UK fight for Caesarean section

[Buttercup28]

Hey ladies

I'm just wondering if anyone could give me some advice and/or success stories of your fight for a caesarean in the UK please?

I have an underlying medical condition which my OB says is not as risky as a c section. However my gut instinct is taking over and I want to be super safe by having this section.

My husband and I have decided to push for a c section due to this underlying medical condition, we think it best all round and more so for the baby.

Well my anxiety about it has been through the roof. I am 25 weeks.

I had an appointment with the obstetrician to discuss this last week.

In a nutshell I was a total emotional wreck and could not stop crying.
Therefore I couldn't put my thoughts and concerns across as much as I should have been able to.

She suggested I was depressed (I am not!) I'm just extremely anxious about the birth due to medical reasons.

She wants me to have a vaginal birth and there was no telling her otherwise.

She said if I see someone about my "depression" then I will have a clearer head as will understand why they want me to have a vaginal birth!!!! I couldn't be more clear on anything else in my life!!

So I have emailed Birth Rights to ask them for help with regards to my next steps.

Since the OB appointment, I have requested to be seen by an OB who is more sympathetic to my medical condition and my overwhelming anxiety that has developed over this. I have emailed PALS at the hospital as I believe the OB did not follow the NICE guidelines.
A supervisor of midwives has scheduled in an appointment with me on Monday to discuss my requirements and concerns re caesarean.

I also had my general 25 week midwife appointment a few days ago. She read the notes and was horrified by what the OB had said. She is 110% behind me with my reasons and agrees a c section would be best.

So I had my appointment today with the birthing reflections midwife at the hospital today.

It was ok, just as I expected. She told me the c section risks and then I spoke about my concerns etc.

She understands my concerns and even said she would feel like how I feel.

However, she isn't confident I will get my section. She said they never do cs on maternal request and that my underlying medical condition wasn't enough risk to warrant the section!!!

If the underlying condition effected my baby, it could be fatal. I am not willing to take that risk.

On top of this, my anxiety is through the roof..really bad.

I have a meeting with he lead obstetrician next Tuesday but she doesn't think it will be granted.

I am so stressed, anxious and upset. I don't know where to turn.

I have 2 good reasons to request this c section and I don't feel anyone is taking me seriously.

Ladies that were granted their section due to anxiety, can I ask how your process was and which hospital it was at?

Thank you

P.s Applogies for any typos I'm on my phone!

DollyBarbs - I don't think there's much danger of you ever being a doctor........
FWIW I bloody loved my CS. DD was breech, plus I had too much fluid, so it wasn't safe to turn her. Didn't feel a thing, it was lovely and relaxed, we bonded straight away, and I was back on my feet within 24 hours. Within 2 weeks I was completely recovered. I have NEVER regretted it, not for one second. Oh, and you don't get 'a big scar on your tummy' - you are cut below the bikini line, so no one ever sees it unless you choose to show it to them. It fades anyway, I can hardly see mine after 6 years. Your ignorance and arrogance on the subject are absolutely breathtaking.

my Victorian times comment is out of place now. And kind of wishing i wasn't a 'dolly' too..

Well if I hadn't had an ELCS with my bloody mahoosive DS, he would have died and probably so would I.

So, tough call, but on balance I'm pretty glad I went for it. Oh, and BF until he was 2.5 years old

Hi Buttercup,
I'm sorry you are having such a
stressful time and I wish you were able, instead, to be looking forward to the birth of your baby.

You are very clear about your areas of concern and I think it's completely understandable that you feel as you do. Whether or not anyone else would make the decision you have made is irrelevant. This is your decision.

I'm sorry the appointment with the birthing midwife has left you feeling so concerned, but I am absolutely certain your appointment with the SOM will result in support to achieve an elective section. This is not a situation of 'maternal request ' but a situation of 'maternal need'.

And when this is sorted out, as it will be , you can look forward to that baby.

So much bollocks is being spouted here. OP I really hope you get what you want. All women should have the choice to try and birth in the way they want, and that should include electing for a CS in my view.

Wahiki - I've had two CS, one emergency and one elective, and I recovered within 10-14 days with both. I know many, many people who had natural births who took months and months to recover (some still haven't). Post-operative care seems to be much more thorough than the care women receive when they have problem following a natural delivery. Prolapses, incontinence (both bladder and bowel) and infected wounds from episiotomies or tears to name just a few... All have struggled to get proper attention after the event. I on the other hand have only one very small scar which is fading as time goes by.

Dolly - no one, least of all the OP, asked you for your views on whether or not a CS is a good thing. The OP asked for advice from people who have successfully elected for a CS based on anxiety issues. If you have no experience of this, just pipe down. Why you think the OP would find your posts helpful or supportive is completely beyond me.

Dolly, you are wrong to call the OP mad. I think that label is all yours. You are also coming across as highly insensitive and pretty fucking thick. I think you've said enough.

OP, I wish you luck with your birth. I was advised to have a planned section with my dd1 as she had stopped growing in the womb, she needed to be delivered 4 weeks early and small babies don't cope well with VB. It was just what I needed after a stressful pregnancy - calm, quick, pain-free positive and lovely. Recovery was fine. No problems at all bonding or bf-ing. I will ask to have a ELCS if I have another baby, without a shadow of a doubt.

Oh, and the scar Dolly talks about. Like that's an issue! It's small, neat and very low. I rather like it; a reminder of my beautiful child's entrance to the world.

I hope you get the support you need and quickly, so you can try to enjoy the rest of your pregnancy OP.

My best wishes to those with difficult stories, too.

My god, what an awful thread.

Stick to your guns op and do what is right for you.

And the rest of you (you know who you are) hang your heads in shame.

A scared, vulnerable op came on here looking for support and this is what she gets? Disgraceful.

I'm 29weeks pregnant with second and had my elcs agreed to last week (DS was a vaginal birth).

It was actually pretty easy, I thought it would be a lot harder. I had written down all my points (it was a long list), of why I felt c section was the only acceptable option for me this time. I was clear about understanding the risks (and benefits) of both forms of birth and the supposedly harder recovery of c section (although I did point out it, I didn't think it could really be worse than the tear I'd had with ds, where my stitches dissolved too fast, leaving wound gaping and meaning any kind of movement pulled it open again and it took 3.5months to heal and still causes pain in certain sexual positions 2.5yrs later - give me a bikini line cut over that anyday.) Consultant was clear that he didn't like c section unless risk to life of mother or child if not, but agreed to do it without fight after id discussd my reasons and shown I accepted risks.

I did not use mental health in my reasoning.

One thing to bear in mind for you is that as you have anxiety, for your hospital to follow NICE guidelines they should refer you to someone specialising in mental health prior to agreeing your c section. If once youve been seen by someone in relation to your mental health, you still want a c section then they should give you one.

In my last pregnancy I suffered really badly with anxiety, it helped me to write difficult stuff out in full, so that I could be clearer in myself what I wanted to say and in what order. If I got in a tiz and still couldnt express myself I'd ask them to read what I'd written and tell them I'd expand after - that gave me chance to calm myself and helped ensure they understood me.

I've had two vb, and I thought natural was amazing and made me bond with dc well, after my emcs with dc3 ( placenta in way discovered during induction amongst other issues!) without which neither of us would be here the bonding thing was just as good, you are the mum, you have the baby however you have it and the bonding happens after that,,,,, not because of it, I even bf dc3 in recovery no problem at all, good luck op if you get an elcs, recovery isn't too bad, yes slightly longer than vb but certainly not weeks and weeks! Compared to my two vb ( both in water) the first five days after cs were distinctly more uncomfortable but basic painkillers sort that easily and after first few days it's just a matter of time to heal and I drove on week three easily. Agree with above various reasons for cs very valid and many not life threatening.

Dear Buttercup28,
Don't worry, the NICE guidelines were rewritten three years ago - about a week after I fought tooth and nail to get my elective c-section (and won). They cannot deny you a section. If the thought of a vaginal birth is upsetting you this much or creating anxiety, that is grounds enough. I had to be signed off by a consultant psychiatrist who had to declare it was better for my mental health to have a c-section. I was furious as I have never felt so sane in all my life. He agreed that it was, er, crazy as he believed patient choice was key in any medical outcome. I knew what I wanted, I knew I didn't trust my body, I knew I didn't trust the lack of continuity in care with ever changing midwives. I really did not want a hugely painful delivery to affect the bond I would have with my child. As it happened, the c-section was no walk in the park. But from what I have heard, a planned section is far less traumatic than a 'natural' birth, despite some trouble with mobility afterwards. Be bold, be strong, look up the latest NICE guidelines and quote them to your useless consultant. Look up the website elective cesarean, it was massively helpful for me.

Buttercup you can ask for a section for any reason you want, if refused you ask for a second opinion and it should be granted.
It will more than likely be done at 39 weeks not sooner and if you went into labour before that, you have to phone the hospital as soon as you are in labour to get things organised.
You will be asked Everytime you are at an appointment if you have changed your mind, you will be asked the same question "are you sure" right up to before they cut you, which i found odd but they have to be sure. You will have to sign paper work with a lot of scary things in it incase anything goes wrong.
Mine went well,it was sore recovering, you do need to take it easy, but surely that's the same with a vb, just a different sore? I've only had a cs so I wouldn't know.
I found it very relaxed, bonding was totally fine.
however I don't know what route I would go if I have a dc2. But that's due to my medical condition and taking into account I will have another child at home and to look after having the baby.

First of all - ladies, don't feed the troll. It just get them going. I know, because I like to do it sometimes in Estonian comments sections for stupid articles. Dolly is probably either a very bitter woman, who has no children and never will or maybe even a teenage boy who never had sex and thinks that it's funny to upset pregnant women.

To answer the OP's question - I had EMCS 9 years ago in Estonia due to not progressing in labour. The section went fine, recovery took about 2 weeks and everything was great. Now I'm pregnant again and around 7 weeks in to pregnancy realised that I can't go VBAC, even if it wasn't dangerous for me or baby. I became quite anxious and asked question on here as well. Got the answer from RedToothBrush, which calmed me down. BTW, thank you Red!
I had 3 appointments: first one said "I cannot agree with it myself, although I don't mind. You need to talk to one more consultant". Second said "you really have no valid medical reasons to have one, but come back in 10 weeks and if you still want it, I can't force you to VBAC". Third one said(as soon as she walked in to the room) "okay, you want a section? Let's book you in then. Where is this book again? Give me the sections book!" So it wasn't really a fight. The consultant who booked me in, is the one who will perform section on me on 2/01.

However, the NICE guidelines are just guidelines and apparently not all the hospitals follow them, so you should actually ask whoever you will go to meet next, whether the hospital follows them. If not, find another hospital. It would be much easier.

When you will be going there write all the reasons on the paper, so you can just read off it, as it will keep you too busy to cry. In my case, I mentioned going through Green-top guideline no.45. The fact that I'd known how to say the name of this document actually impressed them. But it's good only for my case. Try to find something similar, more for your situation.

Also, take someone with you to next appointment who knows your reasons and will be talking for you if you're struggling to find words to say or shout at the consultant if they will make you cry again.

One thing I was planning to do if they refuse to give me my ELCS, was to request the reasons on paper(with consultant's signature), why they didn't give it to me and also written statement that they are fully responsible for any physical/mental damage that might occure during vaginal birth either to me or my baby. I never had to use it, but it might help you in your case.

Anyway, best of luck! I hope you'll get it.

I am currently 37 weeks and have finally had my ELCS agreed.
My reasons are not the same as yours however my reason was due to ruptured discs in my lower Back and having had Clicky hips when I was a baby I didn't feel a vaginal birth was an option. My midwife agreed this at my first appt. I was referred to an OB who told me I was having a natural labour. End off. I also saw an anesthetist consults t who said because I can lean forward for a epidural/spinal I'd be having a natural labour. I started to get very anxious and worried. I phoned the orthopaedic consultants I had seen previously and requested an appt with them. They went over my past MRI scans and agreed that a natural labour could cause a lot of problems for me with my back.y midwife referred me to a physio who said a natural labour was do able... Again I got very anxious as these consultants had seen me for 10 mins and "knew what was best" for me, the ortho consultant Iv seen regularly for 7 years knows me andmy history agreed with me... I phoned my ortho consultant again and requested they give me their opinion in writing! They sent a letter to the OB consultant who contacted me for a repeat appt. she immediately agreed my ELCS.

My point is don't let anybody tell you what's right for you! If you have a specialist or somebody you see reggularly for your personal medical stuff seek their assistance on the matter also. Get as much support as you can and fight it!

And no I don't look forward to being "sliced" open but I know my baby is going to be born in 2 weeks safely and both me and my baby will be fine! Yes recovery may be longer but I'd rather that than have further comications!

Don't let anybody judge you for knowing yourself and trusting you gut

appologies for typos using my phone with a cracked screen lol

Ignore Dolly, he/she/it is on the wind up and clearly hates women so don't feed the beast.

OP if you are set on a section I suggest you calmly 'jump through the hoops' that you need to e.g. See the mental health team, tolerate and lectures and then continue to request your section and ask to be referred to another consultant if you need to until you get your section.

I've had 2, will be having a third, no regrets, no issues and one (even though 2 sections so far) tiny white line of a scar in my bikini line. Oh and if it's of any interest despite not expelling my kids vaginally I would without hesitation, throw myself down and die for them so no issues there!

Sorry - haven't read the whole thread, but

Why oh why don't they listen to the woman? You know yourself and how your body behaves and your own health in a way that someone who you met five minutes before, and who only knows what is written in the notes in front of them, can never know. So they might have more medical knowledge, but we are not just pieces of machinery.......

Glad I've not read the whole thread by the looks of some of the troll comments, so this is for OP.

buttercup I just wanted to throw in my support. I'm coming up on 30weeks and I'm currently in a fight for an ELCS. My reasons are mainly health and risk based, I have severe SPD, arthritis, hypermobility, and very bad scarring on my cervix. Yet the hospital I'm with seem happy to waive my choice based on risks and are insisting that I have a natural birth.

At our first consultation my husband and I were treated like a statistic and told the hospital has an impeccable record of healthy VBs, and that they don't want to 'damage their reputation with risk that is not necessary in their eyes'. The consultant didn't even read my notes (including a letter from my physio). And she also ignored my carefully explained reasoning and research.

We are going back for a second opinion today where we'll spell it out to them; we've made our decision so either they grant it or move us onto another hospital. The whole thing has left me really disgusted with how pregnant women are treated by bureaucratic NHS staff. I appreciate they have targets and all of that, but it's 2014. I'm an educated woman, this baby is planned, my DH and I are professionals in our 30s, not naive kids making blase choices.

I really do hope you get what you're after, please feel free to PM me. I'm in this fight too x

I'm not in the UK. I had an elective c-section with ds 7 years ago because I wanted one. I'd heard too many horror stories about vaginal births and emergency c-sections and decided that if I was going to go through this pregnancy calm and happy, then I had to have the birth I wanted.

And I got it. With no problems whatsoever.
Best decision I ever made.

I am now pg with ds2, due in April. Guess what, I'm electing to have another c-section.

There is no (physical) medical reason to do so. It is my informed choice. And thank fuck that I'm in a country where you can make that choice without any judgement whatsoever.

'damage their reputation with risk that is not necessary in their eyes'

Yet they are happy to damage their reputation in not having women centred care and treat them as something to be processed to produce statistics rather than human beings.

I hope you point out that you will be the one living with the consequences and that's more important than their precious figures.

Good luck today frenetic.

Hi Buttercup, just to let you know I am fighting for a elcs too, although it's not looking too good :(

I am 35 weeks now and seen two consultants who have both said no and that it's not hospital policy to give c sections for maternal request (mine is due to MH reasons). Waiting for them to call me back as have requested to see another consultant and may move hospitals as mine doesn't have a peri natal mental health unit.

Wish you better luck than me XX

Personally I'd hate a section. But everyone's experience is different. I thought you could now elect to have one without all this fighting for your rights. I can see why the medical profession would try and talk you out of it if they don't think it's necessary.

Sorry, I haven't read the full thread either. My situation was similar to TheKitchenWitch although I am in the UK. I was terrified of having a 'natural' delivery mainly due to horror stories from friends and family, but no medical reason why it wouldn't be feasible. My midwife was completely unsympathetic to this and told me "It's not like in the US, you can't just pick and choose how you do it" As if I'd got the notion of a planned CS from watching Friends. However, she did refer me.

I'd worked myself up into a bit of a state by the time the appointment with the consultant came along, and went armed with tons of information. Which I didn't even need - he just agreed that he wouldn't want to try something that everyone else had described as incredibly painful and that sections were 'a doddle'.

It is just potluck though on who/where you end up with. This was North Staffs btw. And I'll be having a CS with my second. No mention of VBAC whatsoever :) Friends have told me it's completely different at Mid Staffs however, and I'd have had no such of getting a section via maternal request.

Good luck everyone with a battle on their hands. It's a horrible situation to be put into.

Well Dolly you must hate me! I had an ELCS for my DTDs and it was bloody fantastic, and 3 years on, there's barely the faintest hint of a scar. I also recovered very quickly, & had no trouble bonding.

I had an elective c-section due to maternal anxiety.
I had a horrendous HSG nov 13 & then cancer op Dec 13.

Discovered I was pregnant end of Dec 13.
Basically I said my cancer op went well & I would go through a thousand more than HSG ever again.

Female consultant was grand about my choice but has said I should speak with a professional about the HSG incident. I'm still to do so - I'm undecided.

Pity her male registrars tried everything to convince me to try for a vagina birth - go figure!!

I stuck to my guns & demonstrated I was very informed & had thoroughly researched.

C-section was booked for the mon but my waters broke on the fri before. No issue getting an emergency section on the sat.

Breast feeding had a very rocky start but that was due to severe tongue tie.
No issues bonding whatsoever.

Wound had some puss but I think it was my own doing, too rough with tea tree oil!

Very neat scar. I still get the odd twitch 15 weeks on but it's honestly not a big deal.

I hope to have another DC & will def go for an elective c-section again.

I did cry a few times with registrar & consultant but they were genuine tears.