UK fight for Caesarean section

[Buttercup28]

Hey ladies

I'm just wondering if anyone could give me some advice and/or success stories of your fight for a caesarean in the UK please?

I have an underlying medical condition which my OB says is not as risky as a c section. However my gut instinct is taking over and I want to be super safe by having this section.

My husband and I have decided to push for a c section due to this underlying medical condition, we think it best all round and more so for the baby.

Well my anxiety about it has been through the roof. I am 25 weeks.

I had an appointment with the obstetrician to discuss this last week.

In a nutshell I was a total emotional wreck and could not stop crying.
Therefore I couldn't put my thoughts and concerns across as much as I should have been able to.

She suggested I was depressed (I am not!) I'm just extremely anxious about the birth due to medical reasons.

She wants me to have a vaginal birth and there was no telling her otherwise.

She said if I see someone about my "depression" then I will have a clearer head as will understand why they want me to have a vaginal birth!!!! I couldn't be more clear on anything else in my life!!

So I have emailed Birth Rights to ask them for help with regards to my next steps.

Since the OB appointment, I have requested to be seen by an OB who is more sympathetic to my medical condition and my overwhelming anxiety that has developed over this. I have emailed PALS at the hospital as I believe the OB did not follow the NICE guidelines.
A supervisor of midwives has scheduled in an appointment with me on Monday to discuss my requirements and concerns re caesarean.

I also had my general 25 week midwife appointment a few days ago. She read the notes and was horrified by what the OB had said. She is 110% behind me with my reasons and agrees a c section would be best.

So I had my appointment today with the birthing reflections midwife at the hospital today.

It was ok, just as I expected. She told me the c section risks and then I spoke about my concerns etc.

She understands my concerns and even said she would feel like how I feel.

However, she isn't confident I will get my section. She said they never do cs on maternal request and that my underlying medical condition wasn't enough risk to warrant the section!!!

If the underlying condition effected my baby, it could be fatal. I am not willing to take that risk.

On top of this, my anxiety is through the roof..really bad.

I have a meeting with he lead obstetrician next Tuesday but she doesn't think it will be granted.

I am so stressed, anxious and upset. I don't know where to turn.

I have 2 good reasons to request this c section and I don't feel anyone is taking me seriously.

Ladies that were granted their section due to anxiety, can I ask how your process was and which hospital it was at?

Thank you

P.s Applogies for any typos I'm on my phone!

I'm pretty sure the NICE guidelines say that if an obstetrician isn't prepared to green light an ELCS, they should refer the patient onto a colleague who will. It's that simple.

Good luck.

Out of interest, what medical condition? Feeding dd4 (13 months) and one handed typing so will type more soon. Had a section with her.

What are you fearful of though? Is your medical condition life threatening to you or your baby? Vaginal birth is much healthier.
Tbh, if you're that scared, it does sound like you may have underlying issues with anxiety and depression.

I am sure you must be worried, but surely the medically trained professionals know better than you? You are letting your fear rule the option they say is best for you. They know best, you have to trust them.

Cheeseandgherkins I carry the herpes virus. The risk is 4%. A risk I'm not prepared to take especially as since I've fallen pregnant my outbreaks have become worse.

Subsequently my anxiety (which I have always suffered with to some degree) has sky rocketed. The thought of a vaginal birth against my wishes doesn't bare thinking about. I'm worried this will lead to pre/post natal depression and possibly PTSD after the birth if made to have a vaginal birth.

x

Do you have type 1 or type 2? Are the out breaks on your genitals? I though with herpes, if you have active sores when you go into labour they will give you a c section? Or the baby anti virals.

What's the 4% statistic?

In a nutshell -

My GP recommended an elective section for DC2, partially due to the distance from hospital (Addenbrookes, Cambridge) vs speed of delivery of DC1, and partially due to the horrific time I'd had giving birth the first time round.

I got to about 20 weeks, attended a hospital outpatients appointment for a scan and had a bitch of a midwife telling me that I wouldn't get a CS and that she'd never heard of such ridiculous reasons for wanting one.

I was all for leaving to go straight to my GP and request a termination. My DH persuaded me to stay and speak to the consultant. The consultant was fine about me having a section and fully supportive.

I got to 4 weeks before my natural EDD and had another outpatients appointment. The junior doctor who saw me told me to go away and think about whether or not I really wanted an ECS and that he wasn't prepared to book me in. I had given him no reason to doubt that I wanted anything but a section, quite the opposite.

I hit the roof. I was panicking and petrified. I went home and contacted PALS who spoke on my behalf and arranged an urgent appointment with my consultant. He gave me an immediate apology and just as quickly gave me a date for the section.

The current NICE guidelines say that, effectively, you have to jump through hoops and be treated as if you don't know your own mind but if you're insistent enough having been through the hoops with an NHS mental healthcare person you "should" be offered an elective section.

My advice is not to take no for an answer.

I totally understand your feelings and I don't think you always have to trust a medical person purely because they are medical. I trusted my consultant and her opinion but she also respected me and mine. Also, the trust was built up over time.

I would request to see a different consultant and state your reasons why. I had 5 natural births before my section with my dd4 but I had an ELCS with her. It was medically required that she was born though. I couldn't go through with another induction.

Long story but I had gestational diabetes with my previous 3 babies and was insulin dependent during the last two pregnancies. It went undiagnosed with the pregnancy before that and that ended in stillbirth at 37 weeks. So, you can see why I don't trust and why stats don't mean much to me. I went with my instincts with her and they wouldn't listen to me, so now I pay a heavy price for that. I moved hospitals and had my next two elsewhere and they treated me with the respect and care that I needed.

My advice would be to listen to yourself and push as much as you have to for the ELCS if that's what you want. I knew the risks as it's a major operation but it was a risk to ME more so. I was willing to take that risk, some may think that selfish but that was my choice to make.

It was far more in depth and complicated than I've explained (happy to talk more if it would help you) but that's the gist of it. I was absolutely terrified of having the surgery, of feeling numb, how I'd cope afterwards etc but it all went ok and my consultant did the section herself. She was even going to get it done on the Saturday if the theatre was full on Friday as she wanted the baby out due to my GD. This was at 37 weeks. Dd3 was induced at 33+ due to my GD.

Sorry, rambling now! I wish you luck, don't give up x

How odd, just saw hooby you said Addenbrookes, that's who missed my GD and where our daughter died. We moved from there to Hinchingbrooke where the difference in care was astonishing. I went from going in through lack of movement and sitting there waiting for 3 hours (I kid you not) to Hinchingbrooke where they would see me straight away. They were all lovely and kind too, always paid care and attention. The consultant I had with Scarlett was crude and downright offensive at our meeting with her to discuss why she'd died. Sickens me to this day.

Sorry, I'd hate to be sliced open. I'd find that strange & tbh if i'd had cs, I think it would have effected bonding with my babies. Same if I had bottle fed rather than breastfed.

Your body is made for vaginal birth. CS takes weeks to recover from, whereas v birth you bounce back in days. IME anyway.

The probability is you will not transmit the virus to your baby..

I really feel for you and also agree with you that it sounds like a sensible decision. I had severe anxiety after losing my first child. I had to give birth to my stillborn daughter and at my next birth a year later with my son I found it incredibly difficult mentally. It was also a very lengthy induction and labour (days!) which very nearly ended in an EMCS and I had problems recovering from the birth. I therefore decided that my next (and last) birth would be an ELCS and my anxiety about getting this only subsided when it was finally agreed at around 24 weeks. I also couldn't stop crying at each appointment.

You are doing so many things right, I think you just need to keep pushing as hard as you can.

What helped me:

• writing a very clear document outlining my reasons and stating very firmly at the end that I would accept no other form of birth. I then gave people this to read while I was crying so I didn't have to explain over and over again. I gave copies of this to the consultants I met so they were in my records. Once it was written down so firmly I think it became very difficult to refuse me as I would refuse any interventions (after my experience with induction, ventouse etc.) if they tried to push me towards a natural birth which would very possibly mean it would end in a CS anyway.

• I got a letter of support from my GP. He also told me privately to be very firm with the hospital and ask to change consultants until I found one who agreed.

• I changed consultants, the second one agreed after reading the document I wrote.

• I was sent to see a psychiatric nurse about my anxiety and I was very clear and firm with her that I knew my anxiety was directly linked to not being allowed to refuse a vaginal birth.

Can you find out which consultants might be more sympathetic at your hospital? Can you change hospital?

Take a look at this book too which is very supportive of CS and also puts the risks in perspective (it also talks about the risks of vaginal birth which midwives and consultants rarely talk about in my experience...)

www.amazon.co.uk/Choosing-Cesarean-Natural-Birth-Plan/dp/1616145110/ref=sr_1_sc_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1417468104&sr=8-6-spell&keywords=natural+caesarian

If I think of anything else I will post again.

I too had to fight very hard. Ds1 was a c section but they didn't deem that to be a 'good enough' reason for ds2 to be a c section . I wanted my deployed husband at the birth and to make that happen I needed a date.. Obviously not a clinical reason but at the time I was teetering on the edge of ante natal depression. Having my husband there at the birth was so important to me.

I was patronised, told to find another hospital, told I couldn't just 'stamp my feet' until I got one, and one point asked to leave the appointment. I wasn't shouting, I was crying, but she just wanted me out. All by the lead midwife at the hospital. She damn near broke me.

Instead I spoke to my regular midwife, she told me the name of the consultant most agreeable to sections. I made an appointment to see him. Armed with every bit of medical I could gather on the risk of vbac vs risk of sections. I proved I understood the risks and it was agreed.

In your case I would do the same. Go armed with evidence of risk to your baby, from reputable source. Also stress that your mental health is being affected. Take someone with you who can help fight your corner. If they won't budge ask to be referred to another hospital.

Sorry you are going through this, your post reminded me just how bleak it felt when all this was going on. Good luck, I'm sure it will all get sorted out

It didn't affect my bonding at all, nor my ability to bf as I'm still bf her now at 13 months :) Oh and fyi, I bottle fed my first, didn't stop me bonding with her either and we still are very close and have an amazing relationship.

Good job you don't have to roll those dice then isn't it Wahi, the op does. It's her risk and she doesn't want to risk it. I fully understand that. I really don't think you have any idea what a lot of woman go through when they give birth. I was incredibly lucky that all mine were "easy", other than the breech, dead baby I had to deliver. That was the most painful thing I've ever done and I didn't bounce back in days either. I wouldn't dream of telling any other woman what she should do though just because of my experiences.

I hated being "sliced open", as you so kindly put it, but I'd do it a million times over to have my beautiful baby girl safely here.

Oh and birth with my stillborn daughter was seconds away from an EMCS as she was stuck. It was an incredibly traumatic birth.

That's a very unhelpful response Wahiki. Vaginal birth and breastfeeding may be important to you, but that doesn't give you the right to be unsupportive towards women who cannot or will not do either. And do bear in mind that, sometimes, being able to achieve those things is merely a question of luck.

And I didn't bounce back in days after a vaginal birth. I tore so badly I was in pain for months.

Like I said: luck.

Cheese, I'm so sorry for your loss.

I found Addenbrookes to be great once I'd put my foot down and insisted upon (and got) the CS but my experience with the hospital during the natural birth of DC1 was horrendous.

Wahikii, I know that every woman is different but there's no reason why a planned section should make recovery stretch over weeks. I was pretty much back to normal within a week and definitely back to my old self after 2.

I bonded better with ECS born DC2 than vaginally born DC1. The natural birth was hell on earth and I wanted to die, the section calm, controlled and pain free. (I bottle fed both DC, which didn't affect bonding with them at all, btw).

The problem with CS studies and risk assessments wrt women's right to choose is that I've yet to see one which takes into account only elective sections for non medical reasons. We keep having figures flung at us about the slightly increased risk of need for neonatal care etc etc, but these include women who've had sections because there's a pre-identified problem and/or emergency sections.

You might find this article interesting - www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2011/nov/23/health

Wahikiiswhereiwanttobe what utter bollocks.
OP did not ask for your opinion on c/sections.
DD was born via EMCS and it in no way affected our bonding. I was bed bound for 24 hours due to having a cathater in which didn't hinder my ability to care for dd, once it was removed I was up and about as normal. The recovery is not horrendous it's just a case of taking it easy.

OP you can and should request that they change your consultant. Ideally sooner rather than later so you can meet them in plenty of time.

Can I suggest you change hospital if possible? I wasn't 'allowed' to have a water birth or even hypnobirth at my local hospital. So I travelled to a different county who would facilitate. I wasn't prepared to fight at my local hospital as I felt they may change their minds whilst I was vulnerable during labour.

I was surprised at how often medical staff told me I wasn't allowed to do something. They seemed surprised when I wanted a say!

I had a elcs agreed for ds2 after a traumatic birth with ds1. I don't know what it was classified as but probably maternal request as technically I think the risk of bleeding out again wasn't that high due to it being elcs rather than EMCS.

I had no problems at all they didn't question me at all.

I believe this happened as at my 8 week booking in appointment my same midwife came who knew what id been through. She immediately said you'll want a elcs this time? I agreed she said I'll refer to mr XYZ he's lovely, he'll do it for you no problem.

Wahik....what a load of rubbish....IME anyway.

Op I had an elcs for no real
medical reasons .... I understand where you are coming from. I'm thinking if you have a genital outbreak at the time of birth a cs is carried out. However you are obviously anxious. I would ask to see someone regarding your anxieties and put your case forward....

Good luck

Buttercup, A C section is a major operation and should only be done if your life is at stake.
You doctor and midwife say you don't need one and that t is better to have a natural birth. In this case they are right.

It is always better to give birth normally than to have a C section, especially if that surgery might be unnecessary.

C sections carry risks and the recovery can be quite painful for 2 weeks afterwards. Plus having a C section puts you at risk in future pregnancies as the scar can rupture making normal birth in follow up pregnancies difficult.

So C section is not the right way to go. You are far better off having a natural birth and better still have your baby at home where you will have more privacy and be in a more relaxed frame of mind. Yes you can have a home birth with a midwife here in the UK in case you did not know.

wahiki honestly it does sound pretty strange.

I had to vb and god I wished that I pushed harder for a c section tearing and suffering massive bleeding - it took me 9 months to recover second time and I am at risk of incontinence.

Good luck op and yes perhaps change hospital if you can.

Oh good lord, now we're getting people saying home birth is the only way to go? What is in the water tonight?

A C section is a major operation and should only be done if your life is at stake

What bollocks. There are all manner of valid clinical reasons to have a c section. Most aren't life threatening.

*Buttercup-Cheeseandgherkins I carry the herpes virus. The risk is 4%. A risk I'm not prepared to take especially as since I've fallen pregnant my outbreaks have become worse.

Subsequently my anxiety (which I have always suffered with to some degree) has sky rocketed. The thought of a vaginal birth against my wishes doesn't bare thinking about. I'm worried this will lead to pre/post natal depression and possibly PTSD after the birth if made to have a vaginal birth.*

No Buttercup you are wrong. I have looked it up. If you have herpes it is perfectly safe to have a normal birth as long as you are not having any outbreaks of sores when you go into labor. They can check for that at the time if you are woried.
But only if you have any sores or outbreaks at the time do you need a C section.

But if at the time you go into labor you are clear then you can have a normal birth.