Suicidal DD (16)

[Noregrets78]

Wish I knew what to do, I feel helpless and useless. She's cut herself, taken overdoses, yesterday tried to strangle herself in the school toilets. She'd like to be admitted to a psych ward but everything I hear is that it's not a good plan. CAMHS involved, they're very clear with me that if she wants to take her life we can't stop her. Strangely I'm struggling to accept that... School knew she was struggling but I need to tell them what happened yesterday. But then they'll need to put something in place to keep her safe on the premises - accompanied toilet visits? Someone following her at all times? That will all just make her more down. What on earth to do.

Sorry your daughter is experiencing mental health crisis. Really hard
She wants admission.You seem reluctant to consider an inpatient admission,why?
School won’t follow her or accompany to toilet,if she needs that level of supervision I’d suggest call CAMHS. She probably need inpatient admission
Are you getting any additional support?home treatment team?

Hi - thanks for your reply. Even CAMHS have said that inpatient is not a pleasant place, that she may well be sheer terrified, or come out having learnt new tricks. They seem to think it's not the right place for her. I can see it would keep her safe in a crisis, but tbh it's been going on so long, and they can't keep her in forever. We have had crisis team home visits in the past, following suicide attempts. They don't know about this one, but I could call them. But again tbh they ask how she is, have a bit of a chat, but she doesn't really tell them honestly. As she wants to kill herself, so if she tells people they'll stop her... I can never tell if she's improving or not. It really needs to come from her - wanting to live. But how to get there!

Inpatient can be scary,unfamiliar and noisy, it can also be containing and safe and provide a level of supervision and support she cannot get in a domestic setting or at school
If she has suicidal intent and previous DSH that will need to be assessed and managed
What other options are being discussed

Are you aware of what she is doing online?

I had a similar experience (teacher) and when parents really looked into things they found their DD was obsessively looking at teen psych patients who blog or make TicToc videos of their time. Sort of glamourising it.

I agree though, it sounds like you are running out of options so perhaps inpatient admission is worth a try. You need to get back in touch with CAMHs.

Waiting for CAMHS to call back - she's on the list for DBT but could be 3-6 months. Other than that it's occasional psychiatrist appointments for medication review. Not much happening atm on the basis none of the talking therapy was working so there's no point carrying on (CAMHS view). I've been looking into lining up another private counsellor or something, just so she's got someone to talk to. I figure everyone words things differently and something might click... but this feels more immediate.
AFAIK she's watching pretty innocuous stuff on Tik Tok / YouTube, but she's past the age where I can snoop too much without destroying our trust.

I've also asked the Priory how much their inpatient stays cost! No idea if I could gather the money but it would be nice to know the options. Don't know if that would be any better than an NHS psych ward - pretty grounds and buildings don't necessarily add up to results...

In my teens, I was ill like your poor DD. I have recently been diagnosed with PMDD, which carries a high suicidal ideation rate. I just wonder whether there is a link to her menstrual cycle. It can produce terrible feelings.

Can you pull her out of school? Empty the house of everything you could feel has the slightest risk attached to it, and have someone with her around the clock? For now, that is what I would do personally. We would even have her in bed with me.

I would set up a programme of running every day (with her)
walking
Buy a pet for her to take care of
Healthy foods
Meditation everyday
Breathing techniques
Talk and talk, try to uncover where the root is for her
Put flowers and plants in her room, ask her to water them
Take her wild swimming once a week
Ask her friends to come over every week for dinner, movie
Stop SM altogether.

I think you need to get the big guns out, and do something really really drastic. Even in the worst case she still found a way, you will know you have done everything possible.

I would not trust the school, any school to stay on top of this op.

I say this as someone in a similar place as a teen, do not give up and listen to CAHMS - there is ALWAYS much that can be done, always because she is your child, and you do what you need to.

She may not always stay like this, in my case it lifted naturally around 19 years old. So sorry op I can't imagine what you are going through. Make sure you get some support for yourself as well.

My daughter struggles with severe depression.

I bought one of these

Flowneuroscience

I am not recommending this as such because it won't help everyone but it has certainly helped my daughter. She is still taking her antidepressants and high dose Vitamin D but before starting using this she was much worse. She is now going out, where restrictions allow, and is much brighter and more positive.

She did find it quite difficult to start with as it is a bit uncomfortable but she wouldn't be without it now.

It may be worth doing your own research around it and see if you think it may be helpful.

Thanks all - I had wondered about links to menstral cycle, but the timing doesn't quite fit.
The flow device looks interesting as it's something different! I'll do some research.
Last time she took an overdose I took time off work, sat down with her and came up with a daily plan - eating better, exercise, something to look forward to etc. But it was all driven by me, CAMHS view was that I was over invested and needed to let her make her own choices. I really don't think she'd want that level of smothering everyday, or to share a bed etc. She can barely get motivated to get out of bed so it's really blinking tough getting her to do anything more. My work is really good at allowing me time off, but I do need to get stuff done!

My friends daughter was in a similar place, she has been diagnosed with a highly over-active thyroid, seems counter-Intuitive but could be worth considering.

I'm sorry your daughter is struggling so much.

I would definitely contact the school, as they may not be able to eliminate all risks, but they should be able put strategies in place to mitigate the risks. She may not like some of these things, but that's because of the place she is in right now, and as she feels better she will probably begin to appreciate that they were for her benefit.

I agree with PP about inpatient admission - it's a very fine line and a difficult decision to make. In your position I would find CAMHS very frustrating. It's true that you should not feel responsible for anything that your daughter chooses to do, but ultimately they are pushing some responsibility back on to you for keeping her safe. It might be worth pushing back a bit and expressing that you no longer feel able to do so, if you think inpatient admission is the right thing for her. That's not a failure on your part, it's just a fact that there is better supervision on a ward. You still have to sleep, eat, work etc and the constant worry must be exhausting.

Remember there is always A and E if you feel she is in immediate danger. I hope things improve for you both soon

but I do need to get stuff done!

What is exactly is more important this at the moment? You may say the world can't stop turning, no, but you can take drastic action if you wanted to.

I don't think it is smothering, it is actually called rather flippantly 'love bombing' and can be highly effective. We were in the same position with a good friend of ours, he was an adult. We had a rota with someone with him at all times, it took a lot of commitment and effort, but it is worth it to keep him safe - and we got there in the end. It will pass op, nothing lasts forever.

I guess you need to do what works for you, I personally wouldn't be sending her anywhere if she is suicidal, how on earth is she even coping with the school day? She sounds to be in a very bad place op.

I am shocked noregrets about the advice CAMHS have given you, I am not sure it is helpful calling you 'over invested' when your child is attempting suicide, that is ridiculous, she is your child of course you have to do everything you can to help, she is still so young and is struggling to help herself at the moment.

Leaving her to 'her own choices' could mean losing her, and it may look to her like no one cares about her, leaving her to it.

Your dd doesn't want to be feeling like this, she isn't choosing to feel so desperate and deeply sad, she is in a terrible place and needs all the love and investment she can get. I really hope something helps op Feel so bad for you, we have been there - both sides of the experience and it is horrendous.

@Friendsoftheearth

What is exactly is more important this at the moment? You may say the world can't stop turning, no, but you can take drastic action if you wanted to

Nasty comment.

Do you suppose if the OP loses her job things will be good for her DD??

Has she been harmed by anyone?
Is she chronically depressed or more emotionally impulsive? Ie is she sad and suicidal for days on end or is she more up and down?

A lot of teen psych hospitals are run by priory as there are so few beds. There can be difficulties with teens pushing for the next level of containment, so pushing for voluntary admission but then once in pushing for the next thing which is detention to hospital ... this might be what camhs are trying to avoid.

Could you pay for psychology in the community?

Sounds so hard I’m sorry to hear this.

Really sad to hear this. There is so much pressure on young people these days. Just sad and have no answers for you. You must get support for yourself. I'm presuming you have already tried BACP registered therapy?

@Friendsoftheearth has some great ideas. SM is not going to help one bit.

Have a look at this self help CBT guide;

www.getselfhelp.co.ukdocs/SelfHelpCourse.pdf

I feel for you op. Don't think my dd was as severe as yours and CAMHS were unspeakably unhelpful. The following helped:

Full blood screening to discount things like thyroid, identify vit D deficiency, etc, iron levels, B12?

Believe it or not an additional 5mg of Fluoxetine worked wonders although nice guidelines say no point. She has 20mg and 30mg on alternate days (forgive me if I have got my Mgs and mcgs confused).

She clicked with a counsellor through Relate - had 8 sessions but could dip in thereafter when necessary.

She did have a private psychiatrist who assessed for ASD and ADHD. DD had ADHD and once medicated it made a huge difference.

15 to 17 were very difficult. She is 22 now and doing well. She will always be prone to anxiety and depression but manages it well.

I think you have to put her first for a period and do what is necessary. However, you also must take care of yourself and be kind to yourself.

You are receiving some mixed responses op
Thing about mental health is it isn’t just a bit of chin up and no social media to see an improvement
Realistically,she is a young adult in domestic setting, and for her age SM is the norm. It’s part of her external world. If you think the SM is a trigger decrease the amount and encourage looking at appropriate sites
You need to continue to work,and as you rightly point out you too have other responsibilities. External demands and financial commitment doesn’t stop because your daughter Is unwell.
You can’t immerse or love bomb your way out of this, and you need to maintain your employment & routine. You also need order and structure. As hard as it is you need a semblance of normality for yourself

@Noregrets78

I've also asked the Priory how much their inpatient stays cost! No idea if I could gather the money but it would be nice to know the options. Don't know if that would be any better than an NHS psych ward - pretty grounds and buildings don't necessarily add up to results...

100k

Did she inform you about the school toilets or did a class mate? I would absolutely tell the school what’s going on and make sure they put provisions in place.

I don't think anybody said chin up and no SM. I don't want to derail this , but what would SM contribute to the young person who is so unwelll please?

OP from a realistic perspective, dd's therapy, adhd/asd assessments and related psychiatric consultations cost me about £6k in total. The consultations re anxiety and depression, 8 day patient sessions re self harm: cutting, eating, pills were covered by insurance, 5 therapy sessions covered by insurance, non neuro developmental disability consultations covered by insurance. I added it up once and it was about £22k.

CAMHS did swing in once I got out MP involved and would have picked up some responsibility but by then other things were in place.

I would her much advocate that every interraction with camhs is confirmed and followed up in writing, setting out exactly what they have said they will do and confirming the time frames they have advised. Add a paragraph "if I do not hear from you to the contrary by close of business on x date I shall assume my understanding is correct and what I have outlined above will be provided in accordance with our conversation and what you confirmed on ..........

They are disingenuous, slithery little Buggers in my experience and I wish it weren't so.