Man sleeping on ward

[heylottie]

I am on a 4 bed maternity ward, a small ward with beds divided by curtains. 5 day old dd currently in SCBU getting help with low blood sugar.

Its been awful but I can't fault the care and kindness of the nursing staff who are great

But

Last night a woman was admitted at 11pm, I didn't see her as curtains drawn. I was aware that someone was sat in the chair next to my curtain, ie two foot from my bed. I got up at 2am and went to the loo.

Turns out her husband was asleep on the chair.

I don't know if I am coming or going at moment, but I don't think this is appropriate is it? Woman was asleep. I mentioned to staff and they said oh he's waiting for his baby to settle in the incubator. Whilst I appreciate that, could he not have waited in the family tv room down the corridor?

Or am I being over sensitive? I just think this is a vulnerable enough time without this.

It wouldn't have bothered me. People sleep during the day and night on hospital wards so the chances are that men might be visiting whilst somebody is sleeping.
Surely if somebody is really bothered by the possibility of having a man around at night supporting his wife in possibly traumatic circumstances then they should pre-book a private room so that they can ensure their privacy.
I was admitted to a maternity ward late at night due to complications in the pregnancy and my husband went home at around midnight (1 hour after we arrived at the ward), I'm sure some of the other women didn't want him on the ward at that time but I couldn't exactly carry my own bag and he wanted to make sure that I was okay before he left (he had to come back 3 hours after leaving anyway due to my waters breaking).

It's the year 2014, only a few decades ago some women would have been complaining that men shouldn't be in maternity wards or delivery suites at all. We need to move with the times and husbands are often the best support in overstretched NHS hospitals.
There's also no point arguing that the man might be a criminal or a drug user etc as the new mother might also be any of those things and some new mothers are fairly mobile after giving birth.

But it is brighter during the day and there are more hospital staff in general around and people can hopefuly have their own loved ones there with them while they sleep. Only someone totally exhausted can sleep during visiting hours.

I think generally it's inappropriate but I'd let it go at that time of the night under circumstances where a bsby needs an incubator. I would like to think if something was going off that others wouldn't make a fuss about my dp being there.

I wish dp could have been there for me but like other posters say there really isn't the room.

Sorry also just to add I was really upset and traumatised my husband couldn't stay with me first time round and adament husbands should be allowed to stay. It is the concerns of the midwives who are in the know that makes me now realise it was for the best, it wouldn't have even occurred to me before then it might be unsafe and I should book a private room.

I think the real problem is the lack of private rooms. When building new hospitals or refurbishing wards, there is not enough being done to put this into plans in sufficient numbers.

Because of the nature of having a baby and the fact that it involves two people there should be a lot more consideration to the family unit. Its clear that a husband being asked to leave is distressing to a sizeable percentage of women, and its also distressing to many men (to the point that it ISN'T just women who suffer PTSD following a traumatic birth experience). The argument is always put that this isn't possible due to cost - yet there are a number of maternity units which are all private rooms and I believe it is more common north of the border too. Having that extra much needed support, may not be costly either, if not doing so adds to the trauma and therefore has knock on costs.

I am in a situation where, for my mental health, we have requested that my DH be allowed to stay. We discussed this prior to getting pregnant and it has been agreed that they will make exceptions to the normal rules to allow this in a private room. They have agreed that given the level of anxiety that my request is not unreasonable and is in my best interests. But my fear is that on the day that despite the hospital agreeing in principle, they will not be able to accommodate this and what would happen in those circumstances. We have deliberately picked a hospital further from us with more private rooms to give us the best chance to stop this happening, but we are only able to do this because we have the transport and live in an area where there are a number of hospitals within a reasonable area. The most local hospital to us, only has 4 private rooms so I simply did not consider it.

Its difficult, how do you balance a situation where you have a patient who perhaps has a strong and severe case and it is not in their best interests of their health to remove their partner with the needs of a number of other patients who may feel like their privacy is compromised (and it may indeed cause distress to) when the facilities are simply inadequate?

I also think the issue comes back time and time again to the fact that giving birth, is unlike other health issues, in the way it is not only a physical process but also a deeply emotional and psychological one that simply isn't properly recognised and understood in that way. The focus is too much about the target of a healthy baby, and totally neglects the psychological needs of women as often unimportant when they are a massive issue that are costing the NHS millions every year as a direct result of this neglect.

I don't think anyone should have to be separated from their partners. It is one of the reasons that I had DS1 in a hospital where DH was welcome to stay and they put up a bed for him. I had DS2 at home partly because it was very important that the whole family should be together.

Midwives need more time too. I has a emcs at 6am was on the ward by 7. Sent dp home at 9 to shower and eat as he has been there 48 hours without either. I had my curtains closed as trying to get bf established. I didn't see another face until he arrived back at 11 and we both didn't see another face until 6pm despite me being on hourly obs! Poor midwives where rushed off their feet. I did feel a bit vulnerable and unsure as z first time mum and also my first stay in hospital I didn't know what to do with the baby or where I went for meals or anything. Dp would have been nice to have there but until there are all private rooms it won't happen.

Wouldn't it be great (although prob impractical) if everyone could have a private room, I had one with middle dc and it was bliss. 1st time i think there were about 6 of us on the ward and it was awful - loud and hot.

I tend to see people as people not man/woman so I view this as a privacy or quietness issue rather than one of 'inappropriateness' about men. As other posters have pointed out, women are sleeping/vulnerable/breast feeding/in pjs during daytime hours so I'm not sure why nighttime suddenly transforms men into 'inappropriate'.

Of course, this is all to do with feeling safe on a maternity ward. Gender is not the defining factor. Fathers should not have less access than e.g. lesbian partners and couples should be encouraged to see raising a baby as a joint venture from the very start.

As it happens, with DC2 the woman in the bed opposite was extremely dodgy and made me uneasy.

I think it's out of order on a ward. Private rooms fair enough if that's the policy. I don't think anyone should be staying the night in a ward whether they are a man or woman. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

I'd have hated that too, especially in a small 4-bed ward (I was on one too and it's a very small space).

There was a thread about this a while ago and there were some very strong opinions one way or the other, which was interesting.

I completely agree when women say that they felt abandoned or didn't have enough support overnight after a cs or a traumatic birth.

But having partners to stay overnight isn't the answer. Those wards aren't exactly big in the first place, doubling the number of people on the ward isn't helpful. And there will be many bed-bound, post-surgical women, it's not appropriate to have lots of other people, male or female, wandering around the ward at night. It's a safety issue in many ways. You just can't guarantee that every husband, partner or mother staying with a patient is going to only be nice and quiet and respectful of other patients.

As we ended up talking about on the other thread (I can't remember what it was called now), if postnatal wards are still putting women with babies in NICU and SCBU in the main wards - which many are, I was one of them - then in the hierarchy of problems that need to be sorted in a maternity unit, having partners staying with you overnight is well down the list.

Hadn't seen your post red, really hope it goes well for you.

I doubt I'd have really noticed tbh, certainly wouldn't have bothered me so long as he was quiet.

If he wasn't being a bother I would have been really pleased for the woman that the hospital were being flexible enough to allow her DP to support her at a difficult time.

I still think if is really important to have your partner their you need to fund a private room. Sorry but saying that the NH should provide - well that isnt going to happen. If its important to you then pay for it (it was important to us!).

People seem to think that their circumstances are the exceptions, we all have a reason why something is important to US. I dont book pre assigned seats on flights because actually its more important to me that the plane leaves on time etc. At a push if we couldnt all sit together as a family it wouldnt be the end of the world. According to many threads on MN's though it is for a lot of people - issue is that they dont want to fund the seat choice themselves.

On a flight a few years ago a women refused to sit down unless she was seated next to her 12 year old (who looked totally bored by the whole issue!). She was ranting that she was entitled. The crew said if she didnt sit down they would offload her lugguage. The rest of the passengers cheered and she did sit down in the end...

Addtobasket - I'm sorry but there is a whole world of difference between being seen in that state by another woman in the same situation to a man! I had no worries about being in that state infront of the other mums as they were all equally vulnerable. In this case there is a massive difference between a man and a woman.

I completely agree with pp about night time making you feel even more vulnerable. You don't have your own dh or visitors and ime you are pretty much left to it by the few staff on the ward.

And to the poster who said if you want privacy get a private room, that is ridiculous! The people who want to be exempt from the normal rules are the ones who should pay for a private room!

Kotth, why is it ridiculous?

If something isnt available to you, then you decide how important it is is to you or not. Just because the NHS is seen as 'free' doesnt mean it offers everything to everyone.

But he normal rules should allow for families to support each other for more than just a couple of hours a day in these modern times (or draconian times depending whose opinion it is).

I wonder how many women leave the hospital too soon after having a baby due to not wanting to be away from their partner at a time when they need them the most or due to not receiving enough support because the nurses and midwives are overstretched and can't fully meet everyone's needs but the partners who could fulfil that role have been sent home because it's 8pm?

Yes, in an ideal world the rules should allow for more support. Though as I said before, that's not enormously practical in hospitals that have wards designed to hold x amount of people, not twice that amount.

But the rules in hospitals at the moment are generally that there are visiting hours. I suppose only intensive care wards are different.

To me the real issue is women who are bed-bound, post-cs etc needing help looking after their newborn baby at night. The issue isn't women who don't want to be separated from their partner, purely because if you went in to hospital overnight for any other reason you wouldn't be allowed your partner there either.

More help and support is needed for women out of visiting hours and I'm sorry, but just letting relatives on the ward 24 hours a day is not the answer. That's just outsourcing, a knee-jerk fix. How many times on this forum to we read about women with husbands, partners, parents who are not the kind of people who are just going to sit there quietly all night and not cause a problem to anyone else?

Your partner might be lovely and wouldn't dream of causing a fuss or making other women uncomfortable. That doesn't mean that every other relative on the ward is like that. And hospitals and midwives can't judge that beforehand, can they?

Thurlow is right. If you want your partner there because you dont want to be by yourself. However if you are bed bound that's different but I do think with regard to the NHS that we need to work with what is available to us. Stating that thre should be tons of private rooms available at no notice is not the way to go.

Koothrapanties Wed 05-Mar-14 12:27:45
And to the poster who said if you want privacy get a private room, that is ridiculous! The people who want to be exempt from the normal rules are the ones who should pay for a private room!

This assumes that option is a) affordable b) available.

The principle of the NHS is that all patients should be treated in the same way at no extra cost, if they have a need for a particular treatment / support for the benefit of their health, regardless of their ability to pay.

There are many women, in all kinds of situations, for whom this may apply after birth.

If you are seriously suggesting that, because I want to be excempt from the normal rules, because of very genuine concerns about my health which have been deemed valid by a senior midwife, that I should pay for the privilege, you are very misguided. If I had to I would pay for a room, but the NHS does not work like that and given the nature of my reasoning being on health grounds, I should not have to pay for it. I don't have the option of going outside the NHS due to where I live and I can not afford to go to a private maternity hospital or wing, even if I did live near one.

Impatient judging by the number of posts on MN from women who discharge themselves early against medical advice for that very reason, I suspect its more than it should be. It seems to be unusual but not uncommon.

Red toothbrush- I'm glad your local NHS has listened to your genuine concerns, considered them and allowed some flexibility in the rules.

I went home 2 hours after the birth of my last child because I knew that my husband could support me better at home than the midwives could on the ward (based on previous experience). As it happens, I had excellent care from the community midwife who was out to check on me within an hour of returning home and then every day for the following 5 days. And my husband was at my beck and call and looked after the baby (except feeding) during the night whilst I got some much needed rest.