Is it reasonable to forward face at 4?

[RedCarAndBlueCar]

I have 4 year old DTs. They are just about growing out of their current isofix rear facing car seats as they're pretty average height and weight (they're about 103cm at the moment and just under 16kg).

The trouble is having two I need to buy two car seats at once. It seems that if I get two more rear facing ones, I'm looking at £1k. Whereas forward facing, even the highest rated seem to be less than £400.

Obviously you can't put a price on your child surviving a car crash etc, but it is a huge amount of money.

Is rear facing at this age really that much safer? If I do shell out for the rear facing ones will they decide they hate rear facing in a year or so?

Most things I've read seem to say rear face for as long as possible but this also seems to mostly mean until 4. Is rear facing beyond this worth it?

What have others decided to do?

Wow I'm learning loads on this thread.

Just seen a group 3 is designed for up to 36kg - my DD is 12 and still doesn't weigh that despite going over the 135cm height limit aged 9 🤣🤣

Just make sure your seat fits your car. It doesn't matter how many enhanced safety tests it's passed, unless it's able to be installed properly it is a risk to your child. The extended rear facing seats do not fit all cars, and can be tricky to fit in others- I know an accident investigator who unfortunately has seen this professionally.

If at all possible, go to a shop where you can try out the seat before you buy. The safest seat is the one that can be properly installed and your child fits into, for some this means forward facing, not everyone can afford a huge car

I suggest starting a new thread in the car seat section and/or joining the Facebook group Car Seat Advice UK to ask.
Personally I would be finding a way to keep the 7yo in a HBB and the 3yo rear-facing. You might need a different car?

No car seat fits all cars, but you can generally find an extended rear facing seat to fit any car if you really want to. The idea that there are some cars which just won't possibly fit any rear facing seat is incorrect. There are some cars where certain kinds of rear facing seats are more difficult to fit or less practical but if you want to do it you generally can.

However, I do agree that yes, incorrect installation is the one thing that makes a bigger difference than rear facing.

In general it doesn't matter the safety credentials of the seat. A basic rear facing seat is better than a top of the range forward facing, a seatbelt fitted rear facing is safer than an isofix forward facing, an older regulation rear facing seat is safer than a newer regulation forward facing. You can fit basically anything into that blank and it works because the difference between RF and FF (all else being equal) is so large.

But an incorrectly fitted rear facing seat is more risky than a correctly fitted forward facing one.

That's the one thing that will make a difference. The car seat pages poo-pooh on Which? (and ADAC) for marking down ERF seats that are considered hard to fit, but this is a genuine consideration, because if you have that fancy ERF seat and you're using it wrongly, it's no good at all. If you're the average consumer and you buy it online and have no guidance, there is a decent chace you'll fit it wrongly. That's why historically they have only been available through specialists.

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Thank you, I will try and post elsewhere. I didn't actually think it would post within a post but have never posted anything before and clearly haven't done it correctly 🙈 Another car isn't an option as there are very few car that have 3 isofix points and due to also having a 13 year old (not in a car seat), we also require the car to be a 7 seater to enable the children, my husband and I to all fit.

Switched DD to FF at 1 year old, learnt about the benefits of ERF, she's still RF aged 3.5 years, intend to keep her RF until she outgrows her current seat

OK so your children will be 13 (not in car seat), 7 (HBB), 3, 1 and newborn. You don't need 3 isofix points. It would be practical to have isofix for the HBB and the youngest two, but you could put your 3yo in a belt-fitted seat.

Thanks!

I have bought the Moves and they'll be installed next week.

Final question: safety wise, is there any difference for my 12 month old between staying in their current Cybex cloud z seat (still fits fine) or moving up now into one of the Britax Romer seats (they are spin ones they had since birth so I think dualfix?) my older two won't need now?

The baby will definitely use the Britax one at some point, but not sure whether to do it now or to wait until the Cybex is actually outgrown.

No safety difference between Cybex infant seat and Britax Dualfix unless perhaps you have the very first Dualfix with less side impact protection?

Even if you do the difference is quite marginal. They will likely be happier in the higher, more upright position in the Dualfix. OTOH it is nice not to be trapped in the car when they fall asleep - pick your preference I suppose.

https://www.johnlewis.com/silver-cross-motion-all-size-i-size-car-seat/space/p110120195

This is the one we have. It’s expensive but not £500 expensive. They can use it for as long as they need a car seat (potentially up to 12) and it works as both a rear facing car seat and forward facing.
It’s also really comfortable and easy to use.
Our eldest is nearly 4 and he’s just moved to forward facing (he’s 99th percentile for height though) and our 17 month is still rear facing. It works brilliantly for both of them.

@Monkeymonkeymoo - that doesn’t get a great safety score though. You can see it’s a 3, ‘satisfactory’ on the second picture on the John Lewis link. You could buy a much cheaper seat if you’re only wanting a satisfactory level. The lower the number the better, it’s 1-4. So ideally your want 1.5-2

Thanks! I'm not sure which Dualfix it is, it was bought in summer 2019. It doesn't have the sticky out arm like the Cybex though.

It's good that it's more a question of convenience than safety.

A lot of the Britax seats have what they call SICT inside, which means that the side impact protection consists of energy-absorbing foams and structures inside the shell. This is supposed to be better at defending from real life side impact crashes, which can occur from various different angles, whereas the sticky out things are more optimised specifically for the ADAC test. So they get great results in the test but it's not really that clear how they would work in a real life crash, it's still a useful thing to have, but a lack of them doesn't mean the seat isn't protective, if that makes sense. It depends how it's designed inside.

I think 2019 is likely to be either the Dualfix 2R or the i-size one, these came out in 2018. The original was on sale from 2013-2017 roughly, so unless you got a bargain on some old stock - I think it will have been a newer one.

Thanks, that's really helpful, and interesting about the side protection. I got them from John Lewis, not on sale, so I don't think it will be the old one.

You can sit a child FF from 18 months, legally.
Doesn't mean it's the safest thing to do though. RF is much safer.

Just in case it's useful for anyone doing a search, 18 months on, they are still very happy in their Moves, with absolutely no sign of growing out any time soon, so I reckon we'll get to 7 in them. Definitely glad I went for this option.

Thanks to everyone for the advice, particularly @BertieBotts !

@RedCarAndBlueCarthats great to hear. The Axkid are a fantastic ERF brand. @BertieBottsand other pp are very generous with their knowledge and it is always much appreciated.

Six years old now and nowhere near growing out of them yet.

In case it's useful for anyone making the same decision, they're close to seven and still very happy in the Axkids seats, so definitely feel like it was the right choice and we've got our money's worth.