Ban Home Births!

[NHSsupporter]

This should be a topic that will get the "rights for women" brigade fired up!

I have listened for several years to a close friend of mine who is an NHS Community Midwife, and have decided that we should bite the bullet and BAN "NHS sponsored home births".

I make this suggestion based on, what I believe to be, several compelling arguments:

1. Child safety

2. NHS Budget

3. Parent welfare

4. In my friends experience between 33%-50% of all home births at 2 hospitals she has worked at in 2 very different areas, seem to end up in difficulties ultimately requiring the attendance of paramedics, an ambulance, and subsequent blue-light evacuation to hospital. Surely it would be better for the unborn child's safety and welfare for it to start being born in a controlled environment, where all of the necessary professionals are already at hand should the need arise, rather than having to be born in an emergency and potentially rushed situation. Surely the welfare of the unborn child should be placed ahead of a so-called "pleasant birthing experience" for the new mother.

5. The use of emergency ambulance resources in 33%-50% of cases and Community Midwives must have an additional financial implication, which is significantly greater than parents, in a controlled way, simply entering the hospital and giving birth in a building, which already exists and is already being paid for, with staff present whose salaries are also part of the fixed costs of running the hospital. In this time of austerity surely this would be a sensible cost-saving exercise.

6. Parent physical and mental welfare would be significantly improved if emergency procedures could be avoided. I would go as far as to say, that I bet that one or more of the annual maternal deaths could be avoided.

I repeat, surely the welfare of the unborn child should be placed ahead of a so-called "pleasant birthing experience" for the new mother.

Comments welcomed?!

Well - based on extensive research i.e. my own labours - homebirths are 100% more likely to end with a happy mum and healthy baby. Does that mean that we can ban hospital births? Have a nice big of 'shut the fuck up' - and there's a lovely thread all about how we are all going to die in 2012 if you feel like some real scaremongering.

I love a bit of 'god help the youth of tomorrow', nothing like it for sounding like my husband's Grandmother on a bad day.

Not sure why the youth of tomorrow need help because NHS workers and midwifes are making vulgar comments, hardly have profound and lifelong impact the babes they deliver do they...surely the future youth need saving from all those mothers who have posted with their poor, vulgar and common remarks.

As for enhancing the education of first time mothers, I don't think your original post was ever going to achieve much of that now was it.

If you wish to enhance the education of mothers, you could start by acquainting yourself with some, you know, facts?

Ha! Nice one. Whooooooooooos that coming near my birth pool?

Now, banning epidurals, on the grounds of child safety, NHS budget and parent welfare - that I could think about getting on board with.

This is clearly just a wind-up and doesn't merit a direct response.

I see nothing wrong with home births. NHSsupporter is miss political correctness gone mad NHS hospitals are shit. After the way they treated myself and dd, I am adamant I'll never have another child in a UK hospital

Actually Mummy2Bookie NHS hopitals are not shit, they provide a crucial, at time life-saving service to an entire country who is fortunate enough to not pay at point of service. I am sorry you had a bad experience, and that many others do too, but to tarnish all hospitals with 1 experience is harsh.

As for the OP...clearly trying to wind up everyone, so i'll resist the urge to bite.

It will be interesting to see where births go over the next decade or so. With the NHS investing in hypnobirthing, exploring alternative forms of pain relief, and actively promoting homebirths in certain areas I'm intrigued to see how the model develops towards an increasingly "natural" approach to childbirth. It is lovely to see the UK is not following the US model at least. If anyone has time, look up "the business of giving birth" on youtube...a fascinating insight into how it works across the pond.

I found this thread and I thought that it was interesting that even Consultants are beginning to suggest that homebirths are a reasonable choice for many women:
www.2womenshealth.com/Childbirth/Home-Birth.htm

(I don't know anything about this Consultant - whether he counts as 'good' or whether he is out on a limb.)

It would be lovely if you could have a proper discussion early on in a pregnancy of pros and cons of both home and hospital so that you knew the advice was tailored to your own health - not the blanket 'home birth bad, hospital good'

NHS supporter - So basically you are just basing your OP on your opinion and a few comments from you proHB MW friend.

I suggest you go away and do some proper research before you make such ill informed sweeping statements.

this should get you started lots of links to research on HB.

You big twat.

The Business of Being Born- sorry girls. i got the title wrong in my last post!

Is The Business of Being Born available in full on YouTube? I've only been able to find a trailer but would like to see the whole film if I could.

That said, it is a shame that my well meant posting (albeit perhaps deliberately provocative) has created such a wave of clearly common and vulgar responses, rather than starting a healthy debate, which would add to and enhance the education of first-time mums.

You act like a twat then you will get called a twat ( you are lucky I said twat)

btw you will in no way help to educate first time mums.

Is nhssupporter a troll or a journalist? There are no other postings by her/him on mumsnet.

Childbirth is an inherently risky experience and always has been. Sadly the standard of care in hospitals nowadays means that the risks of giving birth there are often more than doing so at home. At home you will be attended by a mw as opposed to being left alone. You will not be forced into unnecessary interventions because your bed is needed by someone else. You will receive decent 1-1 post-natal care instead of being abandoned on a ward of 40 women with one mw for a nightshift.

Do pleasant birthing experiences include the desire not to be left doubly incontinent? Or unable to walk for 6 weeks?

Yes interventions are necessary sometimes but for the majority of low risk women there is more of a risk of something going wrong just by being in hospital.

Holland has a system based on women giving birth at home and only allow the most high risk to labour in hospital. It works for them but of course the mw costs are too high for us. Which is of course the real reason why it won't happen here. It's far easier to claim that a mw is giving full attention to 4 women in labour at the same time when they're in neighbouring rooms than if they're at home. If they were at home someone would actually have to attend them instead of relying on a monitor to pick up too late that a baby is in distress.

There's a desperate need to have a healthy debate, but NHSsupporter IMHO your first post didn't come across as that.

Most women give birth in CLUs; many women are being let down by the said CLUs. To me this is where the debate needs to be focused; going off about homebirths is just a smokescreen.

Many hospitals have VBAC clinics - it seems to me they could usefully ask why they have so many caesareans in the first place. In the light of this, some questions I'd like to see answered are:

how many inductions are really necessary, and not just done because the woman is getting to 42 weeks.

how many inductions fail - leading to CS.

I would never personally opt for a home birth (hypothetical as my child bearing days are over) as I had an epidural both times and it was wonderful! Would NOT have wanted to give birth without it! But to suggest giving women no choice in the matter is a retrograde step.

I'm thinking probably one of those (male) Faragits, no?

At last a smattering of sensible responses including especially the one from Tonythetyger.

I stand suitably admonished and understand more of the arguments now - however, I also now understand where Jeremy Kyle gets some of his participants from - and there was me thinking that they must all be actors because noone could be quite that thick, stupid and chavvy!

I don't know about cost differences. Most women, if they didn't have a C-section, get chucked out of hospital about 8 hours after the birth, no? The time of many days stay post-birth is mostly gone.

C-section rates for low risk mothers are lower in cases of planned homebirth, though, that's a point. All emergency procedure rates are lower for planned homebirths (that's in all the official stats), definitely throws your point 3 out.

I must also quibble about the alleged transfer rate; 30-50% can't be right for planned homebirths. More like 5-10% in my experience (my own homebirths and those of other people I know). I was transferred after homebirth of DC3 (in hospital for about 8 hours) because they thought I might need a blood transfusion; I didn't, though.

And I took an ambulance to hospital for my only planned hospital birth (we didn't own a car). So no cost savings there.

I'm not sure it's flattering to be complimented by someone who abuses everyone else. Lulumama made all the same points as me a couple of pages back.

Nhssupporter - if you really genuinely want to find out about this try toning down your language. Everyone has experiences and many are willing to talk about them, if someone genuinely wants to know.

If you want a bun fight then you have to be prepared to be hit.

Christ almighty

Thick, stupid and chavvy?

What a load of bollox. He has no idea of the demonraphic here, does he? He just wants to press our buttons because he can't sustain an argument (not having any facts or any ability to be persuasive).

Don't rise to him. It's like that Arthur bloke all over again.

Good way to start a healthy debate OP. At least you admit to being deliberately provocative. I'll leave it at that.

.

I think your spelling of demographic says it all really BoffinMum - Perhaps I have got the demographic just about spot on.
The only thing that could possibly make me look like a "him" is the slight facial hair under my nose, which is really quite embarrassing, and seems to get worse during pregnancy!
It is sad that you assume I must be a bloke because I hold some controversial opinions, am prepared to voice them, and throw some mud back at those people that started slinging it in the first place.
Ho hum, this is clearly not a place to visit if you believe in democracy.