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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

This article has me fuming....thoughts?

342 replies

PrincessZ · 22/08/2011 22:06

I just read this article and I am so shocked at how they can categorically ban cesarean sections!
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2028443/Hospitals-ban-pregnant-women-having-c-sections-cost-cutting-move.html?ITO=google_news_rss_feed

I'm pregnant and I was going to ask for a cesarean. Reading this article has made me lose all hope.

OP posts:
northernruth · 24/08/2011 09:17

Tips to avoiding tearing - perineal massage. Not sure if it's that that stretched my fanjo or years of abuse from the men of West Yorkshire but I have to say a 1cm cut was a great result for my birth!

northernruth · 24/08/2011 09:18

Oh and ditto to taking more mat leave - 3 months and you'll spend 6 weeks of it sat on the sofa with a mewling newborn!!!!! (and that's whether you have a cs or vb)

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 24/08/2011 09:27

ha! She does advocate lots of sex which is a tip i was happy with first time round (though is a bit trickier with a toddler).

PenguinArmy · 24/08/2011 09:28

I was doing well reading the thread, but there is no way the figure of 25% for a 4th degree tear for first time mothers and VB is correct.

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 24/08/2011 09:31

i agree penguin.

northernruth · 24/08/2011 09:35

I did question that stat but the evidence has not been forthcoming

hazeyjane · 24/08/2011 09:38

I wondered if anyone had corrected that. I believe the figure is more like - 3% of women suffer 3rd and 4th degree tears. However, there was an article in the guardian a while ago (that mentioned Mumsnet) that said there was a belief that about 25% of women went onto suffer problems as a result of birth injuries.

Primafacie · 24/08/2011 09:42

Yes, that strikes me as crazy too! The overall figures (ie just not or first time births) are that 90% of women have some graze or tear, and 9% of those will be third or fourth degree.

Wormshuffler · 24/08/2011 09:45

Loving your comments spudulika especially the one about being surrounded by the cast of Jeremy Kyle for 3 days Grin This is what I am dreading about My upcoming ELCS after 2 EMCS.
My opinion (for what it's worth, probably nothing) I dearly wish I had been able to deliver naturally, and tried for a VBAC with DC2.
I hate my overhang,
I hate the feeling of failure,
I hate that I am now limited in the number of children I have,
I hate that I will be stuck in hospital barely able to move in a noisy ward eating shit food and missing my other DC's for 3 days,
I hate that I was so sick after the anesthetics that I remained in recovery for 24 hours not able to even sit up to vomit,
I hate that I now have lazy bowels and only poo every 3 to 4 days,
I hate that I got a heamatoma (sp) which burst making my scared my womb was actually going to fall out of my wound..............

but I did get 2 healthy children at the end of it and lived.

I don't like your reasons for wanting a CS and frankly having children is all about making sacrifices, your body being the first of them, but if all the above is a better alternative to you than the possibility of tearing during labour, and you will fund it yourself then go for it!

Flossish · 24/08/2011 09:52

Princess, you come across as pampered for several reasons, not least because you say the community team are 'refusing' to see you, when in actual fact it is a policy, not a personal slight. You refer to posters as tiresome, and generally seem to believe you know better than the many posters who have actually gone through the experience.

I'm an NHS professional and will defend the healthcare we receive in this country very strongly. Free healthcare to all at the point off need.

Did I have a tough birth experience previously? Funny you should ask that. A friend is in being induced now, she seems to be having a tough time. I have had two amazing birth experiences. I've been pondering prior to this thread what would happen if I had to have a cs with this my third and last pg and I would feel I think, bereft. On some level, aside from the pain etc I enjoy giving birth. The idea of never having another baby and labour left me feeling very sad.

The only time I would say I'd suffered from neglect was when my child was ill as a baby and again as a toddler. Certainly not during the birthing process.

I also note you haven't referenced your authors as you said you would, which, along with your provocative language makes me wonder if others who believe you not to be genuine are correct.

If not, well, wisdom comes from the wisdom of others. You would do well rather than decide on perhaps, medicalised papers written by medical practitioners who only usually see complicated births, that a C section is certainly the route for you, to seek opinions from those who have actually experienced both sides and take a more holistic view of the situation.

southmum · 24/08/2011 09:59

arrrgh why oh why did I read this thread? Im hoping for an ELCS this time due to a very traumatic VB (epi resited 3 times and then a forth when I went into surgery for a 3rd bordering 4th degree tear, could feel them starting to operate so had to have a spinal in the end).

Ive read some of the posts here and am hoping some of you are exagerrating about CS complications, please tell me you are. Im shitting myself now, I know I cant do a VB again I cant risk tearing that badly and having continence ishoos later on, am also worried that I'll be so paranoid abut not tearing that I wont push hard enough and will have to have a EMCS anyway....ohfuckshitshitshit Sad

Sorry for the waffle.......as you were.....

CheerfulYank · 24/08/2011 10:07

What is gas and air?

wonderstuff · 24/08/2011 10:12

Its good CheerfulYank Smile
]
s

Flossish · 24/08/2011 10:12

Cheerful, you may know it as entonox?

Southmum, you have valid reasons for hoping for a cs - you're care providers should be able to either authorise this is its agreed it is required or reassure you with good evidence about why the same wouldn't occur. Try not to worry, I'm sure it will all be fine.

CheerfulYank · 24/08/2011 10:19

No...pretty sure we only have it at the dentist, and even then not often? Confused

PenguinArmy · 24/08/2011 10:19

Most places don't have it in the US yank I believe a few states have started to reintroduce it in maternity serives

CheerfulYank · 24/08/2011 10:23

Yeah, I just saw an article that said it may be coming back into use. Always nice to have options! :)

spudulika · 24/08/2011 10:30

"However, there are plenty of women who by the time they are 2 cm dilated are in massive pain"

Yes - it does happen. But RARELY.

Most people I know actually enjoy this part of their labour if it doesn't go on for a ridiculous length of time. They certainly don't find it intolerable.

As for evidence:
randomised

No evidence of reduction in c/s rates. Interesting that the duration of the first stage of labour was shorter in the early epidural group.

My thoughts on this were: all the women in the study had opted for an elective epidural, which suggests that they had expectations that they would find the pain of labour difficult to manage. In a group of women with low confidence of their ability to cope with labour, I imagine the hours of unmedicated early labour they experienced may well have been unpleasant and stressful, which might result in a longer and more drawn out labour. I'd also like to know whether the authors controlled for the impact of continuous care, which is proven to shorten the duration of labour. Those in the early intervention group would have had one to one care at this point in their labour. The others may well have been left to labour alone.

Re: c/s rates in Canada - my understanding is that they are pretty much identical to ours now. I can't comment on instrumental rates as I have no record of these outside the UK.

CeliaDeBohun · 24/08/2011 10:45

southmum I had an ELCS and it was absolutely fine. The pain afterwards really wasn't that bad (like moderate period pains) and didn't last for more than a few days - I only needed normal strength painkillers. I was able to hold my baby straight away and had no problems breastfeeding. Ditto with bonding immediately.

The wound healed quickly, with no infection. I followed the guidelines about taking it easy with regards to housework etc for several weeks afterwards but, to be honest, I felt pretty much back to normal within a month or so. Um... DP and I had sex a week after the birth Blush We took things very gently, obviously.

As for the post c.section belly issue, my tummy does still protrude quite a bit unless i hold it in but then, I'm a lazy cow who never exercises so not sure I'm representative there. And I'm sure that if I actually bothered to do some exercise and was stricter about my diet, it would look 100 times better.

Good luck with getting your ELCS approved Smile. Might be an idea to keep quiet about it in real life, to try to avoid judgmental concerned people piling on the peer pressure giving you "helpful"'advice about why you really should try for a VB Hmm

tethersend · 24/08/2011 11:21

I think it's quite inflammatory to imply that women who have had ELCS have missed out on a life-changing experience; I'm not sure that this is what you meant to do, spudulika and Moonface, but the implication was there whether intentional or not.

"I think it's shit that despite it being safer than ever women are still scared shitless by society and disempowered to experience labour as a right of passage."

Having a baby remains one of the biggest life changing experiences/rite of passage no matter how it comes out; we associate that with our own birth experiences, naturally. To imply that the crucial or life changing element is in the labour process is a little closed-minded, IMO.

There are lots of interesting discussions an POV on the thread, and I am certainly learning a great deal.

However, I don't feel that I need to be pitied for having missed out on labour.

I am very proud of myself for pushing for a scan at 37 weeks, finding out my DD was breech and having the birth I wanted which had the added bonus of being the lowest risk option (I had wanted an ELCS even if she hadn't been breech). It was an empowering process for me. It was not borne of fear.

I think the assumption that all women who opt, or would opt for an ELCS are scared of VB or are misinformed is a dangerous one.

Wormshuffler · 24/08/2011 11:34

I do feel like I have missed out though tethersend especially to have done the labour part, (27 hours DD and 18 hours DS) and then still failed to have the baby the way nature intended. Whether people pity me or not is irrelevant.

RogerMelly · 24/08/2011 11:38

I ahve had three and don't understand why someone would choose to have one. I experienced labour with my first and she got stuck in the birth canal and then had two electives and I can't really say it was particually pleasant. I don't feel like I have missed out ona life changing experience because they weren't born vaginally though -how odd

Cheria · 24/08/2011 12:04

I think neither way of getting a baby out is pleasant. I don't feel I have missed out on anything other than lots of stitches and pain down there, even though I had stitches and pain above.

I have no desire to make another attempt at pushing a baby out. ELCS all the way for me.

Some of us aren't cut out for natural childbirth. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and doesn't make us any less of a mother.

tethersend · 24/08/2011 12:22

Wormshuffler, I was referring specifically to people who has an ELCS; that is to say that they made a choice, or would have made a choice (finances permitting) to have a caesarean. I'm guessing that as you had an EMCS, a caesarean was not your chosen method of delivery, so I appreciate that you feel that you've missed out.

If I had given birth to DD the way nature intended, it could quite easily have ended up very badly indeed. Just because nature intends it, doesn't make it automatically the most desirable option. I do not feel like I've missed out on anything. In fact, I feel very lucky.

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