Car Seat in Minibus (Older Kid)

[BakerBop]

Looking some car seat advice please.

My daughter just turned 11yo and is small for her age. She’s moved groups for sports and dance and will be going in a minibus with other kids in the club each week. The club is great and they’ve checked her car seat fits in the minibus, know how to use it, etc. The problem is she’s begging me not to use it. She’s totally fine with it in my car, so it’s just being around other kids which is the problem because she’ll be the only kid in any sort of car seat (even including boosters). She’s nowhere near being able to be without it, so I’m just wondering what others have done or would suggest to help? Thx!

Quite. Is she allowed to cross a road yet?

Would a seatbelt adjuster be a good compromise.

Im really puzzled by this, how is she 11 and needing a car seat that needs to be tightened by an adult? Is this a harnessed seat? I'm sure there was research showing that by the time a child is >18kg that the forces on the neck in an accident in a harnessed seat was then worse than being in a seat belt

With respect, you're still trying to have your cake and eat it.

It sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that it won't stand in her way. I get that, you don't want the decisions you've made to have negative impacts for your kid. But it's not honest.

The reality is that there's a pretty good likelihood that it will stand in her way socially. That's something you need to own and acknowledge - including to her.

By trying to convey why you have decided the car seat is non-negotiable and at the same time try to convince her that it won't have negative impacts, you undermine the former message.

Correct.

A similar example - my son isn’t allowed to do online gaming. All his friends do, he wants to, but it’s a hard no from me. Of course this isolates him socially in some ways but for me it’s worth it and as his parent it’s my decision. So just own it and stand by what you’ve decided.

Thx, but seat belt adjusters (unless part of a car or a booster seat) are very dangerous.

This is social suicide. I know you think that you’re doing the right thing, but you’re not. How embarrassing for her that she’s going to have to get in the car seat and then have an adult tighten it up for her! This isn’t a dilemma and you don’t need to give her an ultimatum - just let her go without the car seat.

I think the only strategy you can give your daughter to save face with her peers, is to tell her that you’re ok with her being upfront and saying “I feel really embarrassed about having a car seat, but my Mum’s really strict about them and she’s making me use it.” The others might then sympathise with her!

But surely it’s not a harnessed seat and she’s using a seat belt with a high backed booster? And if she is and can’t stretch and tighten that herself there must be some other serious issues. If you have read anything at all about car seat safety then you’ll know forward facing in a harnessed seat is considered actually dangerous over 18kg (rear facing is fine obviously!) as the neck muscles are just not strong enough when pinned in with a harness that doesn’t move like a car seat belt. My 6yo has just moved into a forward facing high backed booster seat in the last 6 months, on a seat belt but with a seat belt guide, chest pad and pelvis strap to make sure the waist section is in the right place. And I’m an absolute stickler on car seats after reading widely and did my research.

Yes, it's a harnessed seat and by the nature of its design it has be tightened from the front hence why that's the only part she can't do herself. And just to be clear there is research which indicates what you're saying but there has never been anything definitive. The bigger and more important aspect however is that while booster seats are very safe, they have to be used properly. Not only is she unable to get a good seat belt fit with a booster, but she's not yet quite able to sit still for long enough to show she can use one safely.

I hear what you're saying, I really do, but that's not the case. I'm just trying to find an approach which reconciles those things as much as they can be. I'm fully aware it won't ever be ideal, but until she actually makes the first trip and gets some idea of the reality of it, there's a lot of managing and explaining I have to get right. Thx.

@BakerBop shes 11 and in a 5 point harnessed car seat? Are you infantilising her in other ways? Are there actually 5 point harnessed seats safe for her size?

This just gets worse! So it's not even a high back booster with the normal seatbelt, that would be bad enough but at least she could strap herself in. Are you saying your 11 year old is still in a 5 point harness car seat?!

Thx. I don't want her to be embarrassed about it (she never has been) but I know there is potential for that and I know she's worried. I don't think I'm going to lead with this idea honestly, but I also won't rule it out. If it means she can safely be in her seat and shed some of her fears and worries, I really don't care if that's what the solution ends up being! Thx for the help. :)

What seat is she in? Am assuming a specialist as manufacturers say most unsafe over 125cm.

I’ve just seen your update and I’m actually not only mortified for your daughter but so shocked that you are actually not following the research! Even 5 point harnessed car seats like the joie every stage very clearly tells you to remove the harness when the child hits the height and weight requirements. I would suggest you go away and have a proper read. Unless this is a massive drip feed and she’s not just a small 11 year old but had some medical growth issues.

Yes, I am trying to be constructive. My points are that you child is likely to break the rules of buckling up when she is mercilessly teased on the minibus. So it’s all counterproductive.

I don’t think anyone has to have a past trauma to be conscious about safety but your insistence that an 11- year old must have a car seat in a minibus (when they legally don’t need to) is very extreme so I wondered if there was a reason why you’re so anxious about kids in vehicles. And if it was something you’d like to talk about.

I also don’t think you or anyone is privileged due to the car seat they buy, I was simply pointing out that far flimsier booster seats and car seats are used all the time and children don’t get hurt. A car seat that needs an adult to buckle an 11-year old in sounds pretty heavy duty. Which makes you seem overly safety conscious. I get it. Our kids are precious. But you have to let them grow up. You DD is so excited about moving up groups but you’re holding her back. Which is really really sad. She has a great opportunity to flourish in her chosen sport, please don’t ruin it for her.

What do family and friends think about it all? Or is it not something that you can talk about in real life? I doubt your family and friends want to tell you their true thoughts as they don’t want to upset you.

This, it’s actually very dangerous parenting of op is forcing use of unsafe and inappropriate car seat

Not in a coach or mini bus, over 3s can legally travel without. This isn't about what the law requires, it's about what OP wants

(her kid, her choice, but she should own that choice, not lie to her DC that everyone else is breaking the law)

I can’t even find whatever seat this is. Is this some sort of specialised seat? Totally impossible to justify so I think the approach ‘this is horrifying but my mom says otherwise I can’t come at all’ is the only option here. She’s not exactly going to lecture them all on car seat safety (they’ll also all be as far away as they can get from this!)

Thx. To clarify, it's a harnessed seat. Not a high back booster.

And while I appreciate what you're saying, there is in fact no such evidence. I don't want to sound rude at all and I actually love the fact you've read up so much :) - but that harnessing over 18kg being dangerous is one of the misused notions in all of car seat safety.

Just so others reading this know, there was some research which indicated that might be the case. However, no other research has been done and there is no dummy in the world that can adequately measure neck loads. The reason that research is so widely cited is complex but part of it is that booster seats are very effective and have become more so with parallel improvements in rear seat safety technology. There are also political (in a good way) reasons why booster seats have been promoted so much as well as practical. What is conclusive with certainty - from all global crash research - is that boosters work when used correctly.

Send me the link otherwise I call BS.

Please see my post above about the research I'm sure you're citing. I appreciate what you're saying but that is a very widely churned, twisted, and wrought, and miscommunicated piece of information which is sadly now very pervasive. I do want to be clear for other posters however - boosters are very safe when used correctly and I encourage all parents to use boosters to their maximum safe limits.

Can you link your seat? Am invested now. I can’t find anything over 125cm

Please do link the seat, both my dc are very tall. 0n 98/97th centile for height 8 yo is 140 cm.. younger one following the curve so yes please, what do you have?