Your child freedom formula / child anxiety programmes - thread 2

[Psuedoshoes]

Carrying on the discussion of YCFF and other similar programmes...

Link to previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/child_adolescent_mental_health/4239684-your-child-freedom-formula-has-anyone-tried-it?msgid=108493516#108493516

This is the review that was deleted from Trustpilot. My guess is that YCFF whined that the reviewer wasn't a previous paying client, that's probably a viable reason for deletion. However, the review is seemingly genuine and describes an experience the reviewer had with the 'business'.

Imagine running a company where your Facebook business page is one name, your website is another name, and your testimonials are from a different business again. If it wasn't for the fact they're apparently profiting enormously from the misery & sorrow of others I'd find it highly amusing.

I recently watched the HTA webinar. It is clear that the HTA journey to to purchase a coaching package is the same as that employed by PP. The use of a countdown to a webinar followed by a lengthy webinar, follow up emails, a lengthy and helpful telephone conversation with a 'breakthrough' consultant with the specific aim of closing a sale is the same. Downselling is referred to - I wonder if that is when PP introduced the option of a parent delivering the formula themselves to their child for £2500 rather than the full package at £5500. The terminology is the same - breakthrough consultant ie sales person, use of 'formula', resonates, create scarcity in the product.

One of HTA's aim to help a business create a 'marketing machine' - take cold leads and warm then up in to a high paying client within days.

The above entirely fits with my experience with and discomfort of PP. This kind of sales tactic should not be permitted when it comes to vulnerable people. it is a different matter if you are setting up a business to coach runners - although I still don't like it - a different standard is required when selling to vulnerable people.

HTA aims for a minimum of 1 in 6 leads signing up. It would not be surprising if PP are substantially higher than 100k a month or will be in the near future.

This is exactly the sort of profiteering Panorama should be investigating. Presumably PP are aware that there is a concern that they are profiteering from vulnerable children and their families hence the reference to it in the review above.

I don't know if PP services would be VAT exempt - I suspect not. Has anyone seen an invoice?

I would not generally describe myself as a vulnerable person but when I got in contact with PP I was . I am enraged that I have been the subject of such a marketing machine when it comes to the health and well being of my child.

Since joining this thread I have tried to be measured and open minded. The more I look into PP the less measured I feel! This is clearly a business with a fundamental aim of making money. It may have other aims.

Your journey sounds just like mine @Daaxy. Just information gathering initially, confusion at the business ethics and then concern that there are loopholes that allow this to continue unregulated.

Has anyone checked out Sam on LinkedIn? Looks like she graduated in 2019 (Psychology) and is currently studying to be a Psychological Wellbeing Practitioner. Maybe those are the qualifications she refers to for all of her team, not sure this is adequate as lack of clinical experience is evident if those details are correct.

uk.linkedin.com/in/samantha-robins-clovelly-calm - This is her profile. How much of it do you think is fictitious?

If you read that without doing any other research or actually knowing the truth, you might consider joining her scheme. But then, being untruthful on a CV isn’t a new concept, and I guess this isn’t much different.

I was looking at a different profile. There are a lot of similarities but probably not the same person.

Can’t comment on what might be fictitious although I suspect it is cleverly worded to avoid naming qualifications etc. It is just what she wants us to see.

That’s an interesting assessment daaxy. The downselling is what made me initially think it was a pyramid scheme or MLM. And I bet how you describe yourself as vulnerable at the time of the sales pitch resonates with a lot of people. I never feel as vulnerable as I do when I’m in thinking about my kids. There’s also the power imbalance within that relationship, like there can be with all ‘professionals’ who are tasked with helping our children. When someone supposedly has all the knowledge about how to fix your child, it can be hard to feel like you can challenge that. Or it can feel like if you ask questions it’s just because your not clever enough to understand it or because you’re being difficult.

But what really gets me is all the lies and dishonesty. I initially was pissed off when I saw their YCFF page, but now I’m more angry. That they’re just keeping on going and not giving a shit. And you’re right, high pressure sales tactics exist in lots of places but it’s not ethical when it comes to vulnerable families. Guess they like the money tho.

I didn’t get any down selling on my call, just lots of questions about finances and asking if I could put it on credit cards.
At that time it was preferred to pressure people into large debts rather than lower the cost.

comfy there's another Samantha Robins on LinkedIn that has some actual qualifications a d experience. "Our" Sam, has an NCFE in anxiety recovery. I think early on on the first thread we had a look into this and IIRC, it's a qualification in the Linden method.

daaxy thanks for your post, it's really interesting to hear your thoughts.

Comfysofa - i am interested to know about how PP/YCFF have been suggesting people finance the programme. Did they explore your financial circumstances? Make any other suggestions about how to finance? DId they try to overcome any concern you may have expressed about how to raise the money? Maybe they didn't - they didn't with me. Don't answer if too personal. I am interested to hear about other people's experiences.

My reason for not signing up on that call, and I was asked a few times to do so, was not about raising money but about wanting to think about it (obviously!) and to discuss it with others. I was asked how I would respond if anyone I spoke to disagreed with me signing up - I was effectively being encouraged to rehearse how I would overcome the objections of others.

Can the title of this thread be amended to include Peaky Parents?

Can the title of this thread be amended to include Peaky Parents?

I was just thinking the same thing, to enable it to come up in searches.
MN may do it if you report the thread, though they may want the thread starter to request, not sure.

I was asked if I had family that could loan me money, credit cards or savings. She even asked me how I would pay if the boiler broke as she was convinced I had means to pay. I was offered a payment plan but as the programme is about 2 months it was 2 payments of £2.75k so not really flexible at all.

She also asked what I thought of their offerings and used my feedback to convince me it was good. She also asked me what other options I had to make it seem the only way to proceed. Although, looking back I was not told anything about their approaches. I learnt more on this thread which is also very sparse of detail 😂. They used key words like ‘coaching’, ‘mentors’, ‘butterfly’, ‘ cocoon’, ‘caterpillar’ as well as the build up on how many sessions they provide to back up the cost. But no actual details on approaches.

I asked her to email in a week or two once I had time to think and sort things out but no email came. Maybe as they only want the really desperate parents, not really sure.

Comfy - offered a payment plan - was this just staggered payments or finance with interest? It would not be surprising if they are linked with a finance company that can provide loans to prospective customers. I wonder what the interests rates would be....

My experience was similar -taken through a staged sales pitch. Very clumsy, and off putting to me in any other context. Yet ,I still found myself seriously contemplating it. I wanted this to be the answer as it would be a relatively quick fix to my son's unhappiness - pretty much guaranteed.

I think i can be naive - I generally believe what people say. I do not do a lot of social media/internet so my ability to research something such as Peaky Parents would be limited -nothing like as extensive as you ladies (?). If there is a review on a website I am believing it! That is what is so worrying - I could have signed up for this without having the benefit of all this additional information before I made an informed decision.

This thread is such a learning curve!

Those tactics are terrible. To try and get you into debt so they can have more money. Clearly being in debt will not be good for a family’s wellbeing or a child’s mental health (obvs they don’t think that anxiety is a mental health problem).

I think @Psuedoshoes started the thread. Maybe she can report it to edit the title to include Peaky Parents.

The other thing that makes me highly uncomfortable and I think is plainly wrong is using children/young people to do a review for any business where their identify is known (either directly or by jigsaw identification). What is the lasting benefit to a young person to give a video testimony for a business? What if the young person deteriorates in their well being - it would make it more difficult for them to seek help potentially from their parent or mentor if the had given such a positive review along with many other reasons. It is not to their benefit - unless they are paid for it, or offered a job as a mentor?

I agree. In my job we work with vulnerable young people. And even if a young person is willing to be identified, we wouldn’t. Sam then change the YCFF website so it didn’t have testimonials. But then started Peaky Parents and had the testimonials up again!

Not sure if they would have offered finance through a partner company, we didn’t get that far but the only payment plan was half over 2 months no not useful really.
The sales pitch was definitely aimed at being emotive and pointing out that we’ve tried everything else that hasn’t worked. It wouldn’t be quite as bad if you felt it was all coming from a supportive, empathetic team but these tactics certainly don’t give that vibe.

On the subject of cost and financing, another person's post about their experience, back in May of this year.

"My friend and I have teenage daughters suffering from anxiety and depression. We came across these people on Facebook and we decided that one of us will make thr call to see what it would cost. My friend spoke with them and expressed that the whole experience is emotional blackmail. The lady even said to her that it's not like she's on benefits and can't afford it. They then suggested a finance option and a company that can offer a loan. She told them where to go. For those that do not want to waste their time, what they claim to offer is a 20 minute session talking to someone 4 times a week all done online. Just take a look at the owner's LinkedIn page. She has no background in this area other than her own experience. She has no background in any type of employment full stop. Her only qualification is a NFCE certificate. £5500 can get plenty sessions with a qualified clinical psychologist. They are taking advantage of desperate parents who want to see their children get better."

This might help those when they’re doing research:

uk.trustpilot.com/review/peakyparents.com

I’d not noticed that post concerned

Sam/Martin/Peaky Parents - i would be interested to hear your direct responses to some of the issues that have been raised on this thread . Sam, I think you have tried to respond but Mumsnet blocked your response (because Mumsnet thought you had posted under different names?)? I would be interested to hear your response and think it fair that you are given opportunity to do so under your own own name. Please try and post again - if you are blocked from doing so I will raise with Mumsnet that I would like to hear your response. I am sure others more familiar with Mumsnet will do likewise and try to assist so that you are able to respond.

When the posts ere deleted Sam was given an email address to contact mumsnet as the business owner to arrange to tell her side of the story. As herself rather than pretending to be someone else, as yet we’ve seen nothing.

I have suggested a few times that we get some feedback from her but it seems that people who ask questions are not the sort of clientele she wants to impress or win over.

Unfortunately my beleif is that no one from YCFF/PP will want to come and answer these questions. My freind tried to get some answers back when she had her experience with YCFF to no avail.

There is no motivation to respond as we are not potential clients. I wonder if anyone who is thinking of paying for the programme would be willing to ask these questions in their discovery call with PP and report back here to us?

I understand Radio 4 is broadcasting a programme - I think it may be called The dark side of mental health - on 21/9/21.

I have contacted Mumsnet - the title of this thread cannot be amended to include Peaky Parents but a new thread can be started and the link to this thread copied in.

I think that any prospective clients of Peaky Parents (or renamed future business) will benefit from considering the information on this thread and thread 1 , before making a decision to sign up.

I suggest that before 21.9.21 we :-

1. set up a new thread - name to include Your Child Freedom Programme/YCFF, Peaky Parents, child anxiety help (anything else)
2. the thread includes links to this and thread 1
3. at the start a brief summary of the concerns along with links to anything relevant (facebook, trustpilot, High Ticket etc)

What do you think? I am not familiar with how browsers pick up on information in Mumsnet when doing a search....

Does anyone have a list summarizing the concerns and/or relevant links?

PM if you prefer.

Right now, I do not know how to set up a link and copy in other threads. I am happy to collate any info that is posted or sent by PM. I really don't mind if anyone else wants to do this - you have all been involved in this far longer than me and are more familiar with the details