Very much looking forward to birth!

[Snowlet]

Right, let's fill this thread with positivity.

I feel empowered, educated, calm, at peace with what my body was born to do and ready to not feel like a truck anymore! (which is so sad because I'm only 29 weeks)

Whatever we'd like our birth plans/preferences to be, whatever choices we make, I'd love for every woman to feel that they are HERS, that she is powerful and that her wishes are important.

It does matter what you want, you should picture your 'perfect' birth over and over again and you can't receive what you don't ask for.

So then, is anyone else looking forward to labour and birth as the unique, life changing experience it will undoubtedly be?

Oh both my births so far have been wonderful and Im looking forward to giving birth for the 3rd time (in 13 days Woop) .... I always have an elective planned c section with all the drugs I could want or need

lavolcan, this from UNICEF www.unicef.org/pon97/p48b.htm suggests that the lifetime risk of a mother dying in childbirth in countries like Afghanistan or Sierra Leone is 1 in 7. ONE IN SEVEN. That's why stuff about 'this is what my body was made to do' pisses me off. Of course we are entitled to expect more than just being alive at the end of labour in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. But nevertheless, it is a useful statistic to bear in mind for those inclined to dismiss the benefits of on tap skilled medical intervention in childbirth. Left to its own devices, nature really doesn't mind a lot of casualties.

I agree Bambamb I found my first birth enjoyable, although heavily intervention full, which I think was probably unecessary. My second birth was the most profound experience of my life, up to that point. Sound woo, but it's true. And yes, I too, have been in more pain from illness.

(So since it was a homebirth it was a bit annoying, to say the least, to have it dismissed as 'luck', and then you learn not to bother to tell a positive birth story because so many don't want to know.)

My births were painful and I screamed a lot but I still enjoyed them. They felt miraculous It's a bit like the early days of having a new baby which is both overwhelming and incredible at the same time.

it is a useful statistic to bear in mind for those inclined to dismiss the benefits of on tap skilled medical intervention in childbirth.

Who is doing this? Those stats are from countries that cannot be compared to the UK. Many of the women will not have access to hospitals, ambulances, antibiotics, antibacterial handwash etc etc. They may have poor diets, have illnesses that we no longer have here due to our vaccination regimes & medications etc etc. It is not comparable.

When I said who is doing this I meant who is dismissing the benefits of on tap medical intervention? I don't think anyone has mentioned trying to birth alone with no assistance.

I think a lot of people have muddled the idea of positive thinking and being opposed to all kinds of intervention. The OP wanted to think positively about her birth and to expect it to turn out well. This isn't the same as disapproving of medical interventions - it's hoping that you won't need them because your birth will be straightforward. Aren't we all allowed to hope for an easy labour? It doesn't mean we would refuse intervention or that we would regard it as a failure if we needed it. But we know that uncomplicated and enjoyable births do happen so we hope and prepare for this. If something goes wrong, we are profoundly grateful to live in a wealthy country with an excellent health service.

Please, look at how the thread started and consider how sad and inappropriate it is that a message of hope and optimism has become a discussion of maternal death. The OP has been long gone and I can see why!

I agree Bambamb I found my first birth enjoyable, although heavily intervention full

Thank you for sharing this LaVolcan - I find this kind of story enormously reassuring. Why? Because unlike "it will be either hellish or perfect - no middle ground" (which some birth threads seem to suggest) it shows that a first birth can be good even if intervention happens. It can still be OK. Thank you.

Jelly yes!! This. I am so glad I live in 21st century Britain. :)

Yes I agree. My first birth was a planned home water birth. I was very positive about it. It ended up 3 weeks early, IV antibiotics, syntocinon drip, epidural, morphine, meconium & foul smelling placenta. I still found the whole experience very positive indeed. I was always prepared for a new plan should my original one need to change, which it did. I accepted it, revised my thinking and decided, hey ho if it's going to be medical may aswell go the whole hog and have an epidural. It was great.
Second baby, tried again for the water birth and this time got my wish, it was utterly amazing, peaceful, not massively painful and I felt like if I can do that I can do ANYTHING! Which is a great feeling.
And if someone wants a c-section like the pp above then I would support that too if it is an informed decision.

A positive attitude before birth can't do any harm and there is a vague possibility it may do some good. Good luck OP, I hope you come back and update and that your birth is magical, relaxing and pain free.

[I had a 36 hour back to back labour first time and it was ok, not quite magical but certainly bearable]

it is good that you feel confident and empowered etc but be careful that you are not so busy envisaging the perfect birth that you are forgetting things can go differently to how u plan. I had all sorts of plans for my first but ended up having forceps and felt like a failure for ages.

Haven't read all the responses, but wanted to tell you that I LOVED giving birth!

Have done it twice. First one was very long labour, ended up with forceps, very close to being a C-section. Was painful.

Second one I had an epidural. It was fabulous.

I loved both births, it DID feel amazing and empowering. I would do it all again tomorrow if I could.

Good luck OP, stay positive! It may well be the most amazing experience of your life - certainly was for me.

Zoemaguire I wouldn't disagree with you, they were collecting the stats on a different basis than the ones I quoted which was a comparison with the ratio to live births.

Except that I don't think you can compare a war torn country or one still recovering from a civil war with one which has been at peace for 70 odd years. So in those countries young men will be dying in droves, people won't live until old age, there will be food shortages, health and education infrastructures will have broken down, or never been built up in the first place, but if we get annoyed it's because we know it ought not to be like that.

So personally I wouldn't have a problem saying that this is what women's bodies were designed to do. It doesn't deny that some will need extra help, it doesn't deny the need for skilled attendants, or sometimes emergency interventions, but for me it's too much to say that this is what all women should expect.

Oh FFS.

Poverty, disease, injury, malnutrition, the constant stress of living in highly dangerous and fraught conditions like civil war - these will all interfere with the body's natural processes.

In this country, in the 19th century well-to-do women often suffered Vitamin D deficiency so severely it warped their pelvis. The introduction of the first maternity hospitals had such appalling hygiene that infection raged through them like wildfire. Maternal mortality increased because of these things - not because women's bodies were ill-equipped to give birth but because of circumstance and social convention. Medical practices around birth in the mid 20th century created more trauma and powerlessness for women eg twilight sleep, forcing them to lie on their backs etc. Things like this contributed to the fear and generally pervasive narrative that birth is bad to which we are all now continuously exposed.

But, seriously, how on earth does a thread go from 'I'm in my 3rd trimester and really excited about giving birth - it's such an amazing thing and I hope it goes well' to 'HAHA, JUST COUNT YOURSELF LUCKY IF YOU DON'T DIE IN SCREAMING AGONY, YOU NAIVE FOOL'. It's sad and shameful that some people have felt the need to respond that way.

However, amongst the mocking and scaremongering, there have been some great stories of women who have enjoyed birth - whether that's an intervention-free water birth, a c-section, an instrumental delivery or whatever. That's great, that's empowering and that's encouraging. So let's celebrate a positive attitude to birth - celebrate our bodies' natural abilities and celebrate the advances in medical technology that help us out if and when we need them. Birth in the 21st century in this country SHOULD be a good experience. Women should feel dignity and control and joy. Don't tell pregnant women to expect terror, agony and misery under the guise of 'preparing them for the inevitable' because it is not inevitable.

My DD is going to be 7 this Friday so memories of her birth are very much in my mind right now.

I had what would appear to be a fairly typical induced labour, 3 pessaries, 50 hours from start to finish and all the drugs going. Not great but a 'natural' birth in the end.

Roll on to a few hours later when its clear something wasn't right. She ended up having major bowel surgery at 3 days old, more at 6 weeks and spent nearly 2 months in hospital. She has an incurable chronic health condition that we had no idea she had.

But, I look back on her birth with happiness and pride. She was back to back but between us we turned her round as I was pushing her out. Her heart rate never dipped and she stayed strong throughout.

So for me birth has left me with some very positive memories and thank god it did as come Saturday this week I will be remembering all the crap that came after.

Op, you have every right to be positive but you can never be prepared for what may actually happen even if you've read every text book going.

Brilliant post jelly

Excellent post, Jellyandcake

Jelly That's such a reassuring post. Especially:
"there have been some great stories of women who have enjoyed birth - whether that's an intervention-free water birth, a c-section, an instrumental delivery or whatever. That's great, that's empowering and that's encouraging. So let's celebrate a positive attitude to birth - celebrate our bodies' natural abilities and celebrate the advances in medical technology that help us out if and when we need them. Birth in the 21st century in this country SHOULD be a good experience."

I'm probably hammering this point again though ... I'm in the 'getting prepared for your 1st and my experience is online there is a tendency to conflate a 'good' birth with a painless birth/no intervention. I think that is where the 'backlash' from some comes from, and anxiety for women like me who wonder if it's 'all or nothing' (Good=pain-free homebirth, bad-and-you'll-be-traumatised = everything else). Logically I'd say most people fall somewhere in the middle, and over half must be happy-although-it-hurts?

What would be WONDERFUL would - and this sounds weird - more diverse and 'average' birth stories. Stories like I've started reading on these last 2 pages... where something (which might happen) happened, or the pain was more than anticipated, but the mum was very happy overall.

Experienced ladies... do you know any sources of this kind of story? My main source has been RL friends, Jelly could have been talking about them!! Everything from a 2 hr birth, almost didn't get to hospital to a 10lb whopper with a stay in hospital to a C section under general (after a minor car crash! ) ... and no-one's blanched in horror but been matter of fact and practical.
Why does this happen in RL but not online?

Jelly your posts are getting increasingly ranty and a tad dramatic.

Yes, the first few posts on this thread were dismissive, but the thread has evolved into a sane and civilised discussion. Most of the responders have said something along the lines of "Good for you OP. Good luck, But also be aware things can go awry."

I am baffled by your continuous insistence that there is scaremongering and "telling pregnant women to expect terror, agony and misery ."

Just as good birth stories need to be revelled in, agonising birth stories should also be acknowledged. They can't be swept under the carpet in case pregnant women get scared. That is what our mothers and grandmothers did, for goodness' sakes!! Not talk to your daughter about marriage, sex, relationships or childbirth. Now with more medical transparency, we can arm ourselves with a little bit more knowledge and be that much more aware.

Not prepared, aware. I want to make that distinction because as I said upthread, when there is a medical emergency, your so-called choices will fly out the window. Dad in theatre or not, who cuts the umbilical cord etc will not register as doctors battle to save a newborn.

Agree with Sillylass about fear. Maternal mortality rates have gone down dramatically in decades, but that topic is a red herring. No one is saying a labouring mother is likely to die a horrible death, but just that the birthing process is a bit more complicated than a walk in the park. And instead of chanting "be positive", it will actually be more useful if their fears were noted and help provided to address those fears.

Among the seven worst hospital trusts in the country for maternity care, six are in London. Health units have been sued and closed because of major failings in maternity care. Your assertion that birth SHOULD be a good experience is evangelical.

Squizita I think most births in the real world are like the ones you describe. Mums are more matter-of-fact about the labour and the direction it is going in. They take decisions based on how things unfold or are steered into the right decisions at that time.

Only on MN will you find all this angst and hand-wringing. Nobody in RL will spare more than a moment's thought about the type of birth you had. As long as you are healthy and the baby is fine, it doesn't matter. And even if things go wrong, no one is going to be sitting there analysing the process, I am sure they will be on hand offering practical help and support.

snowlet I think the downside of all that visualisation is that you may feel very let down and dissappointed if things don't go to plan, many women are, they end up with a sense of guilt or traumatised.
I do so hope that things work out as you want them too, but don't become too fixed on the idea that as long as you stay positive then everything will stay sweet. There may be situations that are beyond your control or even if they don't you may find the whole normal process too much and end up begging for an epidural.
You won't find out how you really react to the pain until you are there, we are all different and every birth is different.

I did all the active birth workshops, the yoga, read up, and although my birth was straightforward nothing prepared me for the intensity and trauma of the pain. Thankfully hospital staff were there to help when I had no reserves or control left.

Plesae have an open mind. You may be convinced that you will never want pethidine or an epidural now, it's quite another thing when you are in labour.

Really good point Squizita. I think that my experience was unusually good. In my NCT group of nine couples the experiences went from a baby born prematurely in very stressful circumstances, a baby that went two weeks over and had to be induced, a home water birth that was more painful than anticipated, an EMCS, a case of pre-eclampsia, hospital births with and without epidurals, an instrumental delivery and my birth centre water birth... basically a very wide selection!

We were all fine! Everyone's reaction to their birth was different, but three years on and most of us are on second babies so I guess no one's experience was so traumatic as to prevent them from doing it again. There were no real horror stories, though obviously some had a worse time than others.

I guess online you get the more extreme stories and people tell them to support their own point of view. For example, I have told my birth story as an ideal experience, emphasising that it was calm and easy. I did have a 2nd degree tear though and a really awful time establishing breastfeeding so it wasn't like I sprang out of the pool and started drifting round flower meadows with my angelic newborn beaming beatifically at everyone. But I did have a positive and enjoyable experience of childbirth.

Next month when dc2 is due, I'm approaching my labour in the same way but if, for example, I went really overdue and needed to be induced I would be planning on an epidural. At home, in a pool, I don't expect to need one but if I was on a hospital ward being induced I think I would. I wouldn't think of that as a failure or a bad birth. I agree it's damaging to equate 'good birth' with 'no intervention'. It's as bad as the attitude that all birth is terrible. Neither are true or helpful to women.

Amrapaali The op wanted to hear about the good experiences that mothers giving birth have had.
First line of op "Right, let's fill this thread with positivity. "

All the other stuff could have gone on a separate thread.
Instead, the op seems to have been treated as naive to think that her labour/delivery could all go the way she hopes. She has already said she is aware there may be deviations from her plan. So, although she is aware of those things she would like to focus on a good experience and was asking other people for their good experiences (which may or may not involve interventions).

Or at least that's how I read the post.