI and would kept in for the night. She said "Are you sure, I've had a baby before and this feels like labour". They insisted she wasn't in labour and sent her boyfriend away to fetch her some things. They ran her bath to help with the pain of her "UTI" and 30mins later her baby's head was delivered as she was wrenched from thebath in agony! Healthy 8lb girl. Boyfriend missed everything. .

WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY don't they listen mothers??????

grumble for the day.... anybody else any experience of this?

HMB, I think what is emerging here (and on other threads) is more than a string of disconnected, one-off incidents. What posters with negative experiences are talking about does appear to show a very common attitude and pattern of treatment. IMO this deserves to be heard and though about, not censored. If nurses were talking about their experience of being assaulted on a medical discussion board - why it happened, who did it and how it affected them - it wouldn't IMO be awfully helpful for someone to pop up and say, well, the important thing here is that most patients are not violent. Women have to have places to talk about the bad things that happen to them.

I spent all my pregnancy telling the midwife that it is very common in my family to have babies by cesarean as they tend to be very big and it is very common in the family that the channel is too narrow to deliver a big baby (All cousins and sister delivered by cesarean, mum and aunts had their babies induced at 8m for the same reason) But she insisted that I was very tall and the baby didn't look to be very big anyway. The labour took around 25 hrs, and after such a long of time the baby started to suffer (he poo inside) and when the ward midwife said the heart beats have gone worringly down I couldn't help it and said "I knew it was going to happen!" so she started having a go at me rather than calling the doctor, when I finally apologised (just because I worried she was loosing such a long time), she called the doctor but in the mean time a couple of other midwifes shown and rather than do something they started to have a go at each other about their respective performances. Then the stupid doctor arrived, and I say stupi because she droped a ring on the floor and rather than sort out my situation she spend a couple of minutes looking for it under the table (DH found it ) and then she proceeded to take out DS. At the end of all this mess DR said that there was no way that the baby could have come naturally, he was far too big!!! (of course, lots of damage down there...)

No time to read whole thread now, but find generally that the NHS starts by treating you as if you are stupid, you have to show your intelligence to get them to treat you as if you understand.

I just felt that the discussion was moving towards a general condemnation of medics, and I didn't think that was helpful either. And for about the 6th time I have never, ever, posted anything that sugested that anyone should not post about their experiences.

And I also feel that I have the right to post positive experinces about medics, along with the bad ones that I have also mentioned.

...and when DS started chocking due to a defect in his voice box, it took them 2 months to apreciate that "mum was not panicking" and arranged for DS operation.

The Hp's I've had for my four deliveries have been okay, esp with the later two pg's, when attitudes started changing for the better (believe it or not, pg and childbirth is improved from the 1970's model!!).

But my sil had a bad experience with her dd1. She was already in hospital when she went into labour. She begged for pain relief for 45mins but was denied it because they didn't believe her. Then when her waters broke they said it was too late to have anything to help!! Baby was born 45mins after that.

Over the years I've found that a way to get the best from your dr/mw (and not just wrt to having a baby) is to convey from the start that you have some understanding and knowledge of the issues. Asking a pertinent question or two right at the beginning of the appt can set the ground rules, and signifies that you're not a pushover. When ds2 was suffering from severe asthma one of our dr's used to reckon I knew more about the condition than he did, because I was always up-to-date with the latest research etc.

I would agree 100% with what you have said suedonim. That isn't to say that it lets the doc's off for poor communication tho.

I have had one or two bad experiences, but on the whole all the of the medics I have delt with over dh's three illnesses, my m/c and fertility treatment and subsequent pregnancies and my mother's dementia have been very supportive and not at all patronising.

aloha, i completely agree with your post of 4.45 - these kind of comments are just not helpful here. it is so true about having a place to talk about these things uncensored and safe. unfortunately IRL i have had my story frequently challenged by people (motivated i assume for competitive reasons) and i have recently had to abandon the ante natal classes run by my independent midwives - because they are mixed first timers and second timers and i literally could not bear it and felt i had to be constantly suppressing my own experiences for two reasons (1) not to scare the first timers and (2) not being believed - it happens as this thread shows. someone said anyone who posted here was "dwelling on the negative at the expense of the positive" FGS!!

oh and 3 yrs on i can't talk about the labour without crying. the fact that many people have had good experiences is all well and good - but it says nothing to me about my life, as the song says.

Serenequeen, I hope that you haven't read my posts as trying to get you not to post your awful experiences, that was not my intention. Or that I have doubted your experience in any way, shape or form, or devalued it's severity or impact on you.

Aloha - I haven't read the whole thread but yes there is a well-documented link between women being "mis-treated" (what ever that is.... i.e. for some women it takes little to reach that point and for others they can "take" a lot before they feel they were midhandled) and post traumatic stress disorder which is OFTEN mis-diagnosed for PND and therefore dealt with anti-depressants.... which is not what is needed as it "masks" the problem and doesn't treat it. It's a big issue and it's under-reported and misunderstood (becasue misdiagnosed).
As for the elective as the solution... what about women who have post op problems and are not believed either ! Have seen that too!

Toothache - there are doulas who work for very small fees (or free even).... depends on the circumstances. There is a harsdship fund within Doula UK to help families.

Toothache, didnt type much earlier because ds was bashing my computer chair with thomas the tank in a bid to get me off of the computer!
Totally agree with what you have said, my birthing experience was so bad and the conditions so awful (too long to go into detail and too many complaints!!) that it put me off having a 2nd child for a while. It took me a long while to get over it as I thought that it would be so different. I am hell bent on having my next child at home if I can!
I hope you are feeling better, dont give up on mumsnet. take care x

sorry to go off topic toothache, thats very interesting Pupuce, I was told by my HV she couldnt understand why i didnt show classic PND symptoms , as the doctor diagnosed it, but I had all the symptoms of PTSD. flashbacks , fear of death of me or baby etc. I still feel sick when I think back. but its easier as I would never have been able to write this 2 months ago.I felt very very stripped of a wonderful moment in my life as it turned into a very very frightening and very intensly traumatic time. I still dont know if I have been wrongly diagnosed.

Can you ask for a second opinion melsy?

Will Ive actually started to see another doctor at my surgery and she seems quite willing to listen to whats happened to me , as she has reffered me to a PMT specialist. Ihavent yet mentioned my thoughts on wether I have or Had PND or not. Good point HMB thank you.

Worth asking, and I'm sure that your taking control in the positive way that you have will have benefits by itself.

Well I need to thank my hypnotherpist for turning me to a more postive way of looking at myself and others & finding my inner confidence ,or inner godess (or cleopatra IFYWIM!!) as others would say . Thank you for the reinforcment.

Melsy... have a look : here , here and here

Interesting...I'm wondering if my PND was in fact PTSD... I know I suffered from this at uni after a bad car accident brought back memories of childhood abuse (relatively minor, she hastily adds) etc...symptoms quite similar... hmm. Does this mean (if it wasn't PND) that I'm less likely to get it next time (she hopefully asks)? Sorry, this if off topic...

toothache - I have recently returned from london doing doula training course with Michel Odent. I am continuing my training within the Scottish doula network and also beccoming a member of AIMS (assoc for improving naternity services)

I will soon be on doula uk website and have a booking for November, but at the moment I am free until then and am not charging anything - only expenses(petrol) - until I have supported 5 women. I would be happy to be your doula for free (am in Edinburgh)

There are common themes here and I don't think appeals to remember that there are good docs/midwives out there should be allowed to obscure the fact that many women are getting a raw ? and dangerous ? deal. Yes, women can have positive experiences of labour in busy hospitals but when things go wrong they often go badly wrong. And the NHS ? and private healthcare ? largely gets away with it. Imagine if, say, ten per cent of men undergoing major surgery were denied pain relief when they asked for it! There would be an outcry. Yet hospitals do not generally roster their anaesthetists so that women in labour can have epidurals swiftly when required. Almost every other woman who has asked for an epidural describes having to wait, often for more than an hour, for the anaesthetist. And instead of examining the problem and seeking solutions hospitals and the medical profession just rely on women putting up with it. (No personal axe to grind here, just an example.)
That encourages a culture that can be contemptuous of women in labour. The healthcare professions, managers and policy makers get away with a system that not always, but too often, treats women very badly. The fact that some women have positive experiences too shouldn't mean negative experiences are ignored.
I did complain about one aspect of my delivery, and got a satisfactory answer but I didn't tackle the big issue: appalling and dangerous levels of staffing that meant there was one midwife to seven women on the labour ward (this on a midwife-led unit [!] but the same staffing problems over on the hospital unit meant I couldn't be transferred). Not quite sure why I let them get away with that one. But I understand from the community midwives that the trust (St Thomas's in London) has a reputation for being 'lucky' and getting away with dangerous staffing levels without ? so far ? any major scandals. Instead of addressing the problem, it is swept under the carpet. It contributes to a situation where midwife shortages are not being tackled at national level because it doesn't feature on the politicians' or civil servants' radar as a high-profile issue ? women are just expected to put up with it.

Most of these stories fill me with horror/dread and make me realise how lucky i was so here's my positive one+

Rang hospital at 5pm,(on day before due date) and said was bleeding and cramping and they said wait it out- ring if it's worse. Half an hour later i was doubled over in pain and dp rang them, they heard me in the background and said bring her in.
I was 7 cm's dilated when i went in and they gave me a scan straight away as they thought the baby might be breech(wasn't!). They read my birthplan and when i asked for pethidine Janine,(angel midwife) held it in my face saying,"you don't REALLY want it do you" . I didn't as i was so far on. Janine finished her shift at 8 but stayed till 8.58pm when my dd was born.
(Also had meconium and panic-lots of people-forceps which i think was the most painful bit and after trying them i pushed her out myself!!)The Doctor actually delivered her because of the meconium and she stayed and sewed me in record time. The midwives were great with dp too.

So, there is hope and some lovely midwives out there and i hope this re-assures you Springchicken and everyone else who is expecting

eddm posts crossed!

Hope nobody thinks i was trying to obscure the fact that some women get a raw deal. I was just putting the other side as i saw Springchicken needed a bit of encouragment and any axcuse to tell my story!!!!

I did read somewhere here that if you're far on when you go the midwives are nicer so i wonder if that was a factor for me. I just PRAY it's as positive next time

I guess this is quite sad, but one of the reasons I'm having a truly elective, 'too posh to push' CS is that I want to be in control.

I've found every stage of pregnancy terrifying and I can't get to the OB without a sleepless night and tears. The thought of being in labour, scared and vulnerable, only to be abused by medical staff leaves me cold.

I've planned my section down to the minutest detail - the OB is happy, she knows I'm looking for an early dishcharge, and I'm happy.

The thought of going through what a lot of women (these days) go through as well as having tearing, stitching etc. NO THANKS.

I'm glad this thread moved back onto a healthy and fascintated debate.

Midden - WOWOWOWOWWWWOWOW!!! I would LOVE for you to be my Doula! Thanks so much for the offer.

I haven't read all the posts properly yet, but I will throughout the day. Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences with me. It does seem that although there are good experiences there are also far too many bad ones where women have been left feeling inadequate, out of control and ignored during childbirth. I think this is a serious issue and one well worth being looked into. AIMS sounds like a wonderful organisation Midden.... I'm off to search for their website.

I'll email you through contact another talker if you like? I am in Falkirk.