Homebirth, am I crazy?

[rubberducky87]

Just that really. I'm a first time mum and I really want a homebirth but scared because I've never done it before. Only a few more days until I'm due! My midwife is very supportive but I'm still nervous. Any stories to share??

And clearly I didn't notice the date of the OP either as you will have obviously delivered by now

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an epidural fan. I just wondered how Penguin weighed one up against the other.

For me it's another argument against first time mums having home births. You have no idea how it will feel until you feel it and no idea how you'll handle it- whatever your intentions.

It's not an either/or though Flowergirl - you can decide on a home birth and as you can see from this thread, if you are advised against it, or decide you need more pain relief, you transfer.

Some of the women being pushed from pillar to post would be a damn sight better off if they could just be left to get on with it at home - I can't possibly see how a birth at the side of the road is considered a good option.

Of course it's not. I will say again though that the casual "you just transfer" I find slightly bemusing.

That surely can't be ideal for either the woman or the receiving hospital suddenly faced with a potentially difficult situation. It can't help the already squeezed maternity services can it?

Why the bemusement, didn't you transfer though? You weren't already in hospital before your labour started? In your case, it's a good job they didn't send you home, but I think we have already said that, so are just going round in circles.

Penguins I am not sure you are quite understanding what I said.

Holding somebody morally responsible is making a judgement of praise or blame about their moral decisions. Saying this choice was reckless or stupid (=unsupported by facts) is holding someone morally responsible for their choice. I brought free birth into this as it stands at one end of the scale of risk with respect to birth choices.

None of this has any implications for restriction of liberty. Holding someone morally responsible doesn't necessarily mean I want to hold them legally responsible or place restrictions on their liberty. I do think that those who engage in adulterous affairs are morally wrong because of the betrayal of trust and hurt they cause but this has no implications for legal responsibility; I neither want to forcibly prevent them from being adulterous not punish them for it.

A woman can make a reckless, foolhardy, risky decision with respect to birth choices and be morally wrong to take this risk with the life of another human being. The reason these threads always go so wrong is that others who have made the same decision resent the inevitable implication that they have made a similarly reckless, foolhardy and risky decision with respect to the person they love more than anyone else in the world.

Risk decisions are deeply subjective and require a personal interpretation of a variety of elements. How do you assign values and weigh up the relative risks and benefits of having emergency help in rare prolapse cases vs having a birth environment that makes you feel calm, relaxed and in control - and even if you could quantify everything involved you'd find the assessment varies from person to person. Nonetheless there is room for judging some decisions for being unreasonable.

No LaV I didn't transfer. I've written my story lots of times now- won't bore everyone by telling it again!

The problem I have with flower is that she claims that hospital is THE safest way to deliver. I have already explained twice why that isn't the case for me. Everybody can choose the birth they want to, as everyone is different and will have different reasons for choosing either home or hospital. I know plenty of women who went with a planned hospital birth and I don't roll my eyes at them or anything like that. I also know plenty of women who went with a planned home birth, in which case my reaction is the same.
Both are equally safe! The risks are different for both, but they are BOTH safe! For me, a home birth is 'safer', as my autism will result in major issues if I was to go to a hospital. And the problems would significantly affect my baby!

You can ask two questions: what is safest overall and what is safest for me? You may get two different answers. The numbers do suggest that hospital births are safer for first time mothers, not by much but they are. You can accept this and still reasonably argue that given individual circumstances, a home birth is safer for a particular individual.

As I recall, the numbers showed that an MLU was slightly safer for the baby for a first time mother, but I didn't think it showed any additional safety for the mother.

Flower my point was that my decision wasn't significant because if I'd planned a hospital birth I still wouldn't have been there when my waters broke as they did so unexpectedly without any contractions. I would have done exactly the same thing, which was to go straight to hospital as I had PROM. My plan for the birth didn't come into it. I wouldn't have been in hospital at the point my waters broke, regardless of how I intended to deliver. Once they did, I acted according to the risk. There was no selfishness, I followed medical advice throughout the whole process and that includes being advised to plan a home birth originally.

The rate of transfer for a first time mother is fairly high. Transfer is not the stress free experience it is being described as on here. I have known of several people who have been in that situation and found it awful.

My stance is fairly straight forward. If you choose a home birth (for whatever reason) and something significant happens then you potentially may regret that decision.

I take the point re autism and the additional stress of hospital but I wonder what the effect of a need to transfer would have on you? I wonder whether with a quiet, private room and awareness and support from hospital staff your circumstances could be managed.
Several people on here have spoken about the likelihood of a quick birth and the issue of their significant distance to hospital. Again, I would ask what if it goes wrong. How would you get to the hospital quick enough to help a baby in distress if you are an hour away? Don't get me wrong here, I appreciate the difficulties. However, I still can't reconcile those with the potential risks.

Cord prolapse and other dire emergencies are rare. You are likely to be fine with a home birth (indeed many on here were fine) but what if you're not? What if?

Flower, what if you're in a car accident as you are driving to the hospital for your birth and that has a disastrous outcome? It's rare, but what if it happens? What if?

Statistically your baby is safer being delivered in a hospital, due to immediate availability in a hospital of oxygen for a fragile baby and blood bank in the case of a maternal hemorrhage.

Source - "Home Birth & the Future Child" published Jan 2014 in the British Medical Journal by Lachlan de Crespigny & Julian Savulescu.

If you choose a home birth (for whatever reason) and something significant happens then you potentially may regret that decision.

So you are really saying, that if something goes wrong in hospital, possibly caused by the hospital, it's just one of those things, and that you would have no regrets.

I think you will find people on this thread who would beg to differ.

As has been pointed out before on this thread the discussion focuses on risks that can be controlled. Whether one is involved in an accident or not is not a risk that can be (beyond reasonable taking reasonable precautions) be controlled.

Also if you are forced into a type of birth by circumstances , e g baby arrives so quickly you must have a home birth, then again this falls outside this discussion as there was no choice involved. My neighbour had two freebirths as both times the baby was born before anyone could get to her, but neither was her choice so she would not be held morally responsible for either birth outcome.

Regret is a completely different matter from moral responsibility. Suppose you are driving a well serviced car, below the speed limit, you are alert and attentive to the road and react with all the speed possible to human beings but nonetheless you hit and kill a child that runs into the middle of the road. While you are not morally culpable and have done nothing wrong for which to be held responsible, most people would still feel regret at what had happened. Feeling regret related to how horrible the outcome was and one's causal role in bringing it about, it is not necessarily related to moral responsibility.

i had home birth when i had my 4 year old. was accident though. had no midwife till after baby had been born... was ace though.

this time i have a planned home birth. hoping it will all go well.

i have not had any positive responce from friends/family. but hey ho

"Cord prolapse and other dire emergencies are rare. You are likely to be fine with a home birth (indeed many on here were fine) but what if you're not? What if?"

So Flowerygirl, would you recommend that all women are admitted to hospital at 37 weeks and hooked up to monitors until birth?

I presume not. So although recognising the 'what if', even you recognise that it isn't the only thing we consider. That it is legitimate to weigh other things in the balance.

You've said yourself that you don't see any benefits in home birth, so I can see that you'd see the scales heavily weighted on one side. Going to hospital is all upside in your view. That's understandable given what you went through.

Other people see the scales as more evenly balanced - with risks on one side and benefits on the other. There are a lot of benefits/ mitigated risks to homebirth which it is legitimate to include. Most of them far less serious than your 'what if' I agree, but also far more likely. And likelihood and seriousness are the two key factors in analysing a risk. How you balance the two is very personal.

reflecting on my childrens births. for me im thinking when i had hospital births i was left alone a hell of a lot. and i think the midwife can have a few labouring mums to look after at one time? so is mum getting the attention/help she needs. can things be missed because of the work load that the midwife has.

At home its one to one. and is that right you also have 2 midwifes? not sure. i only had one i think because i gave birth before she arrived. not sure on that one though? and would she more likely pick up on any problems quite early because its one to one and your not left on your own for quite long periods.

i just think its good that we all have choices

But flower what if something went wrong while trying to get to hospital an hour away and delivering on the motorway? I would rather have something go wrong at home with two midwives able to do their best with what they had than be on the motorway with hubby delivering and the baby needing resuscitation or something.

For the record my MWs had oxygen at home so not sure why too much coffee seems to think hospital is the only place to get that.

that article, home births and the future child, doesnt seem exactly scientifically rigorous!

Lots of misconceptions on here, of course they bring oxygen to home births!

I've had two homebirths and would recommend it to anyone. Second time round baby stopped breathing after birth and had to be given oxygen by the midwives (yes, they have exact same kit as in the hospital). Baby was fine but about an hour later we transferred to hospital to check his lungs were cleared properly as he was a grunter. He was fine but the hospital's overmedicalised approach to everything traumatised me and i was sooo glad i had birthed at home.
IMO the statistics show that home or hospital have basically the exact same level of risk, assuming you have no previously identified medical conditions which require hospital birth. It's sad that people get so hung up on trying to prove that one is 'better' or more 'right' than the other. It's just a question of where you personally feel most confident, give your unique character and body. A woman's right to choose isn't just about abortion.
Incidentally, re:up thread discussion on cord prolapse - i had assumed that if this happened at a homebirth it was basically game over but my midwife told me that her own midwife supervisor had a cord prolapse giving birth herself at home and it was successfully dealt with. It's obviously everyone's nightmare scenario but hospital doesn't guarantee happy outcome and home doesn't mean certain doom.

A hospital would not be the best option for me. If I have to transfer, that will be because that is the safest option then. I'm okay with that. But right now, the safest option for me and the baby is not the hospital. I don't know if you have ever experienced a full blown meltdown from an autistic person, but it is not a good thing. I know going into a hospital will set that off, so I won't do that unless I need to.