Suicidal DD (16)

[Noregrets78]

Wish I knew what to do, I feel helpless and useless. She's cut herself, taken overdoses, yesterday tried to strangle herself in the school toilets. She'd like to be admitted to a psych ward but everything I hear is that it's not a good plan. CAMHS involved, they're very clear with me that if she wants to take her life we can't stop her. Strangely I'm struggling to accept that... School knew she was struggling but I need to tell them what happened yesterday. But then they'll need to put something in place to keep her safe on the premises - accompanied toilet visits? Someone following her at all times? That will all just make her more down. What on earth to do.

My son is suffering from severe depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts.

We’ve been told to let him have his phone as it’s a positive thing and illustrates him trying to boost his mood.

He couldn’t access any of the things Friends suggested. He can’t even get out of bed.

It’s interesting re getting things in writing. I haven’t and my ds has been on meds for 6 weeks, no real improvement and no sign of talking therapy.

Social media used appropriately is a distraction,maintains contacts,is age appropriate. It’s a normal young adult thing to do
There are MH apps, support, meditation, nutrition. In particular because of covid a lot of support is now video consultation or online support
Sm is a useful mental heath recovery tool, and it’s an integral part of life
It’s more healthy to develop a relationship with SM than to exclude it,and not know how to appropriately screen,filter or engage in SM
SM doesn’t cause mental illness, it can if used inappropriately exacerbate conditions. But that in itself isn’t a reason not to use SM

My point is she’s a young adult,her environment and sm cannot be monitored 24-7
I do not think SM is the sole actual issue, I’d suggest
review with camhs,

medication review
Physical health check up to inc bloods

@G0taCana1 you’re right about the use of phone,it maintains contact,can encourage initiative to seek website etc
I’m sorry your son is unwell, I hope he can make a recovery. It’s hard for you all

If your dd is watching or is part of the self harm group, and/or forums for suicide that will make things much worse for her, as will the endless happy snaps on instagram and snapchat, showing her friends having a great life.

It largely depends on how she is using SM as to whether it benefits her or not, but this has to be monitored and checked daily, to see what she is watching and looking at. It could be making things worse - or it could provide a life line to her. Only you can decide and check this op.

Certainly friends of ours removed their dd's phone when this happened to her, as she was part of a group of teens that were all spiralling, it really helped - they managed to get her into a better place with lots of different interventions, stopping SM for a short period was one.

We lost a friend, a child of fifteen to suicide over the summer, it was extremely hard for everyone, and all of us questioned if we could have done more, helped more etc. So I am coming from a place where we are still recovering from the shock of this, and perhaps that is encouraging me to tell you to do whatever it takes. We all knew he was in a bad place, but it is was still the most shocking awful thing when it happens.

I wish you the very best for your dd, and really hope she gets the help she needs

Thanks all for your input. Having other stuff to do is shorthand, otherwise I'll write essays! I have had big periods off work while I invest all in trying to help her. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it leaves me mentally drained having made no difference, other than making her feel guilty as now I'm struggling to cope. Forgive my selfishness, but if I'm not looking after my own well-being, then I can't help her.
The pricing etc is helpful, I might see if I can get additional assessments done privately.
Main goal is keeping her safe while helping her see the future could be good.

It’s draining OP. I’m struggling to hold it together and my same age dc just has suicidal thoughts and depression/ anxiety.

I really understand where you’re coming from.

It is bloody awful I agree but for us there was light at the end of the tunnel and dd is doing well now at 22. In the end things turned out ok so there is hope ahead for you and your young ones. Looking back it was a long slog and I am surprised at how far down she went but eventually with love and persistence she came back up again. No family problems but because she was high functioning and well supported nothing was identified when she was younger yet looking back the signs were there. Eventually she was diagnosed with adhd/Add and some asd traits but not enough for a diagnosis. Once we made sense of it recovery began.

with love - it's a v difficult time.

Just be aware CAMHS aren’t obliged to initiate treatment recommendations from a private consultation
Getting private assessments doesn’t compel CAMHS to provide the treatment recommend
Also most nhs psychiatrists will recommend your daughter be under one psychiatrist only eg the nhs psychiatrist. You can’t have two RC at same time

I agree @sentientAndCognisant but when a psychiatrist writes a report and sends it to them in the event that a CAMHS nurse is blocking the gateway, it's jolly helpful to be able to say, consider a psychiatrist's opinion rather than a nurse's opinion. And to have a record of the correspondence.

I’m not disregarding what another psychiatrist may say, I’m simply saying it’s not necessarily going to get a specific outcome

Keeping correspondence and emails is always a good idea

Have you had her vitamin B12 checked, deficiency can really affect mental health badly, even cause the same symptoms as dementia. Even if her levels are marked ok by the doctor, she can still be deficient & not be absorbing it from her food. Start her on 5mg folic acid as a start as she needs this to absorb the B12.

I'm so sorry for you. Been in your position for 3 years - it's building up to a peak, even though we have lots of help.

Can I asked if your daughter has been prescribed Quetiapine? It seems to be a very good mood stabiliser in conjunction with an anti-depressant.

I wish I could give you the answer, it's horrendous.

We've done DBT twice - it's very good - if you're waiting to get on a course - buy the books. Marsha linehan is the guru but there are lot of practitioners who have written books.

What flowers said upthread - lovesbomb her - give her lots of attention - her her an SAD lamp - get her out for air and exercise, even just a gentle walk to the shop to buy a treat? I sleep in my dc room when they are at risk - it goes up and down. My dc has zero motivation so it is a struggle but gentle encouragement - rewards etc - come for a walk and we can get a milkshake from xyz. Come out for 10 mins and we can sit and binge watch your favourite programs, whatever she likes the most. Mine loves Coca Cola and although I hate them drinking it - it's a motivation.

The little things build and help - nothing cures but it does help.

I would keep her off school - though you need to decide if that's best but it took years of other mums with yp like ours saying 'stop worrying about school' for me to really accept it. She can go back an get an education - you just need to get her through this.

Wish you both well.

@Noregrets78

Thanks all for your input. Having other stuff to do is shorthand, otherwise I'll write essays! I have had big periods off work while I invest all in trying to help her. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it leaves me mentally drained having made no difference, other than making her feel guilty as now I'm struggling to cope. Forgive my selfishness, but if I'm not looking after my own well-being, then I can't help her. The pricing etc is helpful, I might see if I can get additional assessments done privately. Main goal is keeping her safe while helping her see the future could be good.

And yes, absolutely mentally and physically draining - you can say that and not feel guilty or selfish - you are dealing with a massive amount.

Don't forget you need your own support through this.

You aren't on your own - we're all here and I pray you get on a good DBT course where you'll meet other parents in your position - it has been a godsend for me- although all the kids are slightly different - we all understand each other.

A handhold from me. I too have a DD who has struggled with mental health issues throughout her teenage years. Self harming, considering suicide etc. I remember one night sitting on the sofa with her and I was on the brink of driving her to A & E because she was so low and nothing could bring her out of it.

Mine has anxiety too and anorexia. She was beginning her treatment at the Eating Disorders Clinic at around the same time as I was considering A & E. She didn't want to be taken there and agreed instead to give the clinic a chance, luckily.

Once treatment started we were very fortunate that she clicked very well with her therapist. She was started on fluoxetine and slowly began engaging with and even looking forward to the sessions. They became the crutch that really helped her out of the worst of it and she began eating better.

She is 18 now and has just gone to uni. She remains on her fluoxetine and is waiting for further communication from one of the student support nurses. She was sad to have to say goodbye to her therapist of the last couple of years as she said that her help had brought her back to us and had given her her life back.

I am obviously delighted with the progress she made. I am also scared again now because university is a big transition and a time of adjustment. I'm scared in case she starts to backslide and I will not be with her this time.

She's ready to move on now though, so I have to take that leap of faith too. Her university is only 20 miles from home though, so I know that if needed I could get to her fairly quickly.

It is so hard, and as a parent you feel so powerless. So, you aren't alone. I am no good at advising, but I can empathise.

How are you doing @Noregrets78 ?

Worrying a out you @Noregrets78. Hope all ok?

Sorry for the silence, thank you for thinking of me. All is ok, DD still here, things seem stable, no more attempts. I always think she's trying to lull me into a false sense of security though - only yesterday yet again a knife was missing and she'd hidden it in her room. I never know if it's for self-harm or another suicide attempt, but I'm glad I'm keeping an eye on things. I'll have a think about all the helpful suggestions, thank you.

If she is actively suicidal there is a duty to protect her. She is a child and following a crisis she would need a 136 assessment. A child can be deprived of their liberty if their life is at risk. It is not acceptable to tell you that there a real risk of death and then not intervene. I’d be seeking legal advice if I were you OP.

136 assessment? Do you mean police use section 136 warrant take individual to a place of safety for an assessment?
S136 can only be executed from a public place, eg you cannot be removed from own private home on a s136
S136 is a 24hr section to allow time to undertake a MHA.The 24 hour duration of the section 136 commences on arrival at the place of safety even if the patient is transferred subsequently to a 136 suite.
S136 is an unplanned emergency intervention. If you want a planned assessment there are other options

Deprivation of liberty?What do you mean?
I think You mean detention in hospital under MHA.?
This requires an mha assessment , and evidence of risk etc. Clinicians will consider least restrictive safe option

This doesn’t require legal advice, a solicitor cannot compel Camhs to admit to hospital, it is a clinical assessment making that amhp and psychiatrist undertake
However a solicitor can be instructed to challenge process or decision making

Typo
136 assessment? Do you mean police use section 136 , without warrant take individual to a place of safety for an assessment?

Hi op, have you found some help for your DD? Have camhs stepped up to provide support? Are school helping? I’m in a similar position and seems a very long waitlist!! Sending you wishes.

@andsoitbeginsagain You aren't on your own - we're all here and I pray you get on a good DBT course where you'll meet other parents in your position - it has been a godsend for me- although all the kids are slightly different - we all understand each other.
Does this mean you had DBT as a family? Met other parents? DD would hate that but I’d find it so useful to speak to other parents as don’t know where to turn.

@Kimlek

Hi op, have you found some help for your DD? Have camhs stepped up to provide support? Are school helping? I’m in a similar position and seems a very long waitlist!! Sending you wishes.

@andsoitbeginsagain You aren't on your own - we're all here and I pray you get on a good DBT course where you'll meet other parents in your position - it has been a godsend for me- although all the kids are slightly different - we all understand each other.
Does this mean you had DBT as a family? Met other parents? DD would hate that but I’d find it so useful to speak to other parents as don’t know where to turn.

Yes - we were lucky enough to have started the program last spring and got through most of it pre covid. 1 YP with their parent. Some had no parent with them but most did.

DBT is brilliant and helped me no end. Not sure it's helped my child - learned all the skills and tools and knows what to use, just doesn't.

I'm struggling at the moment - attempted overdose last week with a load of pills - nowhere near enough to be fatal but still very dangerous. Getting more and more experimental and risky.

Fees like a bit of rebellious streak but they are so cosseted because of safety / I think they are feeling suffocated. We've decided to stay out of school til after half term then review.

Having a med review next week and hope psych will put them on a mood stabiliser. Already on one type and have just come off anti depressants as they felt so numb on them.

Good luck to you all.

This is so so hard isn’t it?
It seems there’s a few of us going through this. My DD is going to school but I do think the workload & pressure isn’t helping. She’s attempted suicide twice in the last 3 weeks. Nothing from camhs. Found a private psych - fluoxetine, melatonin & just started methylphenidate for ADD as he thinks that could be an issue. He’s also wondering if she’s high functioning autistic. Not sure if that matters or not.

I’ve no advice @Noregrets78 as this is all incredibly new and raw. But you’re not alone. How is your DD? Are school supporting her? Camhs being more helpful?

@ComplexNeeds

This is so so hard isn’t it? It seems there’s a few of us going through this. My DD is going to school but I do think the workload & pressure isn’t helping. She’s attempted suicide twice in the last 3 weeks. Nothing from camhs. Found a private psych - fluoxetine, melatonin & just started methylphenidate for ADD as he thinks that could be an issue. He’s also wondering if she’s high functioning autistic. Not sure if that matters or not.

I’ve no advice @Noregrets78 as this is all incredibly new and raw. But you’re not alone. How is your DD? Are school supporting her? Camhs being more helpful?

Who is your community/nhs support then if no CAMHS? Did you go to hospital with the suicide attempts and do you mind me asking what method(s) your DD chose?

If hospital, how did the CCAT team leave you?

Sorry for all the questions!

We have people left, right and centre helping us though and my child is still in a mess.

I feel hopeless today. Sorry. I get like this from time to time.

It feels like such a lonely place and yet, there appears to be quite a few of us out there.