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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Am I being unreasonable? Dad to be...please help

999 replies

simba86 · 11/03/2014 20:25

My wife and I, married for 3 years, together for 10, in our late 20s are expecting our first child at the end of May.

My wife has never really got on with my parents, particularly my mum, and whilst they live 2 hours away we see them ever couple of months.

I am obviously very excited about becoming a dad. I love my wife more than anyone in the world and so much looking forward to having our own family. I am also looking forward to being a proud dad and introducing our baby to my parents shortly after the birth, when everything has calmed down and my wife is well enough to see not visitors, but our immediate family.

However because of the break down in the relationship between my wife and my parents, my wife does not want me to let them know if she goes into labour, so that they are not hanging around the hospital or nearby, nor does she want them to visit after the birth until she is ready, which she has indicated could be many hours after the birth, or when we go home, or even a week or so after the birth. She is so stressed out about this she has driven off tonight after writing me a letter saying she doesnt want me at the birth, nor does she want me to be her husband.

I can assure you I have been as supportive of her and her family over the past 10 years more than most people could ever imagine, and as someone who has a rare medical condition with no known cure and an uncertain future, an only child, I don't want to miss out on a special moment for me.

I dont want my parents hanging around or interfering and have made that clear to my wife, I just want to share a moment with my parents, my wife and our baby shortly after they are born when my wife ia well enough.

Surely this isn't me being unreasonable....or is it?

Please share your opinion on this

OP posts:
SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 20/03/2014 08:15

Yes - it is a perfect example of the ebb and flow I was talking about, simba. At this point in your family life, because she's the one who has been through pregnancy, labour and delivery, your wife is the one whose needs and comfort come first, during that post partum period of a week or so. After that, it's not a complete switch to your needs and comfort coming first ('It was your turn for the last 10 days, now it's MY turn and what I say, goes), but things start to even up, gradually.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. You will get your lovely, simba moment, when you show your beautiful baby to your parents, and get to share that joy with them - and it WILL be just as beautiful and special if it is when the baby is 10 days old, or a fortnight old, or whatever, as it would be if the baby was only hours old.

venturabay · 20/03/2014 08:16

I see absolutely no reason whatsoever why I should let the father cut the cord if that's not what I want. My husband wasn't even present at the birth of any of the DC. I didn't want him there at all. This is one time when a father should totally respect the mother's wishes and back right off, IMO.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 20/03/2014 08:17

" I am being unreasonable though by taking actions that will increase my wifes adrenaline which could infact unnecessarily slow down or even stop the pregnancy by letting my parents know when she is going into labour etc so I certainly understand why I shouldn't do anything like that now. Facts like this would have been a useful comment at the start. "

This was posted on the first page of the thread, ten minutes after your OP:

AShadowStirsWithin Tue 11-Mar-14 20:35:58
When you are pregnant for the first time you are scared. Your hormones are in overdrive and you instinctively fight for what you believe will help you most. I actually growled at ex P when in labour because I needed space. This is the one time she HAS to call all the shots. Calm aids labour, stress can slow it down and make her less able to prepare for birth and cope with the pain. If she says she wants a troop of dancing monkeys at the birth you get then for her, if she says she wants to give birth hanging from the ceiling wearing only her slippers you promise you will make that happen. No matter whether you think she is being unreasonable, you agree to support her with whatever she wants because that baby is in her, and it needs to come out. The most important thing to aid that baby in coming out is that she is calm and happy and supported. It is literally that simple.

squizita · 20/03/2014 08:22

what I percieve rightly or wrongly to be feminist views whereby mother has earnt the right to call the shots because of going through labour,

Go an read Inabeautifulplace's post HE IS A MAN. A MAN WHO IDENTIFIES AS A 'BLOKE'.

And he's saying the same as all the women, feminist, traditional or not.

Also- traditionally (pre pre pre feminism) there was a time of confinement around birth. A time away from the rest of the tribe with only close women. It's not a new thing.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 20/03/2014 08:33

I would have been happy for DH to cut the cord , he didn't want to, I respect that.

If he'd wanted to cut it and I didn't want him to, damn straight he would not have been cutting it. It being part of my body and all.

Inkspellme · 20/03/2014 08:56

going to buck the trend here and say you are not being completly unreasonable. I think it is entirely reasonable for your wife to not want her inlaws around when she is giving birth and in the day or two afterwards. I think a week is unreasonable. yes, the birth is about her and baby but the baby is also yours. you want to show your child to your parents. I get that. I would reassure your wife that you will be doing any looking after of all visitors not just your parents. I would suggest to your wife that she can at any time during said visits go off for a rest.

when I was pregnant with my second child I had a crying fit complete with tears and shouting cos my husband sat in the wrong chair in the hospital waiting room. totally out of character for me. looking back I see it was because I was scared and very hormonal in the last couple of weeks coming up to due date. I felt I had no control over things and all I was was a baby carrier. So I tried to control everything else including where my husband sat! Maybe your wife is scared too?

lottiegarbanzo · 20/03/2014 09:09

OMFG.

No one has suggested birth is not an important time for the father, or that he shouldn't be prepared to participate and take choices in relevant ways, like cutting the cord. So what are you talking about? Where's the point you're trying to argue against there? How are you in a minority?

Are you actually trying to suggest that a choice to cut the cord equates to a choice to change the terms of your relationship not long after birth? Maybe you should have discussed your intentions to be 'firmer' with your class? Their responses might have been interesting, don't you think?

You perceive wrongly about people here putting forward a 'feminist view'. No-one is discussing ideology or politics or talking from such a standpoint. People, with relevant experience, are doing you the big favour of taking the time to share their experience - from a very practical and personal perspective.

Above all, people are posting with humanity, compassion and generosity. All things sadly lacking from your portrayal of yourself.

It says so much about your 'rights focused' approach, intransigence and your desperation to be 'right' that you perceive disagreement in terms of ideological conflict and need to be able to package up and shunt away all views you don't like, in a neatly labelled box.

As I have tried to explain, the time when you were just two adults, responsible only for yourselves, was the time to make any changes to your relationship. You've had ten years. It's too late now.

Now, you reap what you've sown. You fall back on the basics that underpin your relationship. You could both be about to drag yourselves through a year of sleep deprivation, with a baby as your priority and your own interests falling by the wayside. Sleep varies a lot, could be more, or less. That's not the best condition in which to have meaningful discussions about your relationship.

You're still just not getting that the coming months and years (not just those first few weeks) will not be about you and what you want.

This disingenuous 'haven't had a baby before' twaddle is more 'poor little me, indulge me' crap. It's irrelevant to the point you're making. You want to control your wife's behaviour. You haven't been able to before but now, you think you can use her the line of 'oh but it's best for the baby, see, I'm thinking about the baby' to manipulate - emotionally blackmail, to use your wording - her into doing what you want.

Your idea that 'nipping her unreasonableness in the bud' will reduce stress for the baby is just bollocks. You think she's going to bow her head and submit to you, rather than arguing and being upset by your controlling behaviour? You still haven't understood that how she feels is much more important to the baby's well being than you feeling you are right and in charge?

Frankly, you sound like you're trying to train an animal. Her behaviour, your management of her behaviour. Her unreasonableness - oh but never yours. How often do you apologise for your behaviour?

You've placed her in a vulnerable position, not just for a few weeks but for eighteen plus years, during which she is going to prioritise her child over herself and try to maintain a stable home environment.

Now, rather than supporting her, being delighted with and for her, and accepting the relationship you have - or showing any evidence of actually loving her - you've decided to take advantage of her changed priorities to attack her, disrespect and undermine her feelings on an important issue for her, and hoping you'll be able to achieve a change you couldn't when she was on top form and free to leave.

On however minor a level, you are giving us a case study in why abusive behaviour increases in the post-natal phase. Because selfish, power-hungry men decide to take advantage of their wife's vulnerability and massively curtailed personal freedom to shift the power in their relationship.

brdgrl · 20/03/2014 09:38

A baby's father has no 'right' to be present at the birth, or to cut the cord. Her body, her choice, her medical decisions.

JaneinReading · 20/03/2014 09:43

It certainly makes those of us who don't have a man vindicated in our decision at times, reading of men like this.

Yes, his life will change. He will need to protect his wife from his parents if she doesn't like or want them around. He needs to be working out how to keep them away eg saying no visitors for 2 weeks and then ensure they stay at a hotel or just come for the day.

AuroraRoared · 20/03/2014 09:46

you are giving us a case study in why abusive behaviour increases in the post-natal phase. Because selfish, power-hungry men decide to take advantage of their wife's vulnerability and massively curtailed personal freedom to shift the power in their relationship.

This absolutely. You intend to take advantage of her vulnerability in the postnatal period to try to force changes on her which up until now she has resisted.

You sound like a real piece of work, that's for sure.

pommedeterre · 20/03/2014 09:53

Focusing on the mother in the post natal period is the best way to focus on the baby. It is her the baby needs.

LoonvanBoon · 20/03/2014 10:09

Bloody awesome posts, lotty. I really hope simba can take some of these points on board, though the signs aren't auspicious.

BirdintheWings · 20/03/2014 10:19

I'm scratching my head here. I mean, Simba, you keep coming back, and clearly think you're being reasonable, indeed admirable.

There is an adamant, entrenched view on your part that you will need to decide what's reasonable, because your wife can't be trusted -- in fact you assume she will take an unreasonable stance on things to do with this baby and family life unless corrected 'firmly' by you, or a doctor, or, I dunno, several randoms from the Internet.

Why?

TheFabulousIdiot · 20/03/2014 10:23

"I am being unreasonable though by taking actions that will increase my wifes adrenaline which could infact unnecessarily slow down or even stop the pregnancy [Sic] by letting my parents know when she is going into labour etc so I certainly understand why I shouldn't do anything like that now. Facts like this would have been a useful comment at the start. "

I believe this was mentioned several times.

"Calm aids labour, stress can slow it down and make her less able to prepare for birth and cope with the pain. "

"She can indeed insist you are not there if she wishes, her being calm and stress free is so important"

"Giving birth, besides everything else, is also very stressful. She does not need the added stress of having your parents hovering behind the door, she really does not. "

These are all replies you might have missed.

"I hope that stress caused by her actions for both of us can be nipped in the bud, as that stress will undoubtedly be felt by the baby which ia cruel, unnecessary and what I want to.avoid at all.cost."

So you really are that foul that you would throw the 'YOU are stressing out the baby' crap into the mix? The best way to stop your wife from stressing is not to 'nip it in the bud' by being firm but to listen to what she wants and needs to have a happy about and a happy post birth experience.

Whatever your parent's wishes turn out to be for after the birth you MUST put the needs and requests of your wife before those of your parents.

Why don't you call your parents and let them know that you and your wife will be contacting them only after the baby is born, would like them to wait a week before they visit and suggest some B&Bs for them to stay in when they do? Also tell them not to book in advance and that you will let them know when it is OK to arrive.

let your wife know this is what you are going to do.

brdgrl · 20/03/2014 10:31

It really comes across that your concern is not for your wife at all, but for your position as the father. Even when it comes to her happiness and stress levels, you are only interested in the effect on the child, as if she is there to push out your heir and property.

It is, as someone said up-thread, "chilling" to read. I wonder how you will treat your wife after the baby arrives. It doesn't look good. I really feel heartbroken for your wife, who has been with you since a teenager.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 20/03/2014 10:36

A baby's father has no 'right' to be present at the birth, or to cut the cord. Her body, her choice, her medical decisions.

Yup, and you better believe it simba - because the hospital agrees with that too.

If you start throwing your weight around post-birth - trying to control your wife, visitors etc - your wife can exercise her right as the patient to have you removed from the ward.

She's been so upset with you in the past week, that already she has told you she didn't want you at the birth, and didn't want you to be her husband any more - take heed. If you start trying to be "firmer" with her after the birth, she will revert to that position.

BirdintheWings · 20/03/2014 10:36

Yup.

She was imagining a time of quiet recovery after the birth. This clashes with your wishes so is 'unreasonable'.

You were imagining a proud father moment with your parents ASAP. This clashes with her wishes so she's being unreasonable...

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 20/03/2014 11:06

"frankly, you sound like you're trying to train an animal. Her behaviour, your management of her behaviour. Her unreasonableness - oh but never yours. How often do you apologise for your behaviour?"

^^ this

lottiegarbanzo · 20/03/2014 11:15

That is such a good question BirdintheWings. I have an image of some sort of child-woman or foundling raised by apes, who he feels the need to train, manage and steer through life, for her own benefit of course.

I just wanted to stress the point OP, that I am not 'calling you' an abuser. I am saying that your planned behaviour resembles abusive behaviour. I really, really hope that shocks you. It has shocked me. More than that, I hope it gives you pause for thought.

Not much evidence of that here though! I suspect your reaction will be 'mean internet lady called my abusive, wahhh / nasty cow, shove that idea in box and throw it away'.

I'm not actually suggesting you have deliberately planned a power-shift campaign. I really hope you haven't. I don't think you sat down one day and thought 'hmm, excellent, wife pregnant, here's my opportunity to get what I want at long last, while her defences are down. Her priority will have shifted to the baby so she won't be looking out for herself so much. She'll be very keen to maintain a stable home for this baby forever and will probably sacrifice her own well-being and happiness to achieve that. Not only will she want to do the best for the baby but she'll be concerned about what others perceive as doing the best. She won't want to be seen as the one who broke up a family out of selfishness and, won't it be easy to portray her that way? After all, who wouldn't want their child to have a good relationship with its grandparents? Excellent; public opinion, received wisdom of the vaguest, most general so easily manipulable sort will be on my side. She'll be perpetually tired for months, so not interested in deep discussions, or at her most razor sharp, so my strategy of relentlessly banging on and on and on (and on) with the same point, pretending to have listened to her views by mouthing some of the words back but actually taking no notice at all, should work really well. Eventually she'll just roll over and give in for the sake of a quiet life, fab!'.

Rather, I think the pregnancy has prompted new thoughts and happy dreams about how you want your family to be and made you feel a bit desparate about wanting to re-integrate your parents into your immediate family. You may fear that they are never going to have much of a grandparent role and that's really panicking you.

That much is understandable. How you're proposing to go about addressing the issue isn't.

Many days ago, you asked the question 'given the involvement of my parents is so important to me, why doesn't my wife recognise that and go along with agreeing a visit for me, because she loves me?'

That was a good question. You should ask her.

We've dealt with the earliness of the proposed visit and need for recovery time ad infinitum but, after that? She hasn't said anything about avoiding them beyone a couple of weeks but you seem to fear the exclusion may be extended.

In which case, three obvious generic answers:

  1. She doesn't really love you (no evidence of that here, though how could we know).

  2. She loves you but the pain of what you're asking seems too great for her to endure for your sake, the cost is greater than the benefit, or at least too great to contemplate just now.

  3. She loves you but sees your parents as a poisonous influence on your family (that's you, her, baby), so thinks it would be best if they were kept at arms length forever.

You need to understand which of those it is before you have any chance of addressing the issue. I'm utterly going in round in circles here, as are we all, in response to your selective reading and repetitiveness but, as I said about a week ago, you really, really need to LISTEN to her. Listen, absorb, reflect, discuss, understand. Before you, jointly, come up with a strategy to improve things.

Stop trying, mentally and verbally, to trick and batter her into submission.

FairPhyllis · 20/03/2014 12:04

Simba, you very fundamentally don't seem to understand how to have a healthy relationship.

Adults in an emotionally healthy relationship operate on the basis of trust, compassion, respect, compromise, non-aggression, teamwork and pragmatism.

You, on the evidence of this thread, are operating on the basis of self-interest, contempt for your wife, desire to control, adversarialness and absence of compassion.

Your attitudes and planned behaviours also sound abusive to me and I can only recommend that you seek counselling to understand and overcome these attitudes.

FetchezLaVache · 20/03/2014 12:27

Absolutely brilliant posts, Lottie.

AskBasil · 20/03/2014 13:12

"SharpLily Thu 20-Mar-14 07:12:26
Simba, after an awful lot of replies one thing remains - you started this thread to ask if you were being unreasonable. The response has been a resounding, staggering, overwhelming 'yes, you are being very unreasonable'. In fact I don't think I've ever seen as much consensus on an AIBU. "

And yet Simba will still keep coming back to tell us that the only reason we see through his abusive attitudes, is because we're feminists.

Next he'll be telling us we all hate men because we understand how important it is, that women call the shots about their own birth and baby-bonding experience.

800 or so posts, taking up women's time, energy and focus and yet not hearing anything except the posts of the man-pleasers.

Textbook.

WTF has this woman done so unreasonable anyway?

WTF has the MIL done to make her so unreasonable?

Never the full story.

NaturalBaby · 20/03/2014 13:29

Simba Partner should put wife's (needs?) above baby... Yes.

The baby does not need to see it's grandparents within a few hours of arriving into the world, it needs to bond with it's mother and father. Labour is as tough for baby as it is for mother, baby also goes through labour and birth and has to recover as much (if not more) than the mother.

"if I simply agree to everything she says, the feeling of resentment will surely just fester" It depends on why you are feeling so resentful about your wife's wishes. She has a right to her feelings and emotions - they are real and valid. Figure out why you feel so resentful about it rather than blaming her for feeling the way she does.
What are you not agreeing on, apart from how long you will wait to let your parents meet your baby? If it concerns your wife's body then you do pretty much have to agree to everything she says.

mathanxiety · 20/03/2014 14:06

I am being unreasonable though by taking actions that will increase my wifes adrenaline which could infact unnecessarily slow down or even stop the pregnancy by letting my parents know when she is going into labour etc so I certainly understand why I shouldn't do anything like that now. Facts like this would have been a useful comment at the start.

This is just about the coldest comment ever from a husband about why he needs to be nice to his wife during labour.

And on top of the serious strangeness of it there is the tetchiness that he has somehow had vital information kept from him, which only reinforces the impression that there is a complete inability to see his wife as a person, or appreciate what human relationships consist of that jumps out from Simba's posts all through the thread.

What sort of person needs to have some medical considerations made clear to him to persuade him that upsetting his wife during labour is a bad idea?

More and more I am wondering what the heck is going on here and how someone can be so utterly cold, clinical and frankly uncaring or even humane towards a woman he claims to love and to want to stay married to for as long as they both shall live.

squizita · 20/03/2014 14:15

Math "What sort of person needs to have some medical considerations made clear to him to persuade him that upsetting his wife during labour is a bad idea?"

You know upthread I mentioned a relative who might have NPD? They had a similar childhood situation/parent relationship?
Read this: psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/
It is becoming apparent to me that OP needs some help with his own mental health - and like all health conditions, ignoring it and blaming others will just make it worse.

Swipe left for the next trending thread