Daughter always put next to badly behaved boys

[Curlywurly78]

I don’t know why my 8yr old daughter is constantly placed next to badly behaved boys. She gets bullied, humiliated by them and is just told to ignore them. What message are schools giving young girls??! They are teaching our young girls that it is them that need to find ways of tolerating bad male behaviour when in fact the boy themself needs directly tackling. It’s another school year and yet again my daughter is put next to a boy that says such vile things and yet other quiet, studious kids are put into ‘good tables’ and almost seem protected against the few bad eggs in the class. If anyone is a teacher out there - why is that?? My daughter limped through to the end of term last school year with a boy that constantly would not leave her alone and now we have him again on the same table and an even worse boy sat next to her.
very upsetting and I can’t sleep tonight feeling cross about it. The new teacher is avoiding speaking to me so will have to speak to headteacher.
im so concerned at what schools are directly and indirectly teaching our young girls. We wouldn’t advise a woman in a domestic abuse situation to just tolerate it and ignore would we?! We know that won’t solve the problem and the fundamental issue is with the boy/man. Arrghhhh!!! Sorry to vent, would love to hear other thoughts on this.

But I'm afraid IME that it IS often naughty, disruptive boys and quiet, calm, well-behaved girls put next to them to set a good example. 🤷🏼‍♀️ My dd had the same.

Yes, this was one of the biggest differences my dd found at grammar too.

Just keep complaining until the teacher moves her or him.
It's a tactic often used for all the reasons people have already said. Your only concern is your DD
Used to happen to my DD too.

It is a Boy harrasing girl. They are 8yrs old... which means they know it is Bullying.
It may be sexual harrsement, or at least lead it him thinking He can get away with it., does this not matter it's a boy.
It is not ok

Op...Get the bloody teacher to do a proper job no one needs tormented.
Are UK schools into not functioning or a intolerance to this sort of b.s. in class.
Our school emails and inform us and follow through.
Unbelievable.

Absolutely talk to the teacher and demand her to move.

We had a similar issue with my dd last year, the boy she was sat next to was absolutely horrible to her, calling her names, telling her she was stupid etc, she came home with tears and told me she told the teacher, but nothing happened.

I kicked the fuss and they were separated- absolutely would I not tolerate this- if the teacher wouldn't do nothing even after me texting her, I would go further till the whole situation would be resolved.

This always used to happen to my daughter too. She's not especially bright but she is quiet and well behaved. I spoke to the teacher and they stopped doing it.

I should add that my daughter is now at an all
girls school and does not miss the "naughty boys" at all. I am not down on boys, I also have a son, but it has made her learning less disrupted.

@Curlywurly78 i could have written this post myself! We are only 5 days into the new year and we’ve already had to contact the teacher to ask for an intervention. DD was crying at 10.30 last night because she ‘just wants to be left alone to get on with her work’ and was begging us to find somewhere ‘quieter’ for her to go to school 😢

I agree and have seen this with my own daughter. Although, last year it was a naughty girl she was sat beside to 'be a good influence' - having to put up with it is not a thing a 4/5 year old should have to do.

Same thing happened to me at school and it seems like 30 years later it is still happening.

Not sure what the answer is but I have learned you have to advocate for you kid. The other kid and their need for good influence, good role model or whatever the reasoning is quite frankly not you or your daughters problem. I really feel for teachers having to deal with this.

It’s so heartbreaking isn’t it to see them upset. Sadly the problem will be in other schools too. I have faith the teachers will deal with it, I do hope you have some immediate action. I had a talk with two teachers this morning at drop off and hopefully will get sorted. Raising the safeguarding concerns seems important and to be honest that’s the worst bit about it. But also it highlights things like how these good students who get on with their work are being used in class and it’s not fair- it will disrupt their self esteem and affect their ability to thrive. Also I do worry even more so about the message girls are getting in schools. It’s the girls behaviour that needs to change - i.e. they need to be better at ignoring or regard the behaviour as silly or basically change the way they appraise these behaviours. It won’t be long till these young girls are teenagers and adults when actually calling out bad behaviour or bad treatment is vital for their own wellbeing and in some cases survival. A woman being constantly ill treated and feeling unable to leave a relationship - would it be right to say to them ‘be better at ignoring it’ or ‘ they’re not being aggressive they are just being silly’. These are the messages our young girls are getting and it horrifies me, I try my best to make sure they have the right view of themselves and others but school life and teachers can be very influential over them. When will society realise it’s the perpetrators of this abuse that needs tackling and it really does start from a young age.

Do let me know how you get on- sending you positive vibes and empowerment. Your child will totally thank you in their hearts for championing them whatever the outcome xx

I had this at school ... I was effectively 1:1 for a child with behavioural issues, I realise now he had SEN but in those days he was just considered "naughty".

No good for me OR for the boy who probably needed an adult 1:1 or specialist setting.

Yes, I then moved to an academically selective girls' school for secondary.

Wonder if this is secretly behind the anti grammar, anti private school stuff ... much cheaper not to have to provide proper support if you "use" an army of compliant, capable girls as de facto learning support.

This happened to me, I hated it. I was sat next to a boy who kicked me subtly under the table and drew on my work. I cried before school each day with dread. It’s not fair. I’d insist she be moved.

Thankyou to everyone for your posts ( the one unhelpful poster got reported!!)
I have gathered so much strength from all of your posts, thankyou for taking the time to read and message I appreciate every single one.
Us mothers of young girls have a duty to empower them, for them to know they don’t have to put up with the bad behaviour of others. I feel it’s vital for them to know this going forward into the future - being assured that when they call out bad behaviour they will be listened to, believed and rescued. I want my girls to know that as teenage girls and as adult women.
Of course I would want boys to have this ability too but I think it’s particularly important for girls. The gender difference is a thing, it does exist and will always exist. There are great things about being a girl or a boy and the differences should be celebrated. But one shouldn’t be able to overpower and hinder the other and equally others shouldn’t reinforce this with their action or inaction.
sorry - venting again!
have a good day all

It’s definitely an interesting point and I hadn’t realised that perhaps this was a thing that was happening. I feel a lot more mindful of this now and will be watching! 🥸

…and this sort of thing is why we’ll be sending DD to a girls’ school for secondary.

Sorry to hear about your daughter OP; as a former primary teacher I can echo what others have said about this being common practice (I was very aware of it happening in schools I taught in, although I always refused to do it myself). It’s now starting to happen to my own DD, who is 7 - last year her class had ‘maths buddies’, which basically consisted of higher attaining or particularly sensible girls being paired with disruptive boys in an effort to improve their maths skills. I’m a governor at the school and have to say that I went in all guns blazing on that one!

Can I just say thank you (genuinely) for recognising the situation is good for your son, which obviously you are grateful for, but recognising it might be difficult for the girl.

I'm torn on the situation because all through primary (overseas, 2 years / 1 teacher & assistant per classroom), my daughter was that girl. She was always put next to the disruptive or SEN boys. Some were truly horrid to her, stealing her stuff, knocking her or just saying nasty things. She never complained because she understood why she was the one that was placed there as they were even worse with others but she suffered as she couldn't concentrate properly and it sometimes wore her down very badly.

However, over the years, she was routinely placed, on rotation, between two children. One had severe SEN due to a birth trauma. He was a lovely, gentle boy, but still couldn't barely read by year 6, he should have been in a special school, but there just weren't any. My daughter would help him with everything but make him do things she knew he was able to so he had a sense of achievement.

The other boy came from the most awful family situation you can imagine and he simply acted out against it. He hit other children in the face, broke things, threw equipment and for all intents and purposes seemed an absolute horror. He wasn't, he was just a very damaged little boy. When he was fighting in the playground, the teachers would call for my daughter as she would go and intervene and calm him down. She also helped him in his lessons when she could as he also had some learning difficulties. I think she was the only child he didn't deliberately hit. He once smacked her in the face, but that was by accident during one of her interventions. When she left, at the end of year 6, he wrote in her leaving card, "Thank you for being my friend, I will miss you". I still well up when I think of it and what it must have taken for him to write that. She honestly didn't see how much she had helped him, she was just doing what she does!

Ive had exactly the same thing happening with my dcs in primary/secondary and they are two boys. But they were quiet/behaved/higher set so they were used by the teacher to help manage to more disruptive children.

That child will need to be sat next to someone. So one child will suffer as a result iyswim.
The teacher is also likely to say that it’s good fir the better behave child because they’ll learn to explain things/support so it will be a positive experience for them (not my experience btw).

Unless clear bullying, id wait a bit and then tell the teacher it’s not working. Your dd had a go, tried to make it work but is finding too hard/struggles to concentrate /doesn’t want to go to school anymore /whatever applies.

And yes it tends to be girls that are ‘used’ in that way because they are often the quieter ones. But I don’t think it’s ‘just’ because they are girls iyswim

@MyDaughterToo what you’ve described with your dd is the sort of things teachers will mention to say how good it is for the well behaved child. That they’ll learn so much from it etc…

And yes I’m sure they do (and your dd is an amazing human being! Both on how compassionate she has been and in how much effort she has put to support those children).
But I also think sometimes, the nuisances/disruptions are just so much more than what they’get from it’. Wo talking about the fact it’s not their role and we would not expect any adult to take into that sort of role. Imagine if you were expected to be constantly on the lookout for your colleague who has regular meltdown/aggressive behaviour/can’t do things whilst still doing your normal job like normal.

Not sure if already been said but I'm having a similar problem except my dd is in secondary school. She is very well behaved and in all her classes has been put by kids who are not. And who last year would upset her or copy all her work . She asked to be moved and was told yesterday that the other kids work better when sat next to her.
It's really is just for the teachers to separate the kids who misbehave. And make those children who are good suffer

If a child who wants to work is sat next to someone with trickier behaviour, the aim isn't for the sensible child to be responsible for the other one (it's the teacher's responsibility to manage behaviour); it's so that the disruptive one doesn't have someone next to them who will chat, encourage cheekiness or deliberately wind them up.

I was used as a support human too but luckily 2 years in realised that this is the teacher’s motivation and, if I want to get out of this role, I need to remove the incentive. So instead of trying to calm the boy down I encouraged and misbehaved myself, always pointing at him for where I learned the behaviour. It’s important though to immediately turn your own bad behaviour off as soon as the situation is resolved and never let your grades slip.

You need to teach your daughter that it’s completely okay to say “no”, even to a teacher, if she feels that something is not right. She can be polite but firm. Her needs are not worth any less than another’s and she should never take other people’s judgment of her at face value, in case the teacher tries to bully her into submission by calling her unkind when she refuses to sit at the naughty boy table.

Removing the incentive is also how my daughter’s school deals with uncooperative parents. If the child is consistently disruptive then parents need to sit with them, come pick them up early, go to loads of meetings etc. so it becomes really inconvenient to use school as childcare. Although, we are not in the UK right now so maybe there’s a difference of what’s legally allowed

@MyDaughterToo

Your post has made me cry. What a lovely daughter you have she shouldn't have had to but just think about what her kindness will have done for him.

More needs to be done to support Sen and vulnerable children. They shouldn't be expected to get on with it at the expense of other children's Education and welfare.

It's not the childrens fault, it's not always the parents fault or the teachers. It comes down to lack of funding in education, Sen and children in need.

I had to lose my shit at the school to stop my straight-a-student daughter being used as a de facto teaching assistant. She found is highly distressing and it disrupted her studies. Yet the school kept stating "school policy" until I threatened further action.

Protect your daughter and her education. The school can go whistle.

I couldn't agree with you more! My daughter is one of life's genuine angels. She has the kindest heart and most selfless soul. She takes after her dad who is the same. Me, I can't take any credit! 😁I'm so proud of her I could burst!

Which is why I'm on the fence. She did feel a sense of accomplishment when she had guided the boys and they were successful, she felt very proud of them. However, her own work did sometimes suffer. Especially so when she was stuck with the disruptive boys who were nasty to her. I could see her crumbling under it and I did have to speak up for her when I realised as she wouldn't do it herself as she then felt sorry for the next poor soul who had to put with them...

@Curlywurly78 thank you, that’s so kind. Waiting to hear back from her teacher but I made DD promise that she’d be honest if her teacher asked her about what’s been happening and not worry that she’s ‘making a fuss’.
I completely agree with your viewpoint that girls being used in this way is completely inappropriate and teaching them the wrong thing, I do however have sympathy for teachers who have no help and 27 (the smallest class in her year!) children of differing needs and abilities to teach.
The advocacy for single sex education on this thread has been eye opening, I’m definitely going to look to see if we have any options!

I know this is annoying and the bullying is NOT acceptable. But an anecdote that might put another spin on it. My youngest DS is one of these boys that was always put at the front in prinary school with some 'good girls'. Him and another boy with the girls between them. This happened a lot from about year 4. No bullying though, i stress, he's just a loudmouth extrovert and would disrupt the class with constant talking and mucking about with mates if left at back or with all boys. Anyway, the girls occasionally conplained about him knocking their pencil cases off the table (by mistake), him asking them for help with work etc. Im sure the parents complained about him distracting them.

Anyway, they are now young teens, girls at 2 different secondaries, the 2 boys at a different school and they have a really great friendship that came out of it. They often hang around together outside of school and in the school holidays. My ds helps them with their maths homework, they help him with his English. They confide in each other about boyfriend/girlfriend dramas etc. It's a really sweet friendship and the boys are really protective of the girls when they are out and about.

Bullying is different of course and that was never the case here (from the boys anyway, the girls were quite mean about them at times when they were younger), but it can be a lesson in getting along with the opposite sex I think. Because whether we like it or not (i don't) they are different, from a young age, particularly in the classroom.

The teacher should be managing it better though. If the girls are having their work and learning genuinely impacted then its not fair (the 2 girls I'm talking about got into a grammar and a scholarship place at a private school so I dont think they did). One girl has turned out to struggle at maths though and my DS is good at it so I often find him on a call helping her now. She gives him tips on how to talk to girls he likes.