Is it reasonable to forward face at 4?

[RedCarAndBlueCar]

I have 4 year old DTs. They are just about growing out of their current isofix rear facing car seats as they're pretty average height and weight (they're about 103cm at the moment and just under 16kg).

The trouble is having two I need to buy two car seats at once. It seems that if I get two more rear facing ones, I'm looking at £1k. Whereas forward facing, even the highest rated seem to be less than £400.

Obviously you can't put a price on your child surviving a car crash etc, but it is a huge amount of money.

Is rear facing at this age really that much safer? If I do shell out for the rear facing ones will they decide they hate rear facing in a year or so?

Most things I've read seem to say rear face for as long as possible but this also seems to mostly mean until 4. Is rear facing beyond this worth it?

What have others decided to do?

OP I’m in the same situation as you, daughter is 4.5, 103cm and 15kg, so about to outgrow her RF seat on height. With hindsight I wish I’d bought an extended RF seat at 18m when I bought the spinning one but I only looked at weight snd thought 18kg would take her til she was 6 or 7 - which it probably will but I didn’t account for height.

the car seat shop tried to sell me an extended RF seat for about £270ish but I would have had to buy a HBB in a couple of years anyway so I decided to just buy one now. It’s in our second rarely used car until she fully outgrows the RF one.

she is now starting to moan about ‘facing the baby way’ and I’ve probably only got a few months til there’s a full blown mutiny regarding it so another RF isn’t for me.

you’ve done well to get to 4, I know a few people who still are at 4 but most seem to change about 3/4. The longer the better but within reason is my view.

Both mine stayed in their Swedish rear facing seats until 7 or so, possibly 8, I can’t remember.

Only ever seen rear facing - beyond babyhood- on mumsnet. Literally never seen it IRL 🤷‍♀️. Not up for a debate (as know people have strong views) but I do think extended rear facing must be a rarity!

I think it must be a social group thing as almost all of my close friends/family continued to rear face til at least 3 if not 4 or later 🤷‍♀️ Yet I often see people on here where everyone they know turned the kid round at 15months.

My DS has just turned 4 and is still in his Axkid. I will keep him in it until his younger brothers need to move up to the next size seat, then will move him to a hbb. I'm hoping to get him as close to 5 as possible, I think after 4 it becomes more about their ability to sit well in a hbb vs it being considerably safer. Of course it would be safest for all of us to RF all the time, but not really practical!

I think around 4 most of their bones have developed so it's okay..., do you think they're ready for a high backed booster?

@ShineBright1209 are you aware the law intends that children should rear face to 15 months??

Really??
https://www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules

How good are they at staying sitting properly, would they stay sitting properly upright in their seat if forward facing with a seat belt?

It's a lot lot easier for them to not sit properly in a HBB with a seat belt than rear facing with a harness, and if they aren't actually sitting in a HBB correctly then it won't protect them properly. Also, do you do long journeys and do they sleep in the car still? A Minikid (which does them up to about 125 cm) is much more comfortable for them to sleep in as it gives them proper head support and also much better at stopping them flopping.

We moved the older 2 to forward facing at 4.5 by necessity for DC1 (due to the birth of DC3) and by request for DC2 for short journeys. We kept her rear facing for long journeys in the Minikid until about 6 though as it's actually much more comfortable than a HBB for them. She then had to stop using, but that was because DC3 needed it, she hadn't outgrown it. If you don't do a lot of long journeys, that won't be a consideration though!

We turned DS well before four as he escaped his seat. Drive defensively so watch what is coming up behind you and have an escape route planned e.g. can you mount the curb if the car behind doesn't stop or pull into the hard shoulders, at a round about instead of stopping can you accelerate out. We went for solid cars instead of fast toys once DS was born.

Only ever seen rear facing - beyond babyhood- on mumsnet. Literally never seen it IRL 🤷‍♀️. Not up for a debate (as know people have strong views) but I do think extended rear facing must be a rarity!
I think it depends on your friendship groups.
For most of my friendship groups most people seemed to forward face from 15-18 months and by 3 almost everyone was forward facing, except my DC.

In another one of my friendship groups everyone rear faced until at least 4, many using the plus test certified seats until older. It was normal to discuss car seat safety, share information, knowledge and recommendations.

It's a topic that I think people avoid talking about, especially because it can feel quite loaded and nobody wants to inadvertently give the impression their friends don't care about safety.

@RedCarAndBlueCar this is a decision you can only make, if you want actual facts and statistics re what's safer then yes you should definitely extended rear face to around age 6. Britax maxway are highly recommended on car seat safety uk page

We switched to forward facing at 3 as DS was complaining his legs were uncomfortable.

DD is 3 and will shortly go into a Minikid 2. She’ll not ff until she’s outgrown that, at 25KG, it should get her to around 6 years which I’m happy with. Each to their own and all that, I found an ERF FB group particularly informative when we were making the decision on the next seat to buy.

My sister switched her little boy forward facing earlier as he would throw up in the car rear facing! So it depends on individual circumstances like previous posters have said.

It’s very individual. If you did want a reasonably priced ERF seat, then the Axkid Move is good - not as fancy as the Minikid but significantly cheaper and would take you to 25kg/age 6 or so. But it’s not a bad age to move them to FF.

If you want a good HBB, we have the Britax Kidfix and it’s very easy to fit and use.

We have DC2 (age 3.5 but on the larger side) in an Axkid Move and I intend to keep him in this until I think he’ll sit properly in a HBB and/or he starts really complaining about being RF. Have been under significant family pressure not to RF him as they don’t understand why anyone would ERF a child over about 2. However, we moved DC1 to FF in a harnessed seat at 2.5 as he wouldn’t sit properly due to trying to see out of the front and the harness kept slipping. No issues at all once we switched him round.

The vertebrae in the neck fuse at about age 5, which is when it becomes safer for them to forward face. I think it should be made law to rear face until at least 5, the research for it being significantly safer is so clear. A child under 5 in an accident is 4x more likely to have a catastrophic or fatal spinal cord injury if they’re forward facing compared to a rear facing child.

OP we have a belted Axkid MiniKid 2 and it was about £350 last year. It’s definitely a whack buying two at once but they are much safer

Age is a bit irrelevant, height and weight is more important. 15 month olds vary greatly in size and weight.

@Darkmode2 but not in the development of their vertebrae, which is the primary issue with forward vs. rear facing

@Darkmode2 I think you get my point, it's too young to FF

But if posters are stating that the vertebrae doesn't fully fuse until 5 years the 15 month guide by the government is irrelevant anyway

From that link:

Height-based seats are known as ‘i-Size’ seats. They must be rear-facing until your child is over 15 months old. Your child can use a forward-facing child car seat when they’re over 15 months old.

so yes, if in an isize seat (which most sold now are), FF before a year would be illegal.

Apologies, when I said it was illegal, I thought the older style R44 seats (which allowed FF from 9kg) were no longer allowed to be sold as of this month but it turns out that’s just in the EU. A wonderful Brexit benefit for the UK there - if you particularly want to seek out a less safe seat for your child and forward face them earlier than 15 months you can for a little bit longer until UK law catches up with EU!

We did switch at age 2 several years ago, with a well fitted and padded, huge, front facing car seat. Not ideal I know, but our child projectile barfed on every single car ride longer than 15 minutes until we made that switch (it was utter misery for both our DD and us, no amount of bands, medicines, ipads or anything stopped it). Our little one is 12 months now and not a carsick baby, and we will keep him there until he is "age appropriate" and truly frustrated, though who knows how long that will be!

Depends on height, my 5 year old is really short and delicate and will be rear facing as long as possible. My nephew same age is tall and stocky and has been forward facing since 3.5 which I think was absolutely fine for him

@Darkmode2 yes indeed, our laws on this are woefully behind the science