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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

What do mumsnetters think of freebirthing?

198 replies

withorwithoutyou · 25/07/2010 14:07

Just wondered what people on here think of freebirthing as I've never seen it discussed on here before.

My gut feeling is that it's dangerous and an unnecessary risk but I've never really heard the positives - does anyone know much about it, or have experience of it?

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TheButterflyEffect · 25/07/2010 22:18

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TheButterflyEffect · 25/07/2010 22:23

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LynetteScavo · 25/07/2010 22:24

I can see the appeal. I like to be left alone to get on with things. But of course you need someone there, just in case. I was very lucky to have a home birth (we're only a few mins' from hospital) with a midwife who seemed to do nothing but watch...but I'm sure she actually did quite a lot during the birth, not to mention clearing up afterwards.

free birthers would probably have a dog wondering around to sort that out, though.

TheButterflyEffect · 25/07/2010 22:25

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TheButterflyEffect · 25/07/2010 22:28

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LynetteScavo · 25/07/2010 22:29

I agree with what you are saying, TheButterflyEffect, But I would rather insist on a natural 3rd stage, and no intervention with a medic present than freebirth. The thing is most pg woman aren't aware of the risks that come with intervention during labour.

TheButterflyEffect · 25/07/2010 22:54

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CarmenSanDiego · 26/07/2010 03:13

Yes, I agree with TheButterflyEffect.

In most hospitals in California, avoiding intervention is very, very difficult and if you're VBACing, it's impossible. The midwives I know say, "Buy a hospital ticket, take the hospital ride."

All the local birth centres refuse VBAC women. That's why I had a home birth.

The sad thing is California is one of the most progressive states. In some states, home birth is illegal or not covered by insurance so some people cannot afford a midwife.

I can understand why people freebirth when they do not have the choice of a safe home birth and the alternative is a brutal and rigid hospital.

I can't understand freebirthing when you can have a perfectly good midwife present, even if she's in the other room (and for free on the NHS).

expatinscotland · 26/07/2010 09:03

I can totally see why people freebirth in the US.

Some of these women have been effectively sexually assaulted.

BalloonSlayer · 26/07/2010 09:15

foreverastudent said: "The birth itself went fine. DD and I were perfectly healthy until the midwives made a catalogue of negligent errors which could have killed us both. "

Sorry for your experience. Can I ask: what did the midwives do? Was it something you could have done for yourself? Are you saying that you and DD would have been perfectly OK with no medical attention whatsoever?

Negligence means a lack of proper care and attention. So isn't freebirthing, opting out of proper care and attention, Negligence By Choice?

LynetteScavo · 26/07/2010 09:19

Oh, indeed I have had a midwife pulling on the cord when I delivered DS2 in hospital in the uK. I asked her to stop. She said "what and just leave your uterus to clamp down on the placenta?" So I said "It won't, I don't want an injection....."

Obviously she'd already administered it,(without my consent or realising) and the look which went between her and the other midwife present was absolutely priceless.

They then checked, and double checked, and tipple checked I wanted DS to have the vit K injection. And also checked with DH.

juuule · 26/07/2010 09:36

Butterflyeffect - the UK has it's own horror stories Mother's epidural death unlawful.
I'm sure most places do.

Beveridge · 26/07/2010 09:58

I wanted a HB with DD. Didn't get it for various reasons but that's another story. My attitude was always that it was either 'HB or labour ward- with bells on'and I still stand by that, even though I ended up in theatre with forceps.

I do think it's naive to assume that just because you're in hospital, all risks are covered. Babies die in hospital in labour because cords are wrapped round their neck and this is not picked up on (happened to someone I know ). A friend of mine laboured for a very long time before midwives realised the placenta was blocking the cervix , she was finally given a section.

I often wonder why women coming into hospital in labour are not routinely scanned to check everything is in order, if the major benefit of hospital delivery is to have the latest technology on your side? (apart from cost and time, of course).

However, I cannot imagine why anyone would want to freebirth in the UK when you have the right to a HB in the appropriate circumstances - I like to think I have a good level of scientific/medical knowledge for a layman and read quite extensively on labour and childbirth while pregnant with DD but no way would I want to give birth without a professional with me. I am very, very sympathetic to those who dread the process of birth because of previous abuse or trauma but as a parent, shouldn't you want to put your child's safety first and at least have someone there who can recognise if you need intervention?

foxytocin · 26/07/2010 10:23

"I can't understand freebirthing when you can have a perfectly good midwife present, even if she's in the other room (and for free on the NHS)."

Can I qualify this statement with the fact that it depends on the relationship with the midwives and previous experiences one has had on the NHS.

In my experience the care I received in hospital during labour, delivery and on the pn ward was so bad I suffered PND and PTSD. I have detailed it enough times on MN so I don't want to cover old ground again and risk boring anyone.

In my second pg it surfaced as a phobia of going to labour in hospital so I, in what I thought was a sensible move, requested a home birth. I had my assigned midwife coolly lie to me about the option for a home birth. She spent another 20 minutes shroud waving hypothetically suggesting every thing that may go wrong in a home birth to dissuade me. I was like inside but continued to let her talk to see how far she'd take this nonsense. Eventually she said: Well, what does your husband think about it? I replied: If my husband cannot talk me out of a home birth then you don't have any chance of doing so. End of appointment.

I then spent the next week going from depressed to angry and researched my options again. I wrote to the SOM requesting a different midwife with was granted. At the second appointment she (team leader of the community midwives) regaled me for ten minutes with promises that they would attend my birth anywhere then finally add that if they were busy then I would have to come in (to the labour ward). At that point, every single drop of trust and hope drained away.

I felt I could no longer trust these women who were willing to lie and obstruct their way into getting me to do what they wanted.

I told her that my first experience of labour was so horrific that I can only relate to it now as a (long) episode of rape. And the suffering continued on the PN ward for my daughter due to poor breastfeeding knowledge in the staff.

From then on, (about 19 weeks) I started to understand what drove some women to free birth. The availability of midwives and home births go a long way in providing safe birthing options in the UK and I would never advise women to free birth as a life style choice. However when even this avenue is closed off by lack of support from those who are paid to give support, then some women feel driven to consider the previously unthinkable.

I began to visualise a birth without (these) midwives. I could not afford an IM and I couldn't find one practising in my area anyway or I would have considered a bank loan. I could not ask my husband to support the possibility of an unassisted birth so I just kept visualising no midwives a birth before arrival of the midwives. I chose a WB so that I could limit them touching me and was ready to tell them to wait in the dining room depending on how amenable or overbearing they turned out to be.

They were called and I immediately had this wave of panic that they would get here and have to wait around for me to give birth (yes, it sounds like crazy talk) so I crawled into the living room and began in my mind a race to get dd out before they arrived. I wholly agree that this is not a normal thing for a woman in labour to consider but it gives an insight into my anxiety, desperation and mistrust brought on by a poor experiences with the staff.

As circumstance has it, they arrived 5 minutes late, helped by the taxi driver pulling up in the wrong street and dh and I being too busy to answer the phone when they rang for directions.

as it turned out the senior of the two midwives was a bossy old cow so I am glad they could only touch my baby until I was ready to hand her over to them.

QueenofDreams · 26/07/2010 10:26

I personally wouldn't do it - but then I can have midwives present. Generally in a homebirth the mw's just stand to one side and let you get on with it. THey only get involved if anything goes wrong/you are struggling.

However, I've heard they've just made it illegal in New York for anyone BUT a doctor to deliver a baby. So they've just made midwives illegal. This means women are left with the choice of overmedicalised labour on their backs with an increased risk of complications, or an unassisted birth. What a bloody horrible position to be put in. They're being forced into doing it essentially, and that makes me angry on their behalf!

BreastmilkDoesAFabLatte · 26/07/2010 10:59

Most people on this thread seem to be assuming that homebirths are an option for all women in the UK. Unless you can pay for an independent midwife, it isn't the case...

BoffinMum · 26/07/2010 13:14

Breastmilk, any RCM registered midwife is obliged to attend a woman in labour if she is asked to, whether it's at home or in hospital. If they do not attend you they can be struck off. So any woman can ring and demand a midwife (or doctor) to come out to the house, and someone would have to turn up. That having been said, I would recommend a bit more homework and relationship building first, of course.

BreastmilkDoesAFabLatte · 26/07/2010 14:04

I know. But once arrived at the woman's house, said midwife can simply call 999 and bundle the woman into an ambulance - and even if said midwife doesn't want to, she may have been ordered to do so by the woman's consultant.

OK, said midwife/consultant would then have to call the police to get the woman into the ambulance. But Section 136 of the Mental Health Act would probably allow the police to force the woman into hospital by terming it as a "place of safety". And given that a Section 136 would then lead to an obligatory follow-up assessment from Social Services (which could take place before woman is allowed home from hospital)... really, it would be in no woman's interest to refuse to go to hospital.

As you say, it's all about relationship-building. IMHO I think that any woman desperate enough to want to freebirth to avoid hospital needs a bit more time and sympathy than the NHS can normally provide...

TheButterflyEffect · 26/07/2010 14:05

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BreastmilkDoesAFabLatte · 26/07/2010 14:17
TheButterflyEffect · 26/07/2010 14:38

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BoffinMum · 26/07/2010 21:42

I'd really like to see the Police invoking the Mental Health Act and forcing a woman in labour into an ambulance, I really would. I mean, that just is so unlikely. They'd look complete idiots the morning afterwards, frankly.

I think they would be a lot more likely to lean on the midwife to get on with it and deliver the baby with the minimum of fuss.

BreastmilkDoesAFabLatte · 26/07/2010 23:19

I'm sure that's very true. But I wouldn't have wanted to be the woman in labour around whom such drama was unfolding...

SolidGoldBrass · 26/07/2010 23:30

It's not something I would have done - I was acutally offered a home birth and turned it down flat - which was just as well really as I ended up having to be induced with raging hypertension. However I can sort of see the point of view of those who have had previous bad experiences with HCPS but am less impressed with the sort of back-to-nature mentalists who won;t seek help even when it's obvious that something;s going badly wrong.

MisSalLaneous · 26/07/2010 23:39

I think it is selfish and self-indugent.