Orgasm during childbirth?! Tell me this is a lie!!

[kitegirl]

A friend of mine has a very competitive MIL. This friend has just given birth to her first, a nightmare labour with every possible intervention you could imagine (she's cool about it, bless her). Her MIL won't stop going on how amazing all her births were, saying how she just 'breathed the babies out' and how all her births were such ecstatic, spiritual experiences that she actually had an orgasm during each one!

Now I know a birth can be enjoyable, but an orgasm??? I've never heard this happening. Is this a case of one-upmanship? I told my friend that there's only one place to find out and that's Mumsnet... so what do you think?

rhubarb. i've obviously phrased it wrong and i'm sorry about that. but frankly, i don't get why on earth it is even vaguely debasing for a woman to want to be masturbated during labour if she feels that that is where she is at in terms of how she is feeling. it's your use of that word that makes me in turn feel angry.

while I might agree that some aspects of our contemporary culture are overly sexualised, I think it is a misreading of the situation to say that women who feel the urge to masturbate/do masturbate/feel some sort of sexual feelings in labour are being influenced by Nuts or Zoo culture.
There are many sound physiological/biological/hormonal and even evolutionary reasons for it. Most of which have beem explored on this thread. It is, imho, MUCH more likely that a woman who has this experience is following her instincts, either subconsciously, semi consciously or (if she is particularly attuned/open to it) perhaps consciously.

That is a personal opinion sophable. I did make that very clear.

Both childbirth and orgasm are transcendental experiences. If these things are similar, I still don't think they're the same thing.

fine. and it is my personal opinion that use of the word debasing demonstrates a level of discomfort with the area of sexuality. am totally willing to acknowlege that i might be wrong about that, but frankly it is an extremely pejorative word.

and MT a couple of hours ago you were calling someone that was brave enough to admit to having experienced this during labour a 'statistical anomaly' as if that has anything to do with anything and frankly if it wasn't such a nonsense thing to say it would be insulting. we are talking about individuals experiences of childbirth.

Well Rhubarb you have used some pretty strong and judgmental language - disturbing, freaky, demeaning for example - about women who choose to masturbate during labour. I think you might have expected that expressing opinions in such a strong fashion, and calling into question other's sexual lives/practices, might lead to a reaction in others?

Nice to see that you've now gone onto to someone else Sophable. Good luck to them.

And Cod coming in to call everyone freaky doesn't count does it? Course not! She's the Mumsnet Queen after all!

Soph, I was only hypothesizing that it might be a rare and unique thing. I wasn't insulting anyone.

i don't take cod remotely seriously on threads like these. she doesn't warrant an answer as her comments are flip. yours aren't.

i'm not picking on you, but you have expressed the most consistent and strong opinion about this. you're having a go at me for getting at you but it is you that is casting judgement not me. I'm reacting to that judgement.

i've obviously reallly wound you up and i'm sorry, but it is a subject that really excises me, it is as personal to me as it is to you.

I'm not sure what to say to that Rhubarb tbh.

Let me quote the OP on this then.

"Rhubarb you said that this is just another stick to beat women with

• this was exactly my point when I started the thread. My friend's MIL is implying that she is better at giving birth than her because, not only did she manage a natural birth without pain relief, she actually had an orgasm. I think the birth myth that is being propagated is that you can create a perfect, blissful birth and that if your birth is not like that, you have failed as a woman - it is your fault. Like us mothers need any more things to feel guilty about. "

At least I don't back away from an argument! I might have a different point of view to a lot of people on here, but I have been told that I have "issues" because of it! Well maybe I do, but quite frankly whether or not I have issues is no-one else's business but mine and I do think that putting that in an argument such as this is getting very personal and nasty.

I've read the whole thread and been fascinated and entertained in about equal measure - and what strikes me is that goalposts are shifting all the time. I don't think there's much left to fight about on this one anymore - you're all agreeing much more than your'e disagreeing now.

That's really NOT intended in patronaizing way; I've learnt a lot - just observing the way the argument's going.

Incidentally, I'm awed by the concept of orgasmic birth, but that's so far from any actual experience I've ever heard of and certainly my two times (before reading this), that I find it hard to imagine women feeling it's something they have to live up to. Though do also feel strongly about and react against sexist sexualization of women in all speres of life.

Spheres - duh.

Yes and no-one is suggesting that this should be used as a stick to beat oher women with, if it is not their choice.
But neither is it helpful to judge women who make other choices and describe their experience as demeaning, freaky etc. That kind of language might make a woman who had done those things feel guilty and even dirty?
I appreciate you are entitled to your opinion, and to express it. But the expression of opinions may have consequences, especially if expressed in strong terms like the ones you used, and about such a difficult and personal area as sex and.or childbirth.

Can someone quote me as saying "freaky" please? Cause as far as I'm aware only Cod has said that on this thread.

oh GOD rhubarb, if that is personal and nasty so is saying that someone (like me) that feels that sex is entirely appropriate if it comes up during childbirth and should be acted on if you feel like it is debasing childbirth. i'm not doing the whole 'you're being personal and nasty thing' and yet effectively you are being just as judgemental if not more so.

By Rhubarb on Friday, 9 June, 2006 2:08:09 PM
"I find masturbating during labour just a little disturbing and freaky."

FWIW Rhubarb I found that remark a little uncalled for.

sophable, it is not ok to tell someone who feels uncomfortable about sexual issues during childbirth that they have "issues" relating to sex. There were a lot of people on here who found this topic uncomfortable, MotherInferior, MonkeyTrousers etc - do they have issues about sex too? When I gave my opinion it was a general opinion about the topic and I told you my thoughts and feelings on it as I am entitled, you are entitled to respond to that, but I did not mention any poster's names, you and others did, you tried to make me feel that because I have this opinion I am therefore judgemental and have sexual issues.

I am sure you did not mean for that to be the outcome. But I did feel very 'jumped on' last night and I resent the fact that I let slip something I didn't want to come into the argument because it has no place in this argument. Whether or not I do have sexual issues has nothing to do with my thoughts on orgasms during childbirth.

I find it difficult to equate pain with pleasure, I am pretty sure that I am not alone in this. I found childbirth very painful and far from pleasurable, I am sure that I'm not alone in this either. I find it unsettling that some women get off on childbirth, I know that I am not alone in this thought. I find the 'bornfree' websites disturbing and I do think it puts unnecessary pressure on women to become sexual beings at a time when they probably feel as sexy as a dead horse. I also think it oversexualises women, there is more to us than just sex.

You may not agree with any of that, that is your prerogative. I'm not going to jump down your throat for disagreeing with me, but if you take the personal approach then I will.

However I can see that things got carried away and I'm prepared to forget that this argument ever happened if you are too!