not interested in a "magical experience" I just want to meet my baby

[MissyPie]

I've read a lot of posts on here which refer to the "magical experience" of chilbirth, so much so that someone has insinuated that they would prefer an unassisted birth in favour of this "magical experience"

I know some women like to connect with the baby as it is being born and I admire you, however AIBU to say that I'm not interested in how the baby gets here..I just want my baby in my arms and safe & well.

Although I look back fondly on my birth, I pretty much saw it as a "means to an end" and most magical moments have been in the 12 weeks since she was born.

Is there anyone out there who agrees with me? Obviously it's a personal choice but for me - I'd have epidural/drugs (the works) every time!

I dont recommend the book at all - its totally useless without the proper course run by a hypnobirthing practitioner. Go on their website, there are hundreds of wonderful experiences.

I'm sorry I dont mean to upset anyone, but I genuinely believe that having a great birth experience has changed my life. I feel powerful, I never felt so beautiful, it's improved my relationship with my partner massively, my daughter was born with no trauma, I can't really say enough how good it's been for me!

It doesn't work out that way for every one... but I would say it didn't just happen for me. I worked really hard to ensure it wasn't painful. And the benefits of that have been incredible.

I know loads of women who have had experiences like mine, and although ultimately it doesn't matter as long as you get your healthy baby, if you can prevent birth trauma it has a positive effect on mental health for both mother and baby.

I'm sorry if I'm upsetting anyone, but it's quite important to me

I completely agree with the OP, I am pregnant with DC3 and for me the whole birth process is about meeting the baby.

I have had a forceps birth and an EMCS so neither were typically magical but this didn't matter one bit to me, the important thing was my children were delivered safely.

Mooer I did hypnobirthing religiously, had a normal pregnancy, really prepared and educated myself but OP positioning put paid to it all leading to a forceps delivery. YES I did optimal foetal positioning.

Luck and chance play a part and not everyone can have the amazing experience you had.

So angry at your implication Mooer that a less than perfect birth is a failure to follow certain techniques. I hope you never have to find out the reality that birth is so often a matter of chance.

Women experience vastly different levels of pain in labour. Yes, a painless birth is unusual but it does happen. Three days of agony is also unusual. Most labours are somewhere in between.

The connection between fear and pain is real but complex. It isn't usually as simple as "I am not afraid, ergo I feel no pain". There's research on the mechanisms of pain (not specifically labour pain) which shows how being afraid can both sensitise someone's body and cause them to experience higher levels of pain or make them tense in a way that causes additional muscular pain. It isn't a huge leap to relate this to labour experience.

I did hypnobirthing to help me relax in labour and do count it as effective. It didn't remove all pain but I didn't really expect it to. It just kept things manageable and that was enough. Yes, the language in the book was a little new-agey but the principles correlated sufficiently with knowledge I already had from a post-grad literature review project I did years ago on pain and pain relief mechanisms that I was willing to try it.

My first birth I had a 33 hour labour loads of pain relief and a nasty second degree tear. My son was born with his hand up by his ear. I took six months for the tear to heal. Prehaps I should have listened to whale music more gawd only knows.

My second birth was lovely. I exprienced some pain, but it was bearable. The labour was three hours with a 2 minute second stage.

Both my births were magical. A new life had grown from my body. The birth of EVERY life is a magical event.

There are things that you can do to improve the odds of a good birth experience. However there is little point is worrying about something that you have little control over.

Hypobirthing/ natal hypnotheraphy does help you to relax. If you are tense then all your muscles tighten and that does make labour more painful. It can be a vicous circle.

As far as birth complications go its best to cross that bridge when you come to it. My ex neighbour had a traumatic birth inspite of using the CDs I had used. The point she made to me was that listening to the CDs helped her sleep when she was pregnant.

Ofcourse mothers experience pain in labour in the third world. Women who experience fourth degree tears in some countries are shunned from their communities. Tearing of flesh hurts whatever your nationality.

once again, sorry, I didn't want to touch any nerves. I certainly wouldn't ever call any mother a failure because her birth experience was bad! I'd blame poor resources available to women and not enough options available on the NHS for that. I dont want to upset anyone, I'll leave mumsnet

It is lucky that mooer worked SO hard. Of course the rest of us lazy fuckers felt pain because we just couldn't be arsed not to

Mooer - You were lucky your birth was straight forward. Not everyone is LUCKY enough to have that, no matter how many classes they took or how 'hard' they worked.

Don't leave mumsnet. Leave the thread if you want to, mumsnet is a great resource for EVERY mother. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however irate they may make others.

OK - the implication of Mooer's comment on "working hard" was unreasonable but I don't think she'd really thought it through or intended any insult. It sounded to me like an observation based (unwisely) solely on her personal experience rather than a judgment on others.

I honestly did work hard. We do have to take some responsibility you know! But I was lucky to have the resources to support me. Hypnobirthing, a great midwife. Not calling anyone lazy, just saying it's a shame you weren't given the same opportunities or resources that I was. I was lucky to have those choices. My birth had nothing to do with luck, I earnt it. I'm really upset that I've offended everyone so much and I will leave mumsnet, I didn't come here for conflict, only to explore other opinions with respect for each other

'My birth had nothing to do with luck, I earnt it'

Try netmums mooer.

Did you read my post Mooer? I did hypnobirthing to the letter every day for weeks and a variety of other things. It has nothing to do with resources in my case. It was the presentation of my daughter which made hypnobirthing useless. Don't you understand that not everything is cured by hard work? Without an epidural and forceps (ie in an undeveloped country) my baby and or me might have died. It's got nothing to do with hypnobirthing or work.

Threatening to leave mumsnet is ridiculous. Do what you like but please understand that hypnobirthing isn't always a short cut to a painless, easy birth.

Sorry OP I've derailed your thread a bit.

Animals do feel pain when they give birth though - they just can't articulate it like humans do

Also, a lot of animals do die in childbirth - both mother and the baby

I personally think its all down to luck..a friend of mine had a very bad first birth - position of baby meant c section incision was nearly hip to hip. Second time around she popped baby out vaginally with no worries. I asked if she did optimum foetal positioning etc and she just said no - no different to how she prepared for first birth

Really is luck of the draw

I wasn't interested in a "magical experience" or any kind of experience that involved something that size coming out of 'there' hence 2 perfect ELCS for me.

Think Mooer is a little disrespectful to the large amount of women who really wanted/tried for a natural birth and luck etc wasn't on their side - no body earns a good birth it is largely the luck of the draw.

I did want to support you up to this point, Mooer.

Yes, you can minimise birth risks but you can't guarantee the outcome. Many of us on here will have used hypnobirthing in some form and will be aware of its high "success rates".

Yes, more women than average who take the route that you did will have problem-free births but not all of them. Some will do everything humanly possible and still need a CS at the end of the day.

I also did everything I could to stack the odds in my favour and it worked out for me too. Yes, I think that all my time spent researching, exercising, reading hypnobirthing scripts was time well spent.

I would never assume that there wasn't still an element of risk involved. I just made it smaller and so did you.

I dunno.

I wanted a good birthing experience and ended up having everything apart from a C-section. Baby ended up being whisked away to the special care unit while I slept off the epidural. Having all the drugs doesn't always mean you get to meet your baby or have special bonding time or that your birth will be risk free. I feel a bit cheated out of that first photo with my baby moment. Though I am basically just pleased the baby came out alive and eventually well.

mooer Thu 06-Jan-11 19:52:09
"I didn't defy nature or science - no other mammals experience distress or pain while birthing their babies, they just do it in calm and quiet."

But other mammals do die in childbirth. As do other species: some species of livebearing fish are particularly prone to birthing problems as their offspring are relatively large (which is an evolutionary advantage in other ways). Which explains why humans also have frequent problems: it's that massive skull which is needed to contain the abnormally large brain. Evolution does not depend on every individual surviving birth or giving birth: it depends on the survival of a few individuals with evolutionary advantages. In some species (squid, some bony fishes, octopuses) all adults die once they have reproduced. It is not against Nature: it's how Nature works for this particular species.

And your contention that the pain of childbirth is a modern invention is total bollocks, sorry. There is plenty of talk in ancient literature about the pain of childbirth and women dying in childbirth. The book of Genesis (3: 16) even tries to use the story of Eve and the apple as an explanation for why women suffer so much pain giving birth. I hope you are not trying to contend that the book of Genesis was written within the last few generations?

The number of women with PTSD and PND relating to traumatic births suggests to me that anything which is done to make the experience of childbirth better for mothers is not a wasted effort.

I've only got three children and their births have been the highpoint of my life. I'm profoundly glad I've had the opportunity to experience the sense of empowerment and euphoria which is often the result of a successful homebirth. I think those people who've not experienced this have missed out on something very special.

It's lucky for us that those things which are likely to make a birth a 'magical experience' (really good care, a decent birth environment, and a sense of autonomy), are also linked to better birth outcomes for mums and babies.

absolutely agree that I really couldn't give a monkeys about the birth process and read very little about it beforehand other than to know what the various options were (many of which were taken away from me anyway due to induction on DD). The baby has to get from inside to outside as safely as possible, end of story and I really don't think (other than serious trauma) it should have any effect on the bonding or breastfeeding process. I was so knocked out by the failed induction and CS that i don't remember the first 12 hours of my son's life and my milk didn't come in for a week but I don't feel that we are any less bonded than anyone else. Given the uncertainties nd unpredictabilities of birth I think too much preparation and planning can increase anxiety if it doesn't all go to plan.

i wasn't expecting or after a 'magical expeience' in giving birth to DD1 - but it was anyway.
When she came out i felt happier than i ever felt before. magic.

i might have felt the same way if i hadn't been at home, intervention free - or not. I'll never know.

so keep an open mind, op. You may not look for it, but it may be there anyway - and vey much worth having.

My personal experience is that there is a very wide space between "high point of my life" and "traumatised", and both my births (one vaginal, one EMC) fitted nicely in that space.

I knew that my dcs were the kind of babies who would probably not have survived had Nature been allowed to take its course, and chances are I wouldn't have survived either. Which of course would have been fine from the point of view of Nature and Evolution and all those things, but less desirable as far as I was concerned.

If some women experience awful period pain each month and some women (e.g. me) experience none, is that because I am much more stoic and hardcore than those who have to lie down with a hot water bottle and paracetamol?

I can assure you it's not. It's the luck of the draw, just like labour. Yes, fear does make pain worse but does that explain why I felt like I was being electrocuted up my spine for hours while a friend of mine who has had 2 DCs is still "waiting for it to be sore"?