Is it reasonable to forward face at 4?

[RedCarAndBlueCar]

I have 4 year old DTs. They are just about growing out of their current isofix rear facing car seats as they're pretty average height and weight (they're about 103cm at the moment and just under 16kg).

The trouble is having two I need to buy two car seats at once. It seems that if I get two more rear facing ones, I'm looking at £1k. Whereas forward facing, even the highest rated seem to be less than £400.

Obviously you can't put a price on your child surviving a car crash etc, but it is a huge amount of money.

Is rear facing at this age really that much safer? If I do shell out for the rear facing ones will they decide they hate rear facing in a year or so?

Most things I've read seem to say rear face for as long as possible but this also seems to mostly mean until 4. Is rear facing beyond this worth it?

What have others decided to do?

@StressedToDeathhhh again, it’s not about height or weight, it’s about the development of the vertebrae which is primarily age related

My 4 year old is still rear facing and we have an axkid mini. There is loads of room for her legs and she finds it comfy.

I read the studies which show how much safer it is so she will be rear facing until she outgrows that seat.

There is a good extended rear facing Facebook group who will give you the best seats for your budget.

What is the actual rate of catastrophic injury? Without this you can't know whether 4X more is a meaningful amount.
And it can't be for any accident, as many accidents would be unlikely to cause injury. What speed of travel are we talking? And presumably the age of the child changes the rate?
I'm interested to find out the data. So "x% of children in an accident where the is traveling at x miles an hour will have a catastrophic injury in a FF seat compared to X% that won't". If it's 20% versus 5% when travelled at 60mph that's very significant but if it's 4% versus 1% at 80mph then not so much.

I should have just looked it up rather than writing this all out, sorry!

Lots of people I know intended to RF their kids, but only 2 have actually continued beyond 3ish.
My son is 5 and is perfectly comfy in his axkid minikid. Every so often we give a lift to a friend or cousin in a high backed booster, which will trigger about 3 weeks of loud and persistent whinging.
So, in my experience, how long you've got before your kids object really depends on how long you can keep them unaware of alternatives! If they're regularly going to be in cars with other kids, prepare yourself for lots of objections!

Genuine question for those with the axkidmini, just had a look and seen that it’s seatbelted in - isn’t it proven that isofix is safer? Or is isofix only for younger children/babies? I’m just curious as to where the balance is with safety, so is it better to rear face without isofix than it is to forward face with isofix?

Good questions! We probably do long journeys about once every couple of months. I think they'd be fine sitting up properly but it's hard to tell. I actually hate them sleeping in the car now as one gets really grizzly after and it messes up their bedtime!

My two still rear face and they are 5 & 7.

Hah! Well, we never give lifts to other kids (no space) and haven't as yet had lifts anywhere so maybe we'll be fine!

Yes this is what I'm confused by.

Thanks for the Axkid move recs - that is much more reasonable. Although I guess it's still £500 more than just going straight into HBB as we would need HBB once they outgrow the Axkid I guess?

I turned my first son FF when he was 9 months old and with hindsight I can’t believe I did it. However, that was about 10 years ago and car safety for infants wasn’t quite as well known about back then.

About seven years ago, my friend lost her son in a car crash when he was almost 18 months old due to catastrophic head and neck injuries and he’d been forward facing at the time. She knew that if he’d been rear facing he’d probably still be alive. She made me promise that if I ever had more children that I would rear face them for as long as I could.

My youngest has just turned 6 years old and we have only just turned him to face forwards and I still feel quite uneasy about it to be honest 😬

My understanding is that isofix is no safer than belted. It’s just easier.
The belted extended rear facing seats are held in place with tethers which secure to the front seat. They are held solidly in place and don’t move.

They cross their legs, or put them up on the back of the seat facing them (like putting your feet up on the dashboard).

Putting their legs up on the back seat sounds extremely uncomfortable

Thanks @Turnoffthelight Ds is about to grow out of his joie Islington 360 as he’s very close to the weight limit now and I’m debating turning him back to rear facing as this thread as made me feel uneasy about him being forward facing. My only worry is we will fork out on a rear facing only seat due to his age and that being the option rather than both, and then he will refuse to get in it!

To my knowledge Isofix is only safer in that it helps minimise fitting errors, so on that respect it's safer than a seatbelt. If you know what you're doing with the latter, however then my understanding is that that's no less safe.

My kids RF til they were 6 and by that point I felt ok about them going into HBBs. There are several factors, I think - not least how much driving/what kind of driving you do.

I had my children 10 years ago when rear facing toddler car seats were only just becoming a thing - so I hardly knew any children who stayed in a rear facing seat beyond about a year and a half when they outgrew their rear facing baby seats. It’s shocking how expensive these rear seats are for older children. Most people simply can’t afford them - so it’s just another way for parents to feel guilty.

Axkid Move are definitely affordable if you want to stay rear facing. On offer until the end of September - £209, I think?

That said, forward facing is more than reasonable at 4. If you think they are mature enough, then you could go straight to HBB. Or if you think they still need a harness, Joie Bold is usually the winner if you need 18kg+. I will say, I don't think Joie Bold is that great as a HBB, so if you're happy to move to HBB when they hit their seat limits (which, honestly, could be 6+ months away) then I would just do that and skip the in between stage.

You don't need to spend £1000, either way.

It's was never a problem for my kids. You can Google photos which will show you the set-up - there's a lot more room than you think.

I really hope it’s not the same as putting your legs on the dashboard! That’s extremely dangerous in a crash!

Yeah I’d be fine with it at 4, I ERF my ds1 u too 4, DS2 until 2 as he hated it and it was much more dangerous as he used to escape the seat. It’s a sliding scale - 9 months much riskier than 18 months, 18 months much riskier than 3 etc, but around 4 it’s the same risk as it will be your whole life.

Mine both forward faced from about 15 months.

It sounds facetious but I genuinely feel like the risk of me crashing is less with them forward facing because they are so much happier that way. Far less tantrumming, crying etc and settle much better. We have decent car seats (Britax) that are about as robust as it's possible to be.

We went FF from three years old, but into a Joie Bold which has a five point harness up to 25kg.

My DC are older, I don't think rear facing seats were even an option for toddlers and older. I certainly don't know anyone who didn't use a high back booster from 3. Even now I don't know anyone with DC who use rear facing

I'm not saying I'm against it, but as a PP said it's only on here I'm away of their existence. If you can keep them rear facing without tantrum, sickness, discomfort and great expense then yes I would do.

Keep the rear facing as long as possible.

Have you considered getting a second hand rear facing seat? I wouldn't buy from a stranger but one of my girls seats came 2nd hand from someone I trusted for a fraction of what I would have paid