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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Denied a homebirth when in labour?

205 replies

PrettyCandles · 18/10/2006 15:06

Has this happened to anybody else?

When I phoned up to say that I was in labour and was booked for a homebirth, they could not find a midwife to come to me and I had to go to the hospital. I know that in theory that can happen, but have never heard of it happening before. Even the midwife who booked me for homebirth a couple of weeks ealier said that it had never happened as far as she was aware.

OP posts:
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lulumama · 18/10/2006 21:36

thank you vanilla - and pupuce...it does indeed stir very strong emotions...

we all want the same thing- safe places to birth,without having to fight for it....whether that is home or hospital....

i bet prettycandles never imagined this when she started this thread!

Gizmo · 18/10/2006 21:48

MumtoBen - I hope you have success with your homebirth this time. It may be selfish, but having the monopoly over a midwife (even two) for the whole birth process was a key reason for me deciding to have a homebirth with my DS2. In fact, given the research that suggests one to one midwife care is a key factor in successful outcomes for both mother and baby, you could actually build an argument that you are likely to save the NHS money in the long run, since you are better placed to avoid (expensive) complications down the line.

I had a brief run in with my local health authority in the last weeks of pregnancy. My midwife hinted that because of very high numbers of expected deliveries in the local maternity unit, there might be a squeeze on community midwives to do homebirths. To start with I thought I would just wait until the last stages of labour before I rang the ward and then gaily inform them it was far too late to come in if they tried to pressure me, but actually I got annoyed by 38 weeks and wrote to the local director of midwifery services to point out that they had had six months to arrange midwife cover for the homebirths in their area. If mothers like us don't actively persue homebirths, then the resources for them are likely to be cut back even further, which would be a real shame, as not only are the outcomes generally good, but they take up very little of NHS resources in terms of ward space etc.

So retrospectively I feel quite militant about my homebirth. Unnecessarily, of course, because when it came to it, my birth was attended without a hitch and as it turned out, was well worth a little stress. But it's very when folk like PC don't even have the opportunity to fight their corner and are just hijacked when in labour.

kittythescarygoblin · 18/10/2006 21:54

Sliderule, you have put forward very valid and well thought out points and I agree totally with you.

Vanillamilkshake, i really hope you have a birth experience this time that is truly wonderful and empowering for you, best of luck with it all

There is an issue that will alawys annot me and that is when people argue that having a healthy baby at the end of the day is all that matters. Of course it is THE most important thing, but how a woman feels about her labour, birth and how she was treated throughout is so incredibly important. It has reprecussions for her, her baby, her family and any future pregnancies and births. the one thing that is guaranteed to make me angry is when the importance of this is played down.

I have my lovely doula booked in again for the next birth and I feel so completely supported by her that I don't have to worry about the midwives too much.
I wish every pregnant woman could have access to a doula, now THAT would save the government a HUGE amount of money in the longer term.

pupuce · 18/10/2006 21:57

I had the opportunity to spean 1 month to shadow a MW in a labour ward... the stuff I witnessed was unbelievable... of ocurse I saw some great stuff but if you think MWs are automaticlly thinking of your best interest you'd have a shock. These are things I have observed on occasion in our labour ward:
MWs can be rude (even make fun of you) behind your back
MWs will organise their load based on what suits them
MWs decide what your outcome will be!!!!
MWs go on long smoking break and have to be fetched back to care for their mums!
MWs who perform episiotomies, ARM or syntometrine without consent... usually because mums don't know their rights !
MWs who use selective info when recomending a particular course!
Rude MWs
and I could go on!

Of course I also know MWs who are incredibly hard working, dedicated, looking after your best interest, suggesting pro-active solutions to your particular situation.... but I am not sure which group is bigger... the one above or this one... and I really fel sad for the last group as they get a bad rap !

lulumama · 18/10/2006 21:58

gizmo - great point about the one to one continuiity of care..which ties in nicely about kittys mention of doulas

there is a myriad of research showing that one to one continous support for a woman in labour can reduce the need for c/s, forceps. ventouse etc...but an enormous percentage...which saves the NHS money

i believe a c/s costs the NHS 4 times as much as a vaginal delivery..

if women gave birth in a safe , secure environment, with the support they need and deserve..it would ultimately save money

pupuce · 18/10/2006 22:00

Kitty : Of course it is THE most important thing, but how a woman feels about her labour, birth and how she was treated throughout is so incredibly important. It has reprecussions for her, her baby, her family and any future pregnancies and births. the one thing that is guaranteed to make me angry is when the importance of this is played down"

YOU ARE SPOT ON... sadly too many women (including some mumsnetters) feel that as long as the baby is fine it doesn't really matter how you birth... sadly I see very very traumatised mums with healthy (physically) babies

kittythescarygoblin · 18/10/2006 22:03

pupuce, I read that with trepedation. Normally when I am quoted it's in order to be ripped to pieces

jellybrainsalloverthewall · 18/10/2006 22:11

aka sliderule - thank you Kitty

I am not unfortunately surprised by pupuce's experience of a
abour ward as I felt that atmosphere when I was having my ds (despite having plently to distract me!). At each shift change during my loong labour I wondered whether I would have a nice mw this time? The after care was worse though - they wouldn't let me leave (I needed anti-d) and it was a horrible overcrowded overheated ward - the mws didn't have time to care - horrible.

I would advise any woman with a low risk pg to opt for hb and transfer if you need to...

PrettyCandles · 18/10/2006 22:38

Crumbs - I certainly didn't expect this thread to kick off so much!

First of all, I want to say that I had a good birth. The worst of it was the distress of having to deal with the sudden change in plan, but apart from that everything went amazingly well and the end result was happy healthy baby and happy healthy mum. I can't complain about that and won't.

It never occurred to me to make a fuss when I was told that there were no midwives available. I was deep into intense labour, didn't want to have to concentrate on anything else. Tried to discuss with the person on the phone whether the situationw ould change, midwives come free etc, in the next hours, but wasn't really capable of it. She told me (and I have no reason to doubt her) that she had been phoning around to try and find me a midwife. I didn't care who came, I'm not fussed about having got to know the midwife veforehand, but if there's no-one available then even not being fussy isn't going to help.

And, for your information, it would not have been an agency midwife who would have come, but an NHS one who was not even on duty. There are only 3 community midwives covering homebirths in this area, so most home births are actually attended by offduty volunteers. I don't know whether they are paid for volunteering, but that's hardly the point - they aren't agency midwives.

As to whether I have the 'right' to a home birth - well, I suppose I do, as much as I have the right to any treatment on the NHS. But, equally, as a woman who has also given birth in hospital were midwives had to rush between women, and as one who believes that we look after each other (after all, think how the NHS is funded), I don't feel it would be right to take two midwives away when they may be needed for more than one woman's care. The stories I've read here on MN about mums labouring in totally unsuitable places, or without enough personal attention and therefore reliant on monitors, just don't compare with the care I have been lucky enough to receive in hospital, even with having to share midwives, and I wouldn't deliberately inflict that on another woman. Even if it's not 'my fault' but caused by the underfunding of the hospital.

I think that the hospital tried to make it up to me for losing my HB. Although they have a birthing pool suite, it is, according to other mums I know in our town, very difficult to get access to the pool. Every one who has used the pool believes that they got it because they had someone fighting for their right to do so. In one case the mum was accompanied to hospital by her community midwife, in another her health visitor was on the ward for some reason. So the fact that I arrived there and the pool was already filled and waiting for me does suggest something.

I don't see what benefit there would be to my making a complaint. The facilities weren't available for what I wanted, but the hospital did their best with the facilities that they had.

OP posts:
lulumama · 18/10/2006 22:44

i wouldn't say it kicked off....i think we had a healthy and thought provoking debate...i certainly learnt a lot

you have such a generous and open attitude...you sound absolutely lovely and this LO is lucky to have such a wonderful mummy....congratulations on your new arrival.....

PrettyCandles · 18/10/2006 22:50

It kicked off in the old-fashioned MN way - strong opinions but no offensiveness.

OP posts:
jellybrainsalloverthewall · 18/10/2006 22:51

thank prettycandles - i don't think this has 'kicked off' though you were just asking about peoples experiences and birth is a very emotive subject.

I am really glad you are happy with the way your birth went - that is the point I think the maj of posters were making - that the birth exp is very important not just the outcome. The problem is when peopple have a bad experience - of course there is no need for you to complain if you don't feel there is a problem.

Judy1234 · 18/10/2006 23:05

My twins was the silliest of all. I have my two private midwives with me at home for the booked hospital birth (twins),. Even so the wasteful hospital sends over an ambulance and two midwives to sit in my kitchen for over 4 hours when we didn't even want them there. Their stupid choice nad not even legally necessary as my midwives were there. I wouldn't worry about an extra cost to the NHS. It's neither here nor there and serves other women better because it emphasises your rights and the fact you have them and more importantly are prepared to exercise them.

motherinferior · 18/10/2006 23:07

It nearly happened to me. The woman at the end of the phone said there wasn't anyone around from my community team. I ranted, and she backed down, and I was told later (after my home birth) that she'd had no right to do so.

3andnomore · 19/10/2006 12:29

ktsg
"There is an issue that will alawys annot me and that is when people argue that having a healthy baby at the end of the day is all that matters. Of course it is THE most important thing, but how a woman feels about her labour, birth and how she was treated throughout is so incredibly important. It has reprecussions for her, her baby, her family and any future pregnancies and births. the one thing that is guaranteed to make me angry is when the importance of this is played down."
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo true
I know after having ys I could have killed people saying that sort of nonsense....I mean, I was feeling guilty enough about everything, I didn't need anyone to try and make me feel even more guilty for my emotions!

Spidermama · 19/10/2006 12:37

PrettyCanldes I'm really sorry you were denied your home birth and I think it's very shoddy treatment.

I'm so shocked at the attitude on this thread that women should just shut up and be happy their baby is alive. How ridiculous. We're not pieces of meat who need to have our young extracted from us and be grateful. W're birth givers with the best interests of ourselves and our babies at heart.

Good God I'm utterly staggered at the attitude of ingym23 and others on this thread. MN never fails to amaze me.

kittythescarygoblin · 19/10/2006 13:12

Sidermama, on the other side of the coin there are others here, myself included who realise how important the whole process is, all the way through pregnancy, during labour, during birth and during the postpartum period. We have to hope that we are in a majority.

lulumama · 19/10/2006 13:16

3and & kitty

i think i posted earlier on this thread about my PND being triggered by a crap birth experience...and i too was made to feel ungrateful and guilty because my baby was healthy...too bad those people didn't care that i wasn't......i'm glad i am not alone in this!

lulumama · 19/10/2006 13:17

Spidermama- i was initially shocked at some of the comments ..but this thread in its majority,,,supports the fact women should have the choice...

3andnomore · 19/10/2006 14:03

lulumama...no you are definately not on your own....what shocked me the most was just how unexpected it all was, the way I felt....I just didn't see that one coming at all...after 2 positive Birthexperiences and pretty much instant bonding....I suppose in that respect sometimes I can overlook people's comments, I mean, you just can't imagine it if you haven't been there...not saying that not plenty of women are happy enoguh with a positive outcome and can brush their own experience aside....I so wish I could have...would have saved me soooo much hearttache, sigh!
And, Spidermama, I agree with lulumama and ktsg...the majority of people is on the same side as you

lulumama · 19/10/2006 14:05

no-one on here made me feel crap!! in RL however..

.wish i had had mnet when had DS.....!

Toady · 19/10/2006 14:40

lulumama

Could you also email me about becoming a doula, have been thinking about this for a long while, would like to be a midwife eventually.

[email protected]

By the way agree 100% with everything you have said on this thread

BlueberryPancake · 19/10/2006 15:00

I personally think that there is too much focus on the assumption that a natural birth is a 'good' birth and a non-natural birth is a 'failure'. This is an important aspect of self-criticism that many women impose on themselves and set up such high expectation of labour/birth that they are very, very dissapointed if something doesn't go according to 'plan'. We sometimes forget how the intervention of a medical team is vital, for mums and babies, and shouldn't be perceived as a failiure.

I had a high intervention birth, and I was very grateful to the team of medics who ensured that my baby was healthy. I trust that my husband and I have made the right decisions during labour/birth, and I strongly believe that the medical team did everything they could to give me a natural birth but it just wasn't going to happen. I was not bullied into a C section, but it was made very clear to me, in intelligent terms and clearly explained, that the baby needed to come out quickly. Yes, I respect and thank the medical team for having delivered a healthy baby. Can anyone tell me what's wrong with that?

BlueberryPancake · 19/10/2006 15:28

I should have mentioned that this post is in reaction to Spidermama's comments. And yes, I was booked for a homebirth.

jellybrainsalloverthewall · 19/10/2006 15:48

It is interesting that spidermamas comments left blue... with the impression that she was saying only a natural labour is a good one - I think she was just saying that a woman's birth experience is also important - and my experience of a birth at hospital with lots of intervention unfortunately did not leave me feeling everything had been done in my best interests - merely that if i had opted for a hb a lot of it may have been avoided.

As it was at my home birth 6m ago - if your birth experience is traumatic then that is a very bad start for mum and baby - my mum still talks about her horrible breach birth experience with me 32yrs ago and how ignored and alone she felt if more attn was paid to making women feel informed and involved at hospital perhaps that exp can be avoided.