Childbirth- inherently risky or inherently safe? Painful or not?

[WhatTheHellJustHappened]

My friend recently made the fatal mistake of saying in the company of some female colleagues that childbirth was the most painful, horrifying thing she had experienced. An argument ensued and majority of the ladies there believed it was wrong to call childbirth risky or painful. They said they pitied women who looked at such a beautiful and empowering experience in such a negative manner. They said that even sitting on a lawn was risky but sensible people didn't spend time fretting over it. My friend asked me later "When did it become a crime to call childbirth painful or risky? ".
While I personally agree that childbirth can be very empowering and rewarding, I also do agree that it is painful and potentially risky.

What are you views? Do you think childbirth is painful? Do you think it is inherently risky or safe?

Beautiful and empowering - yes I felt this after the event about the end result with a bundle of joy in my arms - it is a big achievment being pregnant for 9 months and bringing a child into the world and I was darned proud of myself.

But I certainly did NOT feel beautiful and empowered during labour, I was in pain, uncomfortable, hot then cold, sweaty, exhausted and OVER IT!!!!!

For me pregnancy and labour is the horrible journey I have to go through to get my baby. That is my reality and I would expect any other mum to respect my view.

BTW I did decline a sweep with DC2 as I hadn't really appreciated it with DC1. (I was 7 days overdue at the time) I went into labour the next day anyway, although in the meantime I'd been told I wouldn't be able to use water-pool anymore (as planned) as room was now being decorated Hopefully the two things weren't connected

Sure enough straight after the birth and before my shower I was taken along to see the work in progress and to wave to the decorators ! Thanks for that - that's really my priority just now, and yes, it was me you just heard kicking up all that fuss (as I gave birth) !

Conchita - It's just unbelievable isn't it. All the spiel they give you about soft music and birthing balls... I spent the first part of my labour (up to 6cm) in the ward canteen (totally on my own, at least it was private I suppose ), then in the bathroom in the delivery ward on my own.

Then they finally examined me - as I had reached 6cm I was allowed into a delivery room and they phoned DH.

Oh and the midwife who finally did examine me put on my notes that I was 'distressed' - er yeah, funny that. Being disbelieved, patronised, ignored and left in excruciating agony on your own might just get to you a bit after a while.

LaVolcan: "Hackmum - whoever was responsible for babies being put on their tummies the point still stands - it was a lay person who publicised the dangers."

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just answering your question.

Glendragon Oh and the midwife who finally did examine me put on my notes that I was 'distressed' - er yeah, funny that. Being disbelieved, patronised, ignored and left in excruciating agony on your own might just get to you a bit after a while.

That is AWFUL. Do you think some midwives see people in pain all day and just don't realise what they are going through or get hardened to it?

I don't understand the mindset.

glendragon yes our booking in was a tour of the lovely freestanding MLU, was v much encouraged to go for that as a healthy, low-risk mum. Was never really prepared for the quite strong possibility that I would go over my EDD by 12 days and that it would all change dramatically from there

Conchita What would have helped in your situation? Was it more realistic information?

What - once again you're indulging in character assassination. Nothing I've said suggests I don't believe in informed choice.

ushy if you mean the difference between the experience 'sold' to me and booking in and the reality, it's hard to say because I think there's a lot to be said for supposing that a healthy woman's pregnancy will be a straightforward one rather than focussing on what could go wrong and scaring her. Knowing that I was going to need an EMCS due to foetal distress would not have helped me and there wasn't really anything I could do to prepare for it.
However as 1 in 5 pregnancies are induced, I wonder if that is a bit of a different situation. Maybe I needed to be more prepared for the possibility of induction. OTOH, when I did realise post 40wks that I was likely to be induced I was in a terrible state. I would have been worse if I'd realised I would be left to labour on a ward. I don't know what the answer is.

Ushy - re midwives being hardened to the pain, yes I guess they must be. But in my case, it would have made an enormous difference if they had just examined me early on, said 'yes, it looks like you're starting to dilate, we'll keep an eye on you'. At least I would have felt reassured that both they and I knew what was happening.

But the ward midwife seemed convinced that it was too early, and as I wasn't actually screaming on the floor yet, that I couldn't be in labour. Therefore she didn't even bother to examine me, and neither did anyone else until I was 6cm and distressed.

That is the worst thing, that they seem to use outward distress as some sort of barometer. Until you're actually sobbing and screaming, you're just dismissed. Not really ideal since stress, pain and psychological trauma probably don't contribute to the nice, non-medicalised birth that they seem so keen on.

Also, I can understand that they don't want you in the delivery suites too early as there aren't enough of them, but it would be better if there was somewhere other than a full ward (or canteen ) to spend the early stages of labour, and preferably not alone.

'That is the worst thing, that they seem to use outward distress as some sort of barometer. Until you're actually sobbing and screaming, you're just dismissed.'
YY to that. I really feel I wasn't making enough of a 'fuss'. Perhaps that is my own fault as I had done hypnobirthing and was coping with the pain fairly well and I appreciate they don't want to be putting you through unnecessary internals, but it seems like using outward signs of pain doesn't work esp when you're on a ward trying not to upset other patients.

I had a similar problem with not being properly believed when I phoned to say I'd be coming in (though at least I was comfortably at home). They asked how far apart contractions were and I didn't really know, and neither did DH or DM (we'd all been more or less ignoring them for our different reasons !) I seem to remember they suggested I had some breakfast and phone back later

Anyway it ended up being a close run thing getting to the hospital on time for stage 2, and you could say DS was nearly born in the car park !

Conchita what a horrible experience - poor thing. I can't believe you were treated that way. I had induction with pessary and then the drip. I was 8 days overdue then my waters started leaking (didn't completely break, was the hindwaters they said) and I didn't go into labour naturally. Anyway the midwives were really nice to me stayed with me all the time (two of them a student and a qualified one) and gave me an epidural when I asked for one (which was five hours into a 12 hour labour). My friend who is pregnant is scared as she has to be induced due to gestational diabetes, I tell her my good induction story but she has heard so many bad ones she is getting scared now. It shows that it is just pot luck what kind of care you get which shouldn't be the case.

I was never really into the natural birth thing - knew I would want drugs!!

This was in a nhs hospital btw - can't afford private medical care.

I am aware that first-timers may be reading this thread so I feel like I need to say that although I haven't exaggerated my experience at all, I think it sounds worse in the telling than it actually felt at the time. Something sort of kicks in while you're going through it that helps you through. Or that was how it was for me, anyway.

juggling Anyway it ended up being a close run thing getting to the hospital on time for stage 2, and you could say DS was nearly born in the car park !

Did anyone say anything to you i.e. sorry? Just intrigued to know how they reacted.

I had a friend who actually gave birth in the road because of being told not to come in when she had been in labour for hours. While the baby was ok, it could have gone the other way.

Is this the way midwives deal with being understaffed - just by delaying people from coming in?

No, thanks for your thoughts Ushy - no-one said "sorry" - I just more or less collapsed into the midwife's arms on arrival and we all got on with the imminent arrival of DS (less than half hour after we arrived) if I remember rightly.

Luckily we all just got away with it. But, be prepared, second births can be much faster !

My DSis had her third baby in the bath at home before any HCPs arrived. Fortunately all was well there too. The ambulance arrived shortly after the birth.

Perhaps my sister and I should make more "fuss" But I think we're both lucky too in our birth experiences.

Ushy I have a friend who gave birth in a lay by. They shut the maternity ward at local hospital. They told her she had ages despite it being her 3rd.

She was watched and jeered at by a load of builders

"Is this the way midwives deal with being understaffed - just by delaying people from coming in?"

If previous MN threads are anything to go by, the answer is unfortunately yes. Midwives have posted saying that most hospitals just don't have facilities for women in the early stages of labour, which obviously can go on for hours / days. And that actually there is 'nothing they can do for them' anyway

What nobody seems to have discovered is a foolproof way of telling whether labour is imminent, or WILL actually go on for hours / days.

So it's a bit of a shit system, which once again women pay the price for by being fobbed off / having the hospital doors slammed in their faces when they are at their most vulnerable.

Re: induction - the national rate is 1 in 5 but some hospitals are as low as 13% and others as high as 27%.

You've got to ask why hospitals serving similar populations have such widely variant rates. Some hospitals have managed to really reduce their cs rates by restricting inductions to those for which there's a strong clinical indication.

More caseloading and DOMINO schemes would solve the problem of women going into hospital in early labour looking for support and reassurance.

My third labour was horrendously long and I felt so lucky to have my independent midwife at the end of the phone (at the end of the road actually - she's practically my neighbour!).

She just kept popping by to give me ideas for managing the pain, and giving me reassurance that I was making progress. It was so helpful.

But of course women in early labour are looking for support and reassurance !

At the moment women's experience in early labour is particularly random and haphazard.

I'm sure you appreciate this shagmund and I'm sure you're right that Domino style care would be a great way forward.

Juggling - I'm in London and its dreadful here. Hospitals are so busy that women in early labour, especially those being induced are just left to it.

ah well, i realise know that the stupidly long time they keep you waiting on the phone is cos they want to hear you yell with a contraction. many women labour silently all the way through - daft method!

my sister was told 'wait until waters go!'

they still hadn't gone 18 hours of heavy labour later...

phone triage came under some criticism in the Birthplace study. some areas still have system where you get a home pre-admission check (presumably day-time only).

early admission does come with negative effects, but better support than 'tee-hee, you've got another 24 hours of that (i didnt)' on the end of the phone would have been nice.