Daughter always put next to badly behaved boys

[Curlywurly78]

I don’t know why my 8yr old daughter is constantly placed next to badly behaved boys. She gets bullied, humiliated by them and is just told to ignore them. What message are schools giving young girls??! They are teaching our young girls that it is them that need to find ways of tolerating bad male behaviour when in fact the boy themself needs directly tackling. It’s another school year and yet again my daughter is put next to a boy that says such vile things and yet other quiet, studious kids are put into ‘good tables’ and almost seem protected against the few bad eggs in the class. If anyone is a teacher out there - why is that?? My daughter limped through to the end of term last school year with a boy that constantly would not leave her alone and now we have him again on the same table and an even worse boy sat next to her.
very upsetting and I can’t sleep tonight feeling cross about it. The new teacher is avoiding speaking to me so will have to speak to headteacher.
im so concerned at what schools are directly and indirectly teaching our young girls. We wouldn’t advise a woman in a domestic abuse situation to just tolerate it and ignore would we?! We know that won’t solve the problem and the fundamental issue is with the boy/man. Arrghhhh!!! Sorry to vent, would love to hear other thoughts on this.

I’m a teacher and we often do it to try and bring out the best in the child who isn’t behaving the best but if you told me she was being bullied I’d move her

If the teacher is ignoring you go to the head - but ensure you’ve reached out to the teacher first

Also tell your daughter she is doing the right thing by telling you and she needs to keep telling h th teacher each time

Yes my son has additional needs and can shout out/be disruptive. There are a few other boys similar. They are put next to well behaved girls.

The class layout last year was literally a row at the front with disruptive boy, quiet girl, disruptive boy, quiet girl etc in a row of four tables.
Every other child sat behind the row at a hexagon shape table in groups of six.

This year they are at tables of two and my son is sat next to a lovely little girl. His 1:1 mentioned yesterday how the girl makes sure he has the right equipment out and knows what's happening.

Great for my son, great for teaching staff, not so great for the girl who now has a extra job of supporting him.

I'd ask her to be moved and explain why. Everytime this happens . If you are ignored go above.

You need to speak to the teacher and explain the impact of sitting by this lad last year.

I moved my DD schools for this reason (amongst others). It's so disappointing that this is still happening - I remember the same when I was at school.

You're right to speak to the teacher. It's not her job to help calm down disruptive kids

Sadly the well behaved kids are always penalised in this way. It's not fair.

If it's adversely affecting her, talk to the teacher and they should move them.

I'm a teacher (albeit secondary) and I absolutely refuse to use this archaic seating method. It's a lot easier now I don't work in a school insisting on boy girl seating plans though!

To the pp who accused the op of creating harmful patriarchal ideas, the method does this- it's teaching girls that their needs are less important than the child sat next to them. They have to 'mother' that child and 'look after them'- it's my job as the teacher to meet that child's needs, not the children in the classroom!

I'm a primary school teacher and if I have disruptive children, then I do need to make sure that they are seated away from each other and next to someone more sensible.

But I don't like the naughty boy/good girl stereotype and do make sure that I don't fall into that trap. I also change children's places every term.

If a child who wants to work is sat next to someone with trickier behaviour, the aim isn't for the sensible child to be responsible for the other one (it's the teacher's responsibility to manage behaviour); it's so that the disruptive one doesn't have someone next to them who will chat, encourage cheekiness or deliberately wind them up.

Children sat next to disruptive children should not be subjected to unkind behaviour, let alone bullying and I would want to be told if this was happening.

This used to happen with my duaghter. She really wanted to sit with a friend (like I would if on a training!) and always got out with the "naught boy". It's so disruptive and didn't make her learning environment great.

She's at a girls grammar now and the difference is light and day (not that I love the grammar system but as we live in one I thank my lucky stars weekly she's lucky enough to have this environment).

If the teacher put all of the children who have a tendency to be disruptive together, they would team up and become more disruptive. The learning of the entire class would be impacted by the teacher needing to give attention to that group of children and parents would complain that their “good girls” are being left behind. You can’t win.

If your daughter has been bullied by this boy, talk to the teacher about moving her. It’s a problem that can be easily solved.

Boys are not the only ones who can be badly behaved, girls can be too.

My son was seated next to a badly behaved girl, constantly sniping at him and kicking him under the table, just generally being mean. He was coming home distressed and not wanting to go to school.

I spoke to the teacher about it and she said her reasoning was she was hoping by seating a well behaved child next to a disriptuvs child, that it would lead by example, but didn't work out this way. My son had previously been sat next to the more disruptive ones, boys and girls 🤷‍♀️ this time, it was too much for him.

The teacher understood and was more than understanding and did move him seats to someone more on his level for sometime.

You just need to approach the teacher, tell them your concerns for your daughter and I am sure they will be more than understanding and hopefully resolve the situation for your daughter.

Every time it happens write in and kick up a fuss. Tell them what you’ve said here. Don’t accept it.

I once got wind of the fact that a parent of a very badly behaved DC had gone into school and threw her weight around and the head had agreed to put him in a class with 5 DC including mine, to support him. He was a horrible bully.

I went straight to the school and told them there was no way my DC was being thrown under a bus for him. The next year the other 4 DC had a nightmare with him.

You have to a watch and listen closely to what goes on in schools with your DC. It’s not the job of your DC to be a pacifier for another child.

The school is creating and encouraging these issues. The OP is just observing on it.

There's a reason why girls are being overwhelmingly used to "behaviour manage".

Don't be ridiculous. The school is reinforcing the patriarchy by telling the well-behaved girl to ignore him ("Know Your Place, Women") and allowing his bullying behaviour to continue, unchecked ("Boys will be Boys, eh?!").

Keep challenging it OP, your daughter deserves better.

I'd like to know what parents think teachers should do with the children who constantly fidget, shout out, talk to the person next to them, annoy other children, mess about, don't listen to the lesson etc.

Primary schools are faced with increasing numbers of children with ADHD, Autism, social behaviour problems and other disorders. Schools have to be seen to be inclusive, teachers are limited in what discipline strategies they can use, some parents are less than supportive of the school these days, support staff numbers and the budget for SEN is so low that many children are without the support they need so can't be taken out of lessons to meet their needs.

Some classes in my school (which is a leafy lane high performing school) have a whole group of children with EHCPs. They have to be seated next to somebody and preferably not each other because otherwise chaos erupts!

I would be complaining very loudly about this. My daughter isn’t a support human. If they are just sitting there then no problem, if my DD is expected to do anything about the fact that they are sitting there then theres a problem. If it becomes unpleasant for her then I would be insisting she’s moved.

Sent mine to a girls secondary to avoid this nonsense.

Dds maths teacher recently said she moved from a mixed private to girls state as at the mixed school the girls were so cowed and silent in her lessons and it’s a different world at the girls school. Both mine have thrived in an all girl teaching environment.

This has happened to my DDs. It got to the point where my youngest started refusing to go to school. Fortunately her teacher picked up on what was happening and moved her. I get that this approach is beneficial for the boys in question but can’t really see how it helps the girls.

Disagree with this. Compliant, people pleasing girls are expected to passively absorb the boisterous, disruptive behaviour in class (generally, overwhelmingly boys) to the detriment of their own learning. It’s always been this way. The patriarchal ideas are already at play in this situation, OP hasn’t imposed them.

Mine are adults now but as a parent to three well behaved good kids (both sexes) I remember the frustration of this.
I never did anything about it as I would do the same as a teacher with 30 to manage. Except once when the child was too much of an aggressive little tyrant to my son. The teacher did move my son.
It’s the price of not being able to afford smaller classes or single sex schools I guess.
I do think sitting still in a classroom is more difficult for a lot of boys and have some agreement that modern education methods don’t work well for high energy young people who are just not suited to sitting at a desk for hours. I just got lucky with my three quiet nerds.

Have them sit on their own if they are disrupting the leaning of the child they’re sitting next to?

Absolutely this!
When you speak to the head, keep emotions out of it, be extremely professional and have your facts straight. Don't go in on one angle, they'll quash it, go in on multiple angles including your safeguarding concerns because of the persistent bullying. Also I'd go in with solutions, what you feel should happen and a clear reasoning behind it
Good luck

It is not the responsibility of my lovely, placid DD8 to sort this out though.

I totally get the OP's frustration because it happened to my DD last year.

And guess what. The children with "needs" still have those needs. Her sitting next to them hasn't made them miraculously better.

But it has put her off school to the point where she was crying every morning about going in. It has made her think she has to shoulder the responsibility of other people's naughtiness. It has absolutely taught her that women have to put up with all kinds of shit from men.

It might be easier for you as a teacher. But I have to ask why it's ok to have such an awful impact on a little girl to make your life easier. This sort of thinking should be absolutely shameful.

This used to happen with my dd and I basically complained to the school and it was sorted
It bothered her a lot more than she told me

I absolutely agree with this. Well said.