Man sleeping on ward

[heylottie]

I am on a 4 bed maternity ward, a small ward with beds divided by curtains. 5 day old dd currently in SCBU getting help with low blood sugar.

Its been awful but I can't fault the care and kindness of the nursing staff who are great

But

Last night a woman was admitted at 11pm, I didn't see her as curtains drawn. I was aware that someone was sat in the chair next to my curtain, ie two foot from my bed. I got up at 2am and went to the loo.

Turns out her husband was asleep on the chair.

I don't know if I am coming or going at moment, but I don't think this is appropriate is it? Woman was asleep. I mentioned to staff and they said oh he's waiting for his baby to settle in the incubator. Whilst I appreciate that, could he not have waited in the family tv room down the corridor?

Or am I being over sensitive? I just think this is a vulnerable enough time without this.

Women sometimes need women only spaces. I think it entirely appropriate that a postnatal ward at night is one of those spaces.

It's not the time or place for family time. It's the time and place for rest and recovery.

Anxiety, you say that in a dismissive way. The reality is that huge numbers of women in this country have been raped or sexually assaulted by men. They get their fears dismissed all the time. Because ultimately very few people care about their needs.

I do essentially see maternity wards as female spaces though. Mothers and babies. Cared for by midwives. I know there are a few male midwives now, but, meh.

Visitors are always restricted in hospital, for good reason.

I am a woman and am more relaxed in mixed company to be very honest. I do not like women only groups or spaces particularly.

My DC is male too.

FFS. Its not a fucking competition between anxiety and a history of sexual assault!!!

Sorry did not mean to be dismissive Grennie, however anxiety needs are difficult to meet and don't take into consideration anyone else's practical need. Realistically I think there needs to be prioritisation.

Worry totally accept the are some very shocking visitors!

I was in hospital a few years back seriously ill and it was actually a patient in the ward who withered on all night, there were four of us in the room, one very very I'll, one just out of surgery, me recovering but very ill and this woman who went on and on all night and kept us awake when the three of us really needed rest.

But that's to do with ward management, just because some people have no manners doesn't mean everyone should be excluded surely?

And I would very much disagree blistory, that's a very wrong viewpoint for far too many reasons to type out at this time of night.

I always preferred the consultants to the midwives. Less evangelical about avoiding medical intervention at all costs IME. Nearly missed a slot for a local anaesthetic, which I was eternally grateful for after being pumped full of cyntocin.

Yanbu

Totally inappropriate. Visiting hours are long enough (too long I think) but having a partner sleep in a ward overnight is not good.

To allow partners or other supporters stay would require a huge amount of resources. Where are they going to sleep without getting in everybody's way? Where are they going to go to the toilet, shower etc? There would need to be extra and separate facilities to ensure that patients were not stopped from using the toilet or having a shower because someone's partner was using the facilities.

How do you make it possible for a less confident person to object to the partner at the next bed? They may feel intimidated.

Also allowing partners to stay does risk wards turning into a bit of a doss house. How often would partners end up staying because it was a long journey home rather than because their partner needed care?

I agree with worry, extra people on the ward will just increase people not knowing how to act.

I don't think it is about the baby first and foremost either. a baby with extra needs is not going to be on a postnatal ward with midwives but somewhere with paediatric nurses. a healthy newborn baby will sleep the majority of the time and demand very little. no baby is going to know or remember if their father was there overnight!

totally different to an older child on a paediatric ward with parents staying. The parents while emotionally fragile are unlikely to be physically ill or partially dressed either so can be expected to put up with strangers around.

immediately after birth it is primarily about the mother, which in turn will enable the baby to get the best start too. by all means have visitors in the day but allow people to sleep in the relatively short lights out time overnight.

On balance I think the rule should be no male visitors overnight and single room where possible for those with a particular need.

Some random opinions on other points raised:

A hospital is a totally different place at night. I work in one days and nights and it feels so different. Dark, quiet, a bit spooky. By all means partners can visit in the day but night is for rest and sleep and peace as much as possible. As a midwife said up thread these overnight men are mostly ....sleeping! Hence the need for recliner chairs. They are not doing loads of helping out overnight.

On a general children's ward one parent stays with the child. DH and I have done our fair share there. But there is no comparison to a maternity ward where the women are patients and are vulnerable physically.

On any ward people are ill, immobile, in need of care or they wouldn't be there. I'm sure the elderly folk on the ortho ward post hip fracture would love their families there but it isn't allowed especially at night.

I value my DH as equal parent to the DC and I relied on him a lot post birth and still do now but he really didn't need to stay overnight. If we want more fathers involvement we should campaign for more low risk births at home or birthing centres where it is a genuine family environment. You can't make a hospital into that.

DC 1 taken to SCBU post birth, admitted for a week on postnatal ward, hated nearly every minute especially horrible lack of privacy in 6 bed bay. Curtains flung back with little warning exposing me naked from waist up attached to a double breast pump was a particular highlight.
I was in floods of tears when they took DD to SCBU of course but DH and I cried together, he went and sat with her and then he went home, slept and came back in the morning.
DC2 born in birth centre, home 6h later much better experience all round.

^It's within living memory that women who had lost babies were put onto wards with mothers and newborns.

That doesn't happen now because it's recognised as bad practice.^
Happened to me Rhonda 2 yr ago when one of our twins was stillborn and the other on Scbu. DH was allowed to stay the night they were born only because I was kept in the delivery suite in a private room. The next night I spent in the ward alone.

I have no problem with partners staying under exceptional circumstances like that, but it should only ever be in a private room, or in a bay with others in similar situations at a push. A curtain is not considered enough to maintain privacy and dignity on any other ward - hence the banning if mixed sex bays- so why should it be considered adequate on post natal wards?

As someone already said, a large number of people (not just men) simply don't know how to behave. They can be nosey (peering through gaps in the curtains), loud, encroaching in your space (it's a curtain not a brick wall).

There simply isn't provision for everyone's partner to stay. There's not enough toilets/showers for a start. Telling them to use facilities elsewhere won't work - you will always get one who is too lazy/selfish/thoughtless to go elsewhere, and if one starts they'll all be at it. Obviously this means a shortage of available toilets and showers for the women who need them.

Apart from lack of facilities, staff will be constantly dealing with the needs of the partners - wanting buzzed in and out of the ward at all hours, asking for cups of tea/blankets/pillows etc. All of this is removing care from those who need it. I agree staffing levels should be better - bleeding and breast feeding don't stop just because it's night time, so there should be more staff available. I just don't think allowing everyone's partners to stay over is the answer, unless there are extenuating circumstances, or private rooms for all.

iipswich that exactly what I've been saying but you said it better.

Not read whole thread but someone being allowed thier partner greatly annoyed me when I was on post natal ward. After a c section earlier in day I was moved to ward late at night at about 10 and my dh wasn't allowed to even walk into ward and was told to leave. Spent the night with a very young nurse looking after me who clearly knows nothing about babies and couldn't even change a nappy and I couldn't move so was given no help. The woman opposite I realised had her partner there in the bay and while she was up walking around looking after the baby (looked completely fine) he was on phone most the night to his mates. I was furious as I actually needed someone and this bloke was there all night for clearly no reason. I complained but I was ignored.

It's a long time since I had my DCs but I cannot think it could ever be acceptable to have partners on the post natal wards overnight.

It was bad enough during the day when they thought nothing of pulling back curtains drawn for privacy in search of a nurse, spare nappy, whatever.

At night it would have been very unsettling and quite frightening if you woke up to find a strange man gawping at you or helping himself to something from your locker.

And I'm just a woman who hasn't experienced sexual abuse, for someone who has it would be far, far worse.

If women have to have their partners with them then they should sit in the day room with them, not inflict them on other vulnerable women.

As said upthread, there are already hospitals where partners can stay all night. And those women who don't like it have no choice in the matter.

And I find that truly worrying Grennie and I wonder how we've reached a place where the last place of women's privacy and space and dignity has been given over to men.

Just the thought of using the bathroom after strange men when you are so sore and battered makes me want to weep, actually.

I agree with whoever said that post natal wards should be womens places and women's alone.
I do think that these " enlightened" hospitals will have a serious incident before long. I cannot imagine who thought this was a good idea, except overworked staff who are massively missing the point.

And what about women who's husbands/partners are abusive? If they have to go home at night, that's one night the woman gets away from them and could possibly if they are feeling strong enough speak out to a midwife etc.
If the partner is allowed to stay, that woman gets no choice.

I wonder how we've reached a place where the last place of women's privacy and space and dignity has been given over to men.

Maybe the woman's spaces were less about dignity and more about hiding them away....

Brilliant point lj8893 I touched on that earlier but you have articulated so much better - it does smack of control iin some cases, having the man there.

capsium - yes, also very good point but I think post natal wards can only ever be positive women only places and I think we really do lose them at our peril, for so many reasons.

I usually find them terrifying, but would anyone mind if I linked to this thread in the feminist bit to see if they have an opinion on the matter? I'm quite interested to see their perspective.

I wouldn't mind at all Kooth.

Hungermonkey I don't like enforced women only spaces, smacks of repression to me.