Why are Mothers-to-be treated like idiots in the Labour Ward???

[Toothache]

This question has been bugging me for a while. I was already in hospital when I my waters broke with DS. I had been in for a few days with high BP and was 39wks when they broke. It was 3am and waddled to the MW station and told them my waters had gone. They said "No they haven't, just go back to bed"!!!! I INSISTED that my waters HAD broke and they made me hand over my sanitory towel so they could check it. NICE! My waters had broken.
A few hours later the backache kicked in, then contractions. I told them I was in labour and they said "No you're not, it could take hours to get into established labour, go eat your breakfast." As I panted my way through another big contraction then waddled back to bed. Half an hour later I tried to phone DH, midwives STILL insisting that I wasn't in labour. I got a huge contraction and nearly fell in the corridor. A Consultant had some firm words with the Midwives and I was given an internal. I was 4-5 cm dilated and whisked off to the labour ward!!

WHY DIDN'T THEY LISTEN TO ME??????????

Another example:
I got a phonecall from a friend yesterday. Her friend was due her 2nd baby 2 wks from now. She went into labour at home and her boyfriend took her to hopsital. They examined her, told her she wasn't in labour, but that she had a UTI and would kept in for the night. She said "Are you sure, I've had a baby before and this feels like labour". They insisted she wasn't in labour and sent her boyfriend away to fetch her some things. They ran her bath to help with the pain of her "UTI" and 30mins later her baby's head was delivered as she was wrenched from thebath in agony! Healthy 8lb girl. Boyfriend missed everything. .

WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY don't they listen mothers??????

grumble for the day.... anybody else any experience of this?

I think that bad experiences do stick with a person longer than good ones do, especialy when the people having the bad experiences are in pain, or stressed or worried or hormonal! and labour is that in spades!

Thought I'd stick my oar here to support hmb. I don't believe hmb is saying you can't discuss these things, and we've all had good and bad experiences of people within the medical professional, just try and remember in the midst of all these horrible experiences there are also good experiences.

Also there are probably a number of first timers reading these posts thinking oh my god, don't want this baby to come out now if its going to be like this. How about offering positive recommendations, like if you feel you are active labour make sure they don't send you home etc - something I will remember for this labour!!

Its easy to remember the negative and so easy to forget the positive. I do it all the time.

I don?t think anyone here was saying all midwives/ doctors/ other med profs are the same. We could all ? I hope - name times when we've met midwives/ consultants etc. who were absolutely wonderful, who looked after us, nurtured us even is not too strong a word for the treatment I received with my second child - but there are simply too many stories (not just on Mumsnet) of mothers (and other patients) being treated badly. And that?s what this thread?s about, so inevitably it will come across as negative. Maybe someone should start another one ? times I?ve enjoyed being in hospital. When I had my second child, I really enjoyed myself in hospital. Had a lovely break, got waited on hand and foot, lots of compliments about my DD from people who came across as having so much love and commitment for what they did, and great food! (No really!! ? I really enjoyed it!).

Hope that?s cheered up anyone whose expecting for the first time and thought it?s all negative!

Glad I'm not the only one to admit to enjoying the food in hospital! I thought that it ment that I was a seriously crap cook

And in the intersts of ballence, I had a crap GP when I had my M/C. All the other medics that I saw at that time were wonderful tho.

sorry, pollingfold, but i don't want to put a gloss on my experiences for anyone else's benefit. i already have to do that far too much IRL. on a thread like this which has specifically invited comments on negative experiences, i feel under no obligation whatsoever to put a positive spin on things to help first time mums, or to mention other positive experiences i have had. as meanbean says, other threads exist or can be set up to capture those experiences.

My advice - to anyone pregnant - is simply this. If you aren't getting the service you want then scream the place down. Make a massive fuss. Demand to see the head of midwifery. If they won't get her/him then get your partner to call the hospital switchboard and demand to speak to the duty manager/complaints department. So what if you are a first timer? You know your body better than anyone - if you think your baby is coming demand an internal. Do not be bullied into having the sort of experience that so many people have recounted here. I had a vile experience - but the turning point was when I completely lost it and demanded to see the head of midwifery. Then people started to treat me with care and respect. So put your foot down and demand good service - and don't be afraid to really lose your temper if needs be!

And if it all starts going pear shaped contact me via contact another talker and I'll go mental for you!

I give up.

Sorry I started this thread now. It bothered me and I wanted to talk about it. Hell mend me.

Sorry if I have upset you, toothache. As I have kept posting over and over again, I'm 100% happy for people to be posting about their bad experiences with specific docs etc. I've never suggested that anyone shouldn't. I just didn't want this thread, which is valid and helpful, to turn into a thread that paints all medics as bad. And that is all. And that is all I have ever posted.

ok everyone stop being so hypersensitive >slinks off before backlash

Toothache (hugs) sorry you are feeling so low - I know you are going through an anxious time lately. I think that Willow2's advice is very good - don't worry about being assertive and kicking up a fuss, and also make it clear to the labour ward staff what happened last time, and that you will be keen to ask for internals etc due to them not realising you were in established labour in your last labour. Also take a policy decision - your role is to have the best labour for you, not to win the most popular patient contest - it is better to turn up at hospital too early and get sent back home/be scowled at, than to wait too late!

Your next labour should be a lot better if you can just come in when it's time, as you should have your dh/support partner with you for moral support and to stand up for you. Have you decided what to do about pain relief - are you going to ask for an epidural as soon as they admit you?

hmb - I just don't think that it was necessary to point that out. But then that's just my opinion. TBH I'm a bit disheartened with MN at the moment. I go through phases ranging from: thinking it's the bees knees to wondering why I bother.

I wondered why there was a bit of a weird atmosphere on the post-natal ward when I had delivered dd2, and it was because a mw had been assaulted by a father on the ward and had been signed off sick with both physical injuries and mental scars (I think she was kicked once she hit the floor).

I had a pretty good experience with both my births and sighed a bit when I saw the title of this thread - which doesn't seem to be (I could be wrong) seeking positive experiences - by asking why we're treated like idiots - I wasn't.
Maybe I was lucky.

this was really helpful to me after very traumatic birth with my ds1. i hope it helps xx

Yes bundle, a HUGE sigh from me now too. No I was wondering why people that I know (almost EVERYONE I've spoken to that's had a child) get treated like idiots. I wasn't looking for positive experiences I was looking to vent some frustration.

I'm even more frustrated now.

i think it is absolutely awful that nhs staff are assaulted in the course of their jobs. can't help wondering how on earth it is relevant to this discussion though - because they get assaulted it's ok for some of us to have had bad treatment? that is a complete non-sequitur, so why mention it?

Good point SQ. It is awful that NHS staff are assaulted.... or ANYONE for that matter. But it doesn't change the fact that IN GENERAL and IME women in labour get treated as though they have no idea what's going on.

I don't know many people who've had such negative experiences but I wonder why it is so common? How do mw's feel about their job? do they get frustrated by how they're treated? is it an education thing? where's mears when you need her? (I think she's away)

sq, I mentioned it because I was wondering about how mw's felt when they were doing their job. I'm not saying that excuses anyone ignoring a mum-to-be's wishes or thinking they know better, just trying to think around the subject and work out what could be going on that this problem appears to be so common. that's all.

I had a good experience, with my main mw, but the first one I saw on the labour ward was v. patronising.

My waters broke at home and follwoing instructions given at antenatal classes I phoned the hospital, I was also getting what I thought was regular contractions so I was told to go in.

Once there I was told off because I'd said that my contractions were 5 minutes apart, while on the monitor it was more like 6!!!

Well I didn't have amonitor at home did I??

I was so glad when the shift chnaged, the other m/w was absolutely wonderful and I'll never forget her or those that visited me at home.

To be honest though, I musta dmit, that I know quite a few people who've had abd experiences, or been told, no you're not in labour, only to eliver the baby half hour later!

hmb, I think it is perfectly fair to talk about a general culture of women being patronised and ignored particularly around issues of childbirth. I think women's experiences of childbirth are often squashed and neglected - women are supposed to be grateful, when often they have not been treated well. There are a lot of threads on Mumsnet with stories that can make you cry. Women having flashbacks and serious depression as a result of their treatment. I do not think it is out of order to consider whether there is a pattern here or a mindset that seems to make this a common occurrence. In actualy fact Toothache posted two very specific examples of medical staff simply refusing to listen to women. But I think it is fair to look at these specific cases and think about the more general question of medical attitudes to women during pregnancy and childbirth. A LOT of women find themselves treated as idiots at this time. Why?
And SQ is spot on about the non-sequiteur. Of course medical staff shouldn't be assaulted, but what has that got to do with how women are treated during childbirth? And in any case, I very much doubt that staff are being assaulted by women in labour!

I do think that childbirth is a quite specific area where women are listened to even less than other parts of the health system.

I should add that the midwives who delivered my second baby, at home, were so fantastic I still can't believe how fantastic they were.

I raised the points about assaults to point out that some patients are violent, but it would be wrong to treat all patients as potentialy violent. Similarly there are very bad medics but not all other them are bad and it is equaly wrong to treat them all as if they are. Each person deserves to be judged on their behaviour, not the behaviour of others in their profession/class/religion/position/race/whatever.

And that is all that I have asked. And yet again let me say that everyone on this thread has had a dreadful time, and the medics involved should be ashamed, and everyone has a right to be posting their specific experineces about specific medics.

If I have a crappy time with an estate agent, for example, I have the right to post, but I can't paint them all as bad, that would be wrong.

I have to say that none of this sounds like my experiences any of my three labours.

I've always felt the midwives and doctors went out of their way to be reasonable, even when I clearly wasn't being (eg. demanding an epidural as the baby's head crowned (baby no. 2); refusing to move from the bathroom where there would have been no room for the midwives to catch the baby (babe no. 3).

Even with my first where I had ended up having a very managed birth I felt the staff were trying to balance my choices with medical necessity in a very calm way, and explaining everything to me as it happened.

With baby 3 I turned up at labour ward 10 days ahead of my due date with very regular painful contractions, and wasn't made to feel stupid when it became clear I wasn't anywhere near going into labour. They even gave me the option of staying in overnight (just as well I didn't, she wasn't born for another 2 weeks!)

When my waters finally went they did believe my account of events although the swab was negative and I wasn't leaking fluid any more, and went out of their way to explain that the amniotic sac can seal up again. They let me go as long as possible (nearly 3 days) before an induction, and to have as natural a birth as possible under the circs.

The hospital in question was University College Hospital in London, in case anyone's interested. I don't think my experience was that unusual -- I've never heard anyone say a bad word about it, although they suffer from the usual inner-London staffing problems.

This might be a bit of a non-sequiteur, also, but.. I've found that doctors/nurses/etc are more likely to treat me as an idiot if I'm (or my son) is not a regular patient of theirs. Ie, I get treated like a generic dolt.

I've had two births, but both were ob led. A couple of surgeries, but with someone I knew well. My son, however, has had the opportunity to spend a bit of time in unknown hospitals as an emergency case and that's where I get treated like a nut (I've been called both over-anxious and ridiculously cavalier).

I think it's extremely difficult to stand up for yourself the first time you're in hospital and for many women their first labour is that first time. Add to that fact: they're in an unknown place, labour itself is overwhelmingly emotional and yes, painful. It does seem like this is something not emphasized in midwifery training.

Anyway, sorry for that off-topic post. Both my son's births were without problems and I felt listened to and I did decide what was happening to me. But to answer the question, I think it's because I knew my doctor that I didn't get treated like an idiot.