Petrified of Birth

[Pegasus1234]

Hi,

Im new on here. Im 21 weeks+ and this is my first baby.

I met with my consultant today for the first time. I am consultant led because of fibroids and previous overactive bladder problems for which I was under the gynaecologist.

I explained that I was terrified of giving birth and wished to be considered for C section.

I am not too posh to push, just have an absolute deep rooted fear, it makes me physically sick, cant sleep due to anxiety etc. Having nightmares. I also have personal reasons I wont go into going back to my teens.

I felt totally indimidated there were 4 people in the room in total all staring at me, judging me.

The consultant basically didnt listen to me, and asked if a tour of the labour ward would help!!

Being a health professional myself I explained that I knew exactly what was involved. I have observed both births and c sections as part of my nurse training.

He said they dont perform sections for women without a medical reason.
I would have thought that fibroids, bladder weakness and absolute fear would be reasons.

Im not a particularly confident person, and make it difficult to have my voice heard sometimes. I just felt I was being dismissed as a silly woman who needed to go home .

I feel helpless, so upset and alone.

Can anyone offer any advice, or has been through a similar situation.

Thanks

Bluestocking thats a really interesting theory about convents. Not sure if I believe that the development of anesthesia and cs were driving forces fo the fall though. I rather think its more to do with the decrease in the influence of the church in general. I also suspect if the theory is right then, contraceptives would be more of an influence too. Fascinating none the less though.

Hmm, I am sure you're right. The waning influence of the church is presumably all tied up with things like the development of contraception, the so-called "sexual revolution" and the growing acceptance of single and childfree women as perfectly normal and not a bizarre aberration which is only OK if they are nuns.

That's a very intriguing idea about girls joining convents due to tokophobia. I probably would have done the same if I'd lived in those days! I guess it might have been the same for lesbians if the only other choice was having to marry a man. No wonder 'vocations' have fallen! (obviously there are other factors involved)

I wonder whether these days some of the militant 'child-free' women have tokophobia? I suspect this because I'm sorry to say I've been one of them, all the rhetoric about over-population and calling women 'breeders' (sorry ), underneath it all was the fact that I was absolutely terrified and unable to even contemplate the idea of giving birth and resented, even hated other women for having what I couldn't. I still actually feel a bit angry and upset when I see a pregnant lady or a mum with a little baby, it feels so unfair. This might be just me though...

That's what I used to do, try and convince myself that I didn't want children, I definitely found it upsetting seeing women with babies and thinking I'd never be able to have that because of my phobia. I just thought I'd find it worse in the long run to not have kids but being pregnant now is so hard for me. Every day feels like a battle!

Hi guys

Just thought I would keep you in the loop about the latest development. I posted off my consultants letter on Wednesday, he is on annual leave so prob wont read it til next Mon/Tue. Yesterday I received an appointment to meet up with the consultant anaesthetist to "discuss my options for labour" on 25.6.12.

So this is yet another stranger that I have to face and explain the whole thing over to, get all stressed again. Obviously this might be a good thing in my favour as he will be the guy who gives me my spinal if I am granted a ELCS. At the same time he will prob try to convince me to go down the labour with Epidural route.

I just really feel like I am having to go to battle with all this, and Im exhausted by it all.

Has anyone alse had to meet with an Anaesthetist? and what was the outcome?

Pegasus, I'm afraid I did have a meeting with an anaesthetist, and it was the worst (only bad) meeting I had with anyone during all of my ante-natal care. It was quite late on in pregnancy, I think - it was certainly well after I had been booked in for an ELCS, and it went a bit wrong because he wasn't briefed on WHY I was having the ELCS, which apparently was supposed to happen -

Anyway, he was bloody horrible. Looked at my notes, said 'why are you having a CS? you could be home the same day after a VB, go and look at the ward, lots of women do it - my wife's had three babies, all vaginally, it's much easier, what's your problem?'

I started crying (great) because there was no way on earth I could explain myself to this person, and it wasn't the meeting I expected, I thought he was just going to talk through the procedure and risks of a spinal or epidural.

Anyway. He put some leaflets on the table and started pointing at things in them - then thankfully the meeting was interrupted and a mw came and got me out (the mw who was supposed to have briefed him).

I sat in her room and cried some more and then calmed down - then this vile anaesthetist poked his head round the door and told the mw I was getting upset because he was explaining the risks of a spinal to me, and he had to do it, that was his job, he couldn't help it if I got upset.

Which was so not what had happened, the lying bastard. Luckily the mw sort of waved him out, apologised and said she would talk to him.

The consultant I saw, who was sympathetic and who had booked in my ELCS, went through the risks and process of anaesthesia with me later.

Obvs I am not wanting to scare you! or tell you what this meeting will be like. If you are having a meeting to discuss options 'during labour' then I don't quite know if they will be open to you saying you are asking for a CS.

Is there any chance you could ask for the anaesthetist's meeting to be moved later, for after you have met the consultant again?

PS remember anaesthetists are just anaesthetists - there's no point talking to them about psychological issues or fibroids etc - they have no power to 'give' you a CS, and your problems aren't their area of expertise.

Erm, I know this is probably going to sound mental, but what do you lot think about the idea of taking a tape recorder into any meeting.

The reason I asked is because DH's sister had breast cancer a couple of years ago (she's in remission now though thankfully) and she was advised at the time to record her meeting because due to the nature of the illness it was very common for patients to get very emotional and upset and not properly take in information they were being told.

It proved to be very true as she went to one appointment and was told she had a shadow on the scan which they were worried about. Distressed she rang DH and it came out as "They think its spread and its in an inoperable position". Obviously this wasn't the case at all, but she'd only heard the word 'terminal'.

My point is that, a) I don't think I would be in a reasonable state to take much in b) listening back later with a clear head might help to calm me and respond better to whats been said and understand it better c) if I do encounter any of these arses I have a leg to stand on.

Thoughts?

I will say what I said on the other thread to someone asking about a consultant visit.

Bring someone supportive with you.

If you can't arrange for someone to come right now, cancel and rearrange the appointment. I had a disastrous appointment with a consultant's registrar who didn't get my fears and was similar to fruitybread's experience with me weeping and feeling totally out of control while this person seemed agitated at and dismissive of my tearfulness.... I just shouldn't have gone alone. My dh would never have allowed it get as out of hand as it did.

I got what I wanted after a m/w and the actual consultant met with me, but it really knocked me for six.

I don't want to scare you either but I would strongly advise against putting yourself into that sort of vulnerable position alone.

I get so angry when I read about fruity's experience with anaesthetist and thunks with the consultant's registrar. Pegasus if it was me, would definitely change the app with anaesthetist until after you've seen consultant again. And definitely take someone with you. When I saw consultant, I actually wanted to speak to him alone, but my husband was in waiting room in case I needed him, which made me feel better.

I think the advice to bring someone supportive with you is very good. That person became my consultant mw, but other people will do. This sounds so awful but I do feel that a vulnerable, upset and possibly not very coherent woman, on her own, expressing fear about birth, is liable to be brushed off and sent home with a 'don't worry dearie' line.

I think having someone else there means you have another way of 'remembering' the meeting, and they will take you more seriously - esp if you bring a male partner.

God, this system is fucked, isn't it.

Btw - if you DO take your partner, they have to be aware and onside with your feelings and be prepared to assert themselves on your behalf. If you have a very shy or compliant partner, who isn't up to speed with the situation, they won't help. And it won't help your relationship.

Lol the system really is fucked.

Fruity you are so right about what would probably happen to a vulnerable and incoherent woman, I would imagine that they would be brushed off to be honest. I keep being a bore and banging on about it but I really think what got my consultant to help me was the fact that I'd written every single aspect of my phobia down, every detail. And why I wanted c/s etc. So I didn't have to vocalise any of it, just handed him the notes and he read them. He told me afterwards that it was very helpful that id done this, he said he didn't think I'd have been able to explain it properly otherwise which would have made it difficult for him to understand me and agree to my request.

Definitely good to have some moral support, and yeah I think having a male there would make the difference too. My husband was waiting outside for me but had I needed him he was there ready to back me up. He is used to being firm with people and taking no nonsense in his job so sure tha would have helped too!

Ariel, you were right to write it all down in your own words rather than having to face the ordeal of doing it verbally, face to face. That's prob the best and first piece of advice anyone in our position shoud think about (I'm typing that knowing tokophobics tend to be chronic internet and forum searchers, cos there's so little out there to help them).

Hey guys,

I thought I would update you on the latest developments. The consultant has replied today, I cant tell you how much my hands were shaking when opening the letter!

He acknowledges my detailed and explanatory letter, but notes my apt first with the anaesthetist on 25th June, he will be happy to see me after this to further discuss my case. In the meantime he has sent an urgent referral to the community MH team.

Not quite what I was hoping for but I suppose its what I expected.

I think what I will do is go along with everything he is offering me, so at least he cant turn around and say I dismissed all help and advice, at least it shows I am willing to co-operate with him. I dont think it would necessarily go in my favour if I start laying the law down-YET!!

I will meet with him one more time after seeing Mr Anaesthetist but if he continues to be awkward then Im changing my Consultant and wont be seeing him again.

Pegasus

FIBROIDS

I dont want to scare you but do you know the extent of your fibroids - where - how many etc.

A friend had 1st baby with " fibroids" she wanted a home birth and I think the fibroids were a reason she was told not to have one.

As she laboured they became a problem and she ended up with an emrgy cs and then once in the womb they found alot more fibroids.

It all turned out to be extremly serious but at the time - when pregnant it wasnt something anyone said could be so serious.

I havant read all posts - but perhaps getting some medical info on fibroids may help you too - how many women with them end up with emcs etc....as well as the other stuff about anxiety, and your other issues. Good luck, so many women on here in same predicament as you.

Ariel

I am seeing consultant on tuesday and I am going to write all my problems with VB down, partly because I am very nervous and mostly due to my young daughter being there!

Fruity - I also thought of taking in tape recorder!

I think once something in writing is handed over or something recorded - it also kind of makes it more conrete - they cant easily deny things after....it holds them to account a little more I think.

BTW Pegasus, I had a MW for second pregnancy and I wasnt happy with her at all, for lots of diff reasons, she was in no way the same league as my first MW. After one appointment, shaking on the verge of tears, I asked receptionists at docs, If i could change MW but keep my surgery. They were amazed at my request saying she was a matron of all mw's etc. I said I found that even more shocking considering her conduct, ie that didnt intimdate me.

Anyway, that MW suddenly became very nice - and helped me to change back to my original MW apologising for upsettting me. I realy dont think many people complain, and when they do - it can surpise people nad put a small rocket up thier backside....perhaps?

Sometimes - saying you are upset at way been spoken too - in a nice way - does make people feel for you and can help....

Pegasus1234, I would take the referral to a mental health team as a good thing at this point as it does suggest he is listening and taking the issue seriously rather than just being dismissive.

Elizaregina-Yes you are quite right to complain, and I think as a society in general we just dont complain enough, we just put up with things. Esp I think where HCPs are concerned, most folk just take what they say as gospel.

On my 20 week scan they could only see 1 fibroid - I have 2, that in itself is concerning as the baby could well be hiding the other, which could cause non progression of labour=EMCS (I put all this in my letter) Also, they commented that the 1 they could see had in fact grown to when it was first discovered back in Sept last year. The extra blood supply in pregnancy obviously feeding the fibroids.

Very interesting thread, and Pegasus you have my sympathies. I think the way you are going about getting the birth you want is admirable.

I have two cents on this. Would not have classified myself as birth-phobic, as frankly it did not occur to me. But certainly I was horrified / terrified at the idea of giving birth and had very intense reactions to eg. other people's birth stories, including throwing up; had nightmares throughout my pregnancy.

Dealt with it as best I could by totally throwing myself into the hypnobirthing / NCT psyche-up / yogabirthing stuff on one hand, to get my head into as good a place as possible in a kind of gung-ho way - which is exactly what I used to to before I went skydiving. Also, got a doula.

This all helped to get me to a point where I could try a VB. Was helped by the surprise factor of being 3/4 weeks early.

But my major point was that it was actually the factors I had not thought to consider, did not know about, could not know about - like the insane levels of hormones - that made it all actually fine. It was all the stuff I did not know, the subjective not the objective. Had a big feeling of 'Ohhhhh, so thaaat's what this is all about.'

This is not even making sense to me now actually so I better stop.

Maybe the sum total of all of this is me just wanting to say to you: you will get through this, you will be fine.

Pegasus I agree totally, go along with what your consultant is saying at present to show you are cooperative and willing to listen. But be firm about what you want as well! And by all means if your consultant is unhelpful, make sure you see another. But I do think it's good he's referred you to a mental health team. I really hope your appointments go well.

Eliza I hope it goes well for you too. I think writing it all down helps you a lot but it also helps the consultant, in fairness to them it is hard for them to make a diagnosis or any decisions if the patient is unable to speak! Because I had everything written down he didn't even need to ask me anything and just booked the ELCS after reading my notes! He kept them in my hospital file too so other hospital staff will be more aware of my issues.

Best of luck to you both x

I've read pixie's update.

Wish I hadn't. Part of me was starting to come round to thinking about NHS route and actually starting to tackle things with trip to GP in part thanks to you guys...

...Feeling back at square 1 and like private is only option. Except, we just don't have the money and I'm fed up as I can't find full time work atm. Which would help.

Just feel like I need a miracle or that I should start thinking 'no kids' all over again.

Hmm I saw it too, I wish I hadn't, not what I want to see at 22 weeks pregnant. Poor pixie. But think of Fruity too, it worked out for her. And so have I, to date. I'm just praying it goes to plan.

I've been thinking of asking to see my consultant again anyway and definitely will now. I need some more reassurance.

Hmm if it helps at all I'll keep updating with my experiences. As I have another positive from today- I had first app with health visitor (who apparently wanted to see me earlier than usual to see how I am) and she was also lovely like my midwife and consultant, she had been informed of my planned c/s and was kind and supportive. So far the NHS have been great with me. I'm just hoping so badly that baby stays in til I'm 39 weeks!

HmmThinkingAboutIt - I have now read Pixies post too, its just saddening and sickening at the way that poor girl has been treated. I too have agonised over the going private option. The only way I could do it is to get a bank loan, as we simply do not have the money. Many folk on here would think Im totally crazy but thats what i am prepared to do.
The problem is all the hidden costs you have to find, not just the birth package, its the aftercare if you are going private.

Dont give up! Talk to your GP first explain how you feel and get them on your side.

Ariel24 - I just feel sick and so scared about whats to come and my fate. I thank you and Fruity for your comments and support on here, without which I would feel so alone.

Ariel / Pegasus it would be great for you to keep updating. It would be much appreciated. I'm sorry if I've scared either of you two by drawing your attention to it; I hoped you'd seen it at the same time though... I wouldn't like to think of either of having the same problem.

I think whats rattled me more than anything, is the fact that I've seen so many 'happy endings' on here after people have gone through all the stress of being refused, I suppose I thought that knowing you'd got it signed off was the end of the political battle. You had to just worry about the nuts and bolts of it once you had got to that point and not worry about someone providing yet another hurdle.

Dunno. Its just 'got' to me. Stupid and silly I know.