Childbirth- inherently risky or inherently safe? Painful or not?

[WhatTheHellJustHappened]

My friend recently made the fatal mistake of saying in the company of some female colleagues that childbirth was the most painful, horrifying thing she had experienced. An argument ensued and majority of the ladies there believed it was wrong to call childbirth risky or painful. They said they pitied women who looked at such a beautiful and empowering experience in such a negative manner. They said that even sitting on a lawn was risky but sensible people didn't spend time fretting over it. My friend asked me later "When did it become a crime to call childbirth painful or risky? ".
While I personally agree that childbirth can be very empowering and rewarding, I also do agree that it is painful and potentially risky.

What are you views? Do you think childbirth is painful? Do you think it is inherently risky or safe?

@dreamingbohemian
I wondered about the same as well. One the one hand they don't call it either risky or especially painful and on the other hand they demand a medal for getting through it. Kind of contradictory!

I would never argue with someone who said her birth was empowering but I don't like this recent trend where you aren't allowed to say you that hated being pregnant/giving birth.

P.S. What is whale music?

Funnily enough the only exposing her to 'horror' stories and think it's unfair and unrealistic for a mum to be to only focus on the negatives. I do believe in the self fulfilling prophesy factor. that my NCT class focussed on were those of CS. My ELCS experience was fantastic with so little in common with the garbage that woman spouted that I doubt she knew anyting about the process at all.
My NCT group "colleagues" however were great and some of my beat friends. Hardly any had intervention free births despite all the hype and do not judge me at all (not that I would care if they did.)

Exactly chub, luck I'm afraid.
Pure and simple.
No mind over matter in my view (appreciate not everyone's)
You either get lucky, or you don't.
Modern medicine improves your chances, if you are in the minority who are at risk of death/ child is at risk, but don't think any mind over matter can influence your outcome, only your feelings about it afterwards

I'd love to see how hypnobirthing would work for organ failure caused by severe pre eclampsia, or would it be allowed to acknowledge the contribution of skilled medical professionals and a good hospital at that point?

I still remember my first family planning appt. "Here are all the risks of these pills, yes they sound pretty bad but they're all far less risky than pregnancy!"

I've had an emcs and a vbac and would agree that while the vbac left me feeling pretty impressed with myself and the babies (it was twins), my comment to 2 friends one who'd tried to vb twice and failed and the other who'd just had emcs with twins after 3 vbs was "vb is slightly overrated as an experience".

Everyone's entitled to their opinions but women still die in childbirth so it's hardly risk free and I never achieved the feat of believing contractions to be sensations and not incredibly painful except for the ones which weren't

People have such dramatucally different eperiences of birth, and the same person can have drastically different birth experiences herself. It is worth staying very calm and open about the subject, and respecting all opinions and experiences as valid - I have learned this the hard way was a very real risk to me and my babies, both times, in circumstances that developed very quickly. I found that extremely frightening.

tht didnt make sense, missing sentence, sorry!

Oh bollocks to the self-fulfilling prophecy argument.

I have a dear friend who actually teaches hypnosis and holistic medicine, she still ended up with a crash section and then a failed VBAC.

I myself had a huge baby and a whacked pelvis, of course I had to go through 26 hours of excruciating pain before I could see a consultant because of course you want to give birth naturally if you can

@Ushy

I agree that withholding pain relief is cruel:( It makes my feminist blood boil to see women's pain being taken so lightly.

You'd be surprised at the kind of comments I've heard from people. Here are some-

"Childbirth is good pain. It's pain with a purpose. How can you compare it to other forms of pain like breaking a leg etc. which are unnatural?"

"Women have become intolerant of pain. Our ancestors delivered without any pain relief for centuries. Why can't we?"

"If childbirth was so risky and painful why would women do it more than once?How did we get to 7 billion then?"

I don't always agree with Dr Amy Tuteur, but I found this article of her's in The Times very interesting. It addresses attitudes towards childbirth pain and risks.

Notice how hateful the comments are and how most people are not willing to accept that childbirth is risky and painful.

ideas.time.com/2011/10/12/the-myths-of-natural-childbirth/

I fully support women who themselves choose natural birth but may be midwives and the medical profession should start listening to those of us that think that in the 21st century this kind of treatment is brutal and mysogynist.

Ushy Never a truer word.

OP

You are better off not knowing what whale music is. Seriously.

I reckon your body gives birth the way it was always destined to
The way you deal with it doesn't change that
It just changes your perception to it (and the amount of screaming possibly, more with hypno birthing- type training I expect....)

Great link, WhatTheHell

Here's the thing. We are not created by a benign creator*

We have been created by millions of years of evolution. A couple of things that define humans are our brains and our ability to walk upright.

We have enormous brains! = not easy for birth. Also the way our bodies have adapted to walk upright has resulted in a shorter and broader pelvis and a more oval opening in the bones surrounding the birth canal = also not ideal for birth (more here if you're interested The Price of Walking upright

Nature strikes a balance between efficiency and survival. Beetle mums for example make 1000s of baby beetles - most will die - nature doesn't care if they die! But it's a model which works, enough beetles survive to carry on the beetle population.

Cats too for example have many more kittens than will survive.

In humans, we not only traditionally lost several children along the way, nature has traded off losing several mothers in childbirth, for the evolutionary advantage of having humans who walk upright and have big brains. Nature sacrifices us mothers along the way. It's an efficient model for the continued survival and evolution of humans, but nature it quite prepared to kill / seriously injure many along the way - it doesn't care!

It amazes me when people talk about how birth "shouldn't hurt" as if nature is some kind of corporate body with health and safety rules which has designed birth to be so! Unfortunately birth can hurt, actually so much it can kill you. Luckily most people reading this are fortunate enough to have access to modern medicine so don't have to face this reality. However even in a modern hospital you can have a birth that is so painful it feels like someone chopping your leg off with a blunt knife (epidural didn't work for me, very big baby).

Of course it's risky. Anyone who think it isn't is very naive indeed.

*not even many of you who believe in a god / gods, have a benign creator, do you? Suffering is part of the deal!

""Women have become intolerant of pain. Our ancestors delivered without any pain relief for centuries. Why can't we?""

Yes that's the kind of stupid statement that really annoys me too.

Many of our ancestors delivered babies in screaming agony and died. I'd rather not, thanks.

I have 2 DC but have never experienced 'childbirth', I had to wait until DC2 to even experience a contraction and will probably not experience another if I decide to have a DC3.

DC1 was born at 34wks via EMCS as I had severe PET, never went into labour just straight to theatres.

DC2, aimed for VBAC so had first-time experience of contractions but ended up with another EMCS as labour was not progressing and had meconium stained waters. Consultant advised ELCS if I have DC3.

So yeah, maybe to the natural birthing squad, maybe I'm not someone who should really have kids... if nature had its way I would have copped it first time round! Thank god for modern medicine.

I find it interesting that in the Old Testament God tells Eve that she - and all women - will suffer in childbirth after she eats the fruit of knowledge.

That's actually truer than it may seem at first glance.

Because evolution has traded big brains in humans for many mother's lives - also bringing about potentially excruciating pain in labour - women can be said to be suffering as a direct result of our ability to know stuff.

(I should say I'm an atheist by the way, not trying prove bible stories are true! I just find it interesting).

3leftfeet- absolutely, anyone who believes that statement is stark raving bonkers.
Sure the ancestors would be a bit

""Women have become intolerant of pain. Our ancestors delivered without any pain relief for centuries. Why can't we?""

Bloody hilarious!! Our ancestors delivered without pain relief because there wasn't any They also endured operations etc without too.

Butterfingerz I have had two ELCS by choice so have never had a contraction - as far as I'm concerned I gave birth in m preferred way - no need to justify it.

Mine was painless. The begging for an epidural was just for effect :o
For he record mine was straightforward and manageable pain but id never call it pain free!

Childbirth for humans is inherently quite risky- our large brain size has meant that babies are born at an earlier stage of development than other apes, when they can still just fit through the pelvis, but the trade-off is that if the slightest thing is out of place birth can go drastically wrong. I think that people who think that birth is easy and straightforward are rather ignoring the huge numbers of women and babies worldwide who end up dead or injured by their nice natural unassisted births. I used to be one of those people, but I think I have learned enough along the way to understand better that it can be a very difficult thing for some women and/or some births.

Sorry, to reiterate.....
Luck,luck.luck.luck,luck,luck,luck,luck
Good if you can get it

Is this whale music?
Enjoy while contracting-