Ban Home Births!

[NHSsupporter]

This should be a topic that will get the "rights for women" brigade fired up!

I have listened for several years to a close friend of mine who is an NHS Community Midwife, and have decided that we should bite the bullet and BAN "NHS sponsored home births".

I make this suggestion based on, what I believe to be, several compelling arguments:

1. Child safety

2. NHS Budget

3. Parent welfare

4. In my friends experience between 33%-50% of all home births at 2 hospitals she has worked at in 2 very different areas, seem to end up in difficulties ultimately requiring the attendance of paramedics, an ambulance, and subsequent blue-light evacuation to hospital. Surely it would be better for the unborn child's safety and welfare for it to start being born in a controlled environment, where all of the necessary professionals are already at hand should the need arise, rather than having to be born in an emergency and potentially rushed situation. Surely the welfare of the unborn child should be placed ahead of a so-called "pleasant birthing experience" for the new mother.

5. The use of emergency ambulance resources in 33%-50% of cases and Community Midwives must have an additional financial implication, which is significantly greater than parents, in a controlled way, simply entering the hospital and giving birth in a building, which already exists and is already being paid for, with staff present whose salaries are also part of the fixed costs of running the hospital. In this time of austerity surely this would be a sensible cost-saving exercise.

6. Parent physical and mental welfare would be significantly improved if emergency procedures could be avoided. I would go as far as to say, that I bet that one or more of the annual maternal deaths could be avoided.

I repeat, surely the welfare of the unborn child should be placed ahead of a so-called "pleasant birthing experience" for the new mother.

Comments welcomed?!

I can't even be bothered to engage. Please go back to wherever you cam from.

Alternatively, you could always change your name to 'onyourbikesupporter' and start an inflammatory thread saying we should ban support for the unemployed because all they need to do is move to where the job is.

Or change to absentdaddiesrus and post that we should ban all child maintainence payments to avoid any notion of 'pleasant mothering experience'

1. Hb is cheaper (£800 vs £950 for bog standard hospital vs 1400 hospital & epidural vs £2200 C/section)
2. as safe if not safer
3. the transfer rate in general is 60% for first timers, 10% for subsequent. usually for pain relief.

Successful trolling doesn't usually start with a statement of intent to troll, BTW.

Costs less. Just as safe. And how fucking dare you question whether I would ever EVER put myself and my needs above that of my child. You clearly don't have kids as otherwise you wouldn't make such stupid fucking troll-like posts.

Now be a love and fuck the fuck off. HTH.

SIGH

I have had two home births.

From the start of labour (first contractions) they both took about 12 hours. I had two midwives present for about 2 and half of these hours (each birth).

I used my own electricity, heating, towels, sheets, bed, tea and toast.

I had by babies, the midwives went home within about half an hour 45 mins.

Compared to my hospital births. I was in for two days with my first, a day with my second. I was fed, took drugs (legal obviously) had about 6 midwives for my first - 3 for my second, used NHS heat, sheets, beds, electric etc.

Now please explain to me how my hbs were more expensive than my hospital ones? If you bother to come back.

'rights for women brigade' wot u mean like Emiline Pankhurst?

Twat.

You know, I wonder how women managed to successfully give birth for thousands of years before hospitals were invented?

sooo much cheaper all round if we just banned women's rights
shurely?

What BooBooGlass said.

VivaLeBeaver Completely agree, MW's who don't like HB's are also far more likely to refer to hospital when other MW's would cope quite competently.

BoffinMum, same, current MW has recommended HB. I notice she puts her money where her mouth is and had been out a 3am the night before my appt delivering. She doesn't want a car park birth for me either.

Current MW is very pro HB, she hates that other MW's who are not pro HB have to be on call for HB's...if your not confident at/or hate doing something it's human nature to try and get out of it. Perhaps your MW should think about re-training at something else?

Interesting set of responses!

I am not a midwife myself and my friend is not anti home births. She is actually a very competent Community Midwife and is very pro home birth.
The comments I make are purely my own thoughts having had 3 children myself, so I do talk from experience.
I would point out that the published costing arguments are flawed as the calculations never correctly disallow for hospital fixed costs.

That said, it is a shame that my well meant posting (albeit perhaps deliberately provocative) has created such a wave of clearly common and vulgar responses, rather than starting a healthy debate, which would add to and enhance the education of first-time mums.

Thank you Jimbob for your balanced response. It is a shame that many of the other replies have clearly highlighted the poor and common level of Mumsnet contributors.

And, if some of the extremely vulgar responses are from people who are actually NHS staff and even midwives themselves, then god help the youth of tomorrow!

I had a hospital birth (not a c-section) attended by 3 midwives, 4-5 obstetric consultants, anaesthetist and paediatrician plus a student midwife who was a qualified nurse. I was in hospital for 6 days under the care of dozens of maternity nurses, midwives, breastfeeding consultant, paediatrician. I don't think a hospital birth is cheaper.

"Fixed costs" is a red herring - costs are based on demand.

HBs make up 2-4% of overall births.

look, you started a deliberately provocative and rude OP , basically designed to start a bun fight

if you want to talk abotu the pros and cons of homebirth and educate other mums to be, let's do it

perhaps you could address some of the points raised by me and others who have challenged your view point? rather than simply dismissing us all as vulgar

you can't engender healthy debate with a blanket statement of 'ban home births' and 'lets' rile up the womens'rights brigade'

I think somebody started a bunfight and doesn't have the intellectual wherewithall know how to handle it.

Hence his/her "vulgar" comments.

t-r-o-l-l

posted then buggered off. im gonna ignore. thats what im gonna do.

People responded to you a certain way because you wanted to wind people up. otherwise you wouldn't have started your 'discussion' with

QUOTE 'This should be a topic that will get the "rights for women" brigade fired up!'

You then proceeded to tell us why in your unprofessional capacity you thought this and ended with, basically, 'if you choose to HB then you are doing it for selfish reasons rather than give a shit about your unborn child'
I believe from what I have read both here and else where that HB-ers are more likely to read up and inform themselves than some-one who is just going to hospital because it's the norm.
(Not all of course)

Then, when no-one agreed with either your tone OR your views, you whine that all you wanted was a discussion, but that we are ruining that for you.

NHSsupporter:

So the comparisons are flawed because you disallow fixed costs? Fixed costs are still costs - they don't disappear just because you choose a different accounting method.

For the vast majority of women home births might as well already have been banned because they are never offered one.

33-50% of home births do not end up being blue lighted to hospital as a substantial number of us on MN will be able to tell you.

Necessary professionals being on hand? Are you joking? Have you read any of the other threads - a common complaint is the lack of staff to offer proper care.

Home birth is more about a 'pleasant birthing experience'.For some of us it's the only way to ensure a safe birth.

Does a 'pleasant birthing experience' matter? I must have missed the two threads about women feeling they are traumatised because they have not got the epidural they expected and have not had a pleasant birthing experience.

Point 3) I have to agree with so how do you suggest our hospitals improve the standard of care they offer and avoid some of the unecessary mortality?

I support the NHS too, but I think it's time that we stopped the nonsense of pretending that a safe hospital birth can be offered to everyone; some of the women on MN are getting a rubbish unsafe hospital service. It's time we put decent domiciliary services into place.

We haven't got into hospital acquired infections yet, have we? More babies killed as a result of Luton being badly run and filthy than all the home births in the UK put together for a decade, I should think.