Ban Home Births!

[NHSsupporter]

This should be a topic that will get the "rights for women" brigade fired up!

I have listened for several years to a close friend of mine who is an NHS Community Midwife, and have decided that we should bite the bullet and BAN "NHS sponsored home births".

I make this suggestion based on, what I believe to be, several compelling arguments:

1. Child safety

2. NHS Budget

3. Parent welfare

4. In my friends experience between 33%-50% of all home births at 2 hospitals she has worked at in 2 very different areas, seem to end up in difficulties ultimately requiring the attendance of paramedics, an ambulance, and subsequent blue-light evacuation to hospital. Surely it would be better for the unborn child's safety and welfare for it to start being born in a controlled environment, where all of the necessary professionals are already at hand should the need arise, rather than having to be born in an emergency and potentially rushed situation. Surely the welfare of the unborn child should be placed ahead of a so-called "pleasant birthing experience" for the new mother.

5. The use of emergency ambulance resources in 33%-50% of cases and Community Midwives must have an additional financial implication, which is significantly greater than parents, in a controlled way, simply entering the hospital and giving birth in a building, which already exists and is already being paid for, with staff present whose salaries are also part of the fixed costs of running the hospital. In this time of austerity surely this would be a sensible cost-saving exercise.

6. Parent physical and mental welfare would be significantly improved if emergency procedures could be avoided. I would go as far as to say, that I bet that one or more of the annual maternal deaths could be avoided.

I repeat, surely the welfare of the unborn child should be placed ahead of a so-called "pleasant birthing experience" for the new mother.

Comments welcomed?!

It is very democratic here - you get to express your bullshit opinion and we get to critique it with varying degrees of eloquence.

If you don't want a HB, don't have one.

Shut the door on your way out now, there's a dear.

Very democratic wanting to take away the choice of where to give birth just because you don't happen to agree with it. What's the demographic got to do with it, surely in a democracy everyone has a right to their opinion, including you? But it seems to me a healthy debate is the last thing on your mind.

NHS - yes you have some opinions. They're not particularly clever.

Being prepared to 'sling some mud' in return for comments on your 'provocative' OP is something we are wearily used to on here too, and says entirely more about you than us.

Calling us chavs for swearing on here shows very little of what you know about the demographic and more so, the style of Mumsnet.

Now bore off.

OP - As a first time mother planning a homebirth I would love to engage in a healthy, intelligent and informative debate about the merits of HB over hospital.

I'd be really interested in seeing the research that you are no doubt basing your arguments upon. I'm assuming that you wouldn't make such inflammatory comments without at least having a quick read of the NHS Evidence site or something?

Are the 35-50% you quoted official statistics from your friend's catchment area or her estimate, which, as an intelligent person, you would know, are totally un-transferable to the the country as a whole or even other parts of the same city.

Could you define "emergency situations" you mention?

You may be interested to read this OP. (It's a US study so not fully transferable but could be used to give an idea of cost discrepancies.

And this which states women having planned home births were significantly less likely to have 3rd degree tears, infection, placenta retention etc

kisses *Boff

Maybe she has taken me literally. I am almost disappointed although, it's rather mean to have a go, shooting goldfish in a barrel and all that.

Thank you for the references NurseSunshine.
Oh dear - clearly still biting BoffinMum - bet your students never get the last word either!!

Could you answer my questions?

my dear, you have just awakened the ayatollahs of natural birthing...

as you might have noticed from the freakish and deeply weird reactions to your post, you might now understand why those people are sometimes referred to as "the Talibans of childbirth"....
they do not tollerate a different opinion and in most cases can only react with insults.

watch out cause they might come and get you !!! They truly scare me...!

I agree with you, in my humble opinion, by applying common sense and hearing stories around me.... homebirths are NOT safe.

I believe the reason why mother and child do not die much of childbirth anymore, it's because we give birth in hospitals !!! Any doctor would confirm this.

There are definitely amazing stories of great homebirths but the problem is that childbirth is a unknown beast.... it can be the sweetest experience in the world but it can be the most tragic...
given that it is impossible to foresee which one you will fit in, I still believe that it is safer for everyone to be somewhere where they can sort out any potential mess...

but now i'll be slaughtered and strangled by the fairy lights, squashed by the pastel color birthing balls and aromatic candles, massacred the fresh flowers and the homeopatic remedies ....

I'd delete my account if I was you....

I fail to see how requesting back up of ridiculous claims is "freakish" or "weird". Sensible, did you mean?

Have you ever spoken to a doctor or midwife about this? Or are you assuming they would confirm this because it's what you want to believe and are too closed minded to consider another view?

How odd that you would accuse homebirth advocates of being intolerant of opposing views and yet you clearly are intolerant of those who believe homebirths are a viable and safe option in many cases. After, I hasten to add, weighing up the EVIDENCE.

Whatever, I'm off to play with my birthing balls

how incredibly rude and offensive samarcanda, to compare natural birth advocates to terrorists

if you don't agree with homebirths, that is entirely your prerogative

calling people hysterical and stupid names for being on the opposite viewpoint does you no favours

the OP is not interested in a debate ,neitehr are you

just feeling smug and right and that anyone who disagrees with you is deluded

I have read a lot of research wrt to homebirth, my conclusion is that for low risk normal pregnancy it is a valid safe option. for what might be termed high risk , it can still be valid and safe

if your own reading and research has led you to the opposite, that is your conclusion and opinion and I am sure no amount of name calling would change that

however, I respect the fact you think differently and would not bring this to the nasty and insulting level you and the OP have dragged this down to

samarcanda - have you experienced the delights of the nhs yet? I personally am automatically high risk so have never had the HB option but can see the attractions if you're low risk versus the sub-standard care you will receive in the majority of hospitals. Yes there is a risk and it is the same one if not more than between some "birthing centres" e.g. st johns and st elizabeth which will charge you £10,000 for the pleasure but do not have emergency facilities on site, and choosing to go for a hospital with full resources.

Surely if HBs are to be banned on safety grounds so should birthing centres unattached to hospitals with full resources?

swigs broon<

indeed boff what did you do your phd in?

and should we call you DrBoff ?

Actually, the reason fewer women die is nothing to do with where they are giving birth, it's actually to do with the provision of decent ante-natal care. Look at the US for an example of somewhere with an increasing infant mortality rate, where large numbers of poorer women turn up at hospital having had no ante-natal care whatsoever, yet give birth in an institutionalised setting, to no avail from a healthcare point of view. This is because it's already too late for them to be looked after properly, and they are in disaster management territory by then. The reason for this is that US hospitals charge for ante-natal care but are obliged to let women in labour be admitted for free, so mothers without insurance go down this route. And babies die as a result, even though they are born in hospital.

The OP's time and energies (and those of her ill-informed midwife friend) would therefore be much better spent encouraging all women to attend ante-natal clinics in an organised and timely manner, as failing to do contributes more to infant mortality statistics than the actual venue of birth. But hey, why let the data get in the way of a good rant, OP?

It's a social science PhD, by the way, which means I am pretty good with healthcare stats and the life ...

course I AM the one who's very rude and smug...
these are just a sample of the answers NHSsupporter got to her (quite normally toned) post (and i stopped at page 2):

how's that for dialectic ?

There are so many risks associated with giving birth in hospital that those who do not work in maternity may not appreciate. Many of the problems in labour and delivery are caused by intervention which by definition would not happen at home.
Unfortunately hospitals cannot always 'sort out the mess' samarcanda and I am unfortunately painfully aware of the babies (and sometimes mothers) who die or who have tragic outcomes despite the fact that they are in a hospital.
Of course home birth is not a safe option for everyone but that does not mean they should be banned! However, I suspect you don't actually have any interest in the replies to this thread other than that it has filled a gap in your previously boring day!

Wouldn't be surprised if it is the Daily Fail or such like baiting us to show what MN are 'really like' and that we attack anyone who comes on the site wit a 'valid' opinion.

Do us all a favour and fuck off!

tonythetyger

on this I agree with you .. some hospital are actually worse than home births... but then we should fight for better healthcare... birth centers should be within the hospital ground and that's it

sadly a low risk pregnancy does not automatically mean an easy birth... the reality is that there is no way of knowing in advance...

for everyone quoting studies.... you must be aware that you can find academic trials proving everything and the opposite of everything.

This study just came out that scientists got monkeys to pay for sex... does that mean you can find brothels in monkeys communities.... no.... it means somebody got a fancy research grant.....

also for whoever associates talibas and ayatollah with terrorists.... go read what those are... far from being terrorists, they are religious extremists....

Samarcanda- pretty sure I remember reading your thread about re-locating to the UK very recently, where you (ungratefully) inferred you'd like to avoid having your impending baby within NHS care at all costs?!

So are you here to support NHSsupporter or stick the boot in to others for the sake of it?

sometimes you have to look at the quality of research samarcanda rather than the fact that it exists. Is it peer reviewed? What is the size of the sample? Who has conducted it and who paid for it for example. If you then feel the research is good quality then you are justified in using it to back up your argument. The Cochrane Database is a useful tool in sifting research if you fancy a look at relevant info on many scientific matters.

Op, educate yourself and then find some high quality evidence to back up your claims.