DH has told me to stop BF 2yo; am very upset and don't know what to do

[weasle]

this is about my 2.6yo ds2 who i bf to sleep.

he's never been a good sleeper, but usually goes to sleep in about 10-20 minutes whilst i bf him. he then sleeps though the night unless ill etc.

occasionally when i am not in the house he has gone to sleep with dh. when dh tries and i am in the house it takes about 2 hours or more for him to go to sleep being cuddled. i bf him in the day very rarely, and never in front of anyone else.

my dh has never really been supportive of bf, but i thought he accepted it as a good thing. i have found bf very difficult as my son bf hourly for about 4 months and mothering him has been a very challenging experience.

tonight dh has told me he wants me to stop. the reasons given vary but include abnormal, weird, embarassing, risking our marriage and the rest of the family's happiness, that it prevents us ever going out to dinner (ridiculous as can go out after he is asleep at 7 and also small matter of 6 week old ds3!)

i am so gutted and upset about his attitide too 'knock it on the head' or 'bin it' and also puzzled as why he is against something that actually makes his life easier. and also given my history of PND and AND why he wants to upset me so much!

I don't know what i can do to get over this and help him understand why taking comfort away from ds2 would not be good especially now. he thinks it is time for me to compromise, and i have bf for long enough.

sorry for long post but i am so upset and don't have anyone in rl who is supportive or understanding (or knows i am still bf him)

Lol at 3 hourly feeds. I think Ds was a year old before that happened.

Actually, making sure all those other parts of the bedtime routine are in place was very helpful for us.
Definitely get DH to the rest of the bedtime routine imo.

It was a whimsical suggestion, my last two babies had reflux and so never happened for me either!! But you get the idea?

It's like I've told me DH when to expect sex again, around the time hell freezes over or the last child leaves home....

"a man who has only complained once every 6 months for 2.6 years about his wife still bf his child is actually remarkably tolerant and enlightened on the subject. " I don't think a woman should be grateful she has such a prize of a man who 'only' complains every six months about breastfeeding. What is the problem of those men mentioned with breastfeeding? They are not shelling out the money for formula, their babies, yes their babies, are being fed the perfect, nutritionally balanced food for them to grow and thrive, and the men don't have to faff around with bottles twice or more every night to do their fair share of feeding. What is so bloody horrible about breastfeeding, or so stupidly immature about these men that they don't see the benefits both for them and for the babies? What is their big problem?

Regarding sleep problems -- my exMIL never experienced one single disturbed night with all seven of her children. She put them down to sleep and ignored their cries at night, from the day she came home from the hospital with them (back then it would have been two weeks after delivery) until they gave up crying, as far as she knew. She was of the opinion that babies needed to be treated strictly and taught to fit in with the family, not the other way around. I believe she got her ideas from John B. Watson, mentioned above. Most people are not nazis to that extent though. But exMIL definitely solved the 'sleep problem'.

However, there are lingering ideas yes, the Hollywood image that continue to be peddled by 'experts' whose philosophy is based on going against the flow in the infant and toddler years, that perfection is possible where sleep is concerned. I can see the attraction to sleep deprived parents, who are possibly desperate, and feeling inadequate when affairs in their home don't match the 'ideal', and hoping to 'fix' the problem (something a lot of men like to do). It's well-meaning, even if not entirely altruistically motivated (because who doesn't really want a good night's sleep and an end to the 24/7 feeling of having your life dominated by babies and children) -- but again, this is the 'going against the flow' mindset.

I agree with Lenin's suggestion of the Dr Sears approach for your DH to read, and then roll up his sleeves and stop giving you grief, and putting you under pressure. This is the number one aspect of the problem that he and he alone can solve -- he must not add stress to your life at this point, with so many demands already in place due to the baby and other children. You can't magic away the children's needs overnight. This is frustration speaking on his part, understandable, yes, but leading to completely unreasonable suggestions, pressures, threats (the reference to marriage) and unfair pressure. The kind of tension he has caused will actually retard the improvement of the sleep situation, because children tend to be hyper aware of conflict between parents like this, and respond by becoming more clingy.

Excellent post Mathanxiety.

Yep mathanxiety has it nailed.

I honestly think that 2 1/2 years is enough breastfeeding.
It may take a week or so for your little one to settle without it, but he'll be fine and i the long run you and your husband will be fine as well.
I hope it all goes okay x

mathanxiety - I think the point I was trying to make was that everyone can get frustrated about things at times, even when they know it is the right thing and the best thing - and of course not costing them any money, which is a big reason why my DH is supportive of bf

If someone is only perhaps having this sort of conversation with his wife say every 6 months (and even she says it is only this time that it has seemed particularly horrid - and I certainly don't condone him for saying it is weird) then that to me sounds more like someone who is a bit fed up at that point in time with the general situation or just wants to have a discussion with his wife to understand reasons why she may be continuing with bf as he knows nobody who has done it for longer than a few months before. By my calculation, it is only 5 times in his son's life that he has even had a conversation about bf, and then has let her carry on without moaning about it again. If he really loathed bf that much, he would be sniping all the time and undermining her all the time - and she hasn't said he has done that at all. Everyone is allowed to get annoyed or question what their partner is doing occasionally - it is unfortunate that this seems to have been directed at bf, but he may well not have meant it as an attack on bf so much as trying to understand - but that doesn't mean they really mean what they are saying. Yet the attitude on here seems to be that a man is not allowed to even once say a single thing against bf, even in the heat of the moment, and if he does then his view on how to raise his child need never be considered again. And that to me is harsh, when it seems clear from what the OP says that this is not constant sniping, harassing, threatening to leave her, feeding the baby formula behind her back etc. but just an occasional bit of frustration or something - which could just as easily be cause by the sleep issues as by the bf.

My DH asked me when DS was around 6 months if I was planning to give up breastfeeding DS after weaning as most of his friends' children weren't breastfed beyond 6 months and were all doing fine. I said no as I wanted to carry on for longer, he looked a bit confused and TBH a bit , and then didn't mention it again until I started talking about wanting to stop. Instead he supported me during tough night feeds and then helped me enormously with weaning DS off bf. So we had a conversation every 6 months like OP and her DH. Because we had that conversation where he said he didn't see why I was continuing bf, should I never ever let him have a say in how we raise our child again, despite the fact that he then supported me in continuing bf? Of course not!

Otherwise, I agree with the rest of your post.

Has anyone really said that "a man is not allowed to even once say a single thing against bf" though? I think people feel that a man doesn't have the right to dictate what his wife does with her body. Imagine if it was the other way around, and a husband was trying to pressure his wife into breastfeeding when she didn't want to.

Comments like:
"personally i would tell him to grow up and shut up"
"it is no way up to him"
"no one has the right to tell her to do any different"

All these comments are because the father has expressed a different opinion to the mother. So because he doesn't back her 100% (be it at a particular point in time or in general) then he has to just grow up and shut up and basically never has any say in how his child is fed or comforted or put to bed?

A DH would have every right to ask his wife to consider bf, quite vociferously if he felt strongly about it and be listened to while he explained his reasoning. If she then chooses to ff, does that mean he has to shut up, or have no right to tell her different, or to be a bit upset about her not bf? Her body yes, her decision is final, yes. But she can't just ignore her DH and tell him to shove off just because he disagrees - she should at least listen and be open to what he is saying, and have the good grace to give him reasons rather than just telling him to shove off because his view doesn't count.

Comments like those I've picked out anove do nothing to help this couple work through the issues (and I'm sure it's more than just bf), and do everything to undermine the poor man's ability to have some say in how his children are raised. He might be being a bit of a twat talking about it threatening their marriage etc, but that doesn't mean there isn't something worth listening to in what he is saying, especially as he appears to have been largely supportive of her bf for so long.

I agree they're not especially helpful to the OP, since they don't give any suggestions for dealing with the situation. And neither do these posts of mine - sorry OP. However it isn't up to any man what his partner does with her body, and I don't think there's a problem with pointing that out, though I suppose one could do it more moderately.

OP, sorry you've been attacked on this thread. Have you got some RL support? Is there an LLL group near you or something similar?

Would it help if you could normalise b/feeding for him, it is normal, he needs to understand that. Either invite lots of us round or maybe show him the pics on facebook?

good luck weasle, I have had to deal with this question from my dp, my reply was " I'll stop when he's ready, anything else would be cruel because he wouldn't understand" but I suspect that the comments will begin again soon ride it out you'll be ok........

thanks so much for the support lovely mumsnetters.

i have looked into the nearest LLL branch itneverrains - i have no RL support, no-one knows i am 'still' bf ds2 and certainly i don't think anyone would approve! LLL is quite far away but i might try and make it next month.

i will try to talk to dh again soon and make a plan. ds1 has been difficult to get to sleep this week, and that is nothing to do with bf!

Weasle, have a look at these pics might cheer you up!

here

You are not alone you know! A friend of mine once told me that when she was night feeding her baby she felt terribly alone and hated the whole night feeding scenario, I pointed out to her that actually while she was feeding her baby, I was feeding mine and that there were literally hundreds of other mother feeding their babies in the twilght. She wasn't alone at all we were all there with her. She liked the idea and stopped stressing about the night feeds, she said she could imagine us all silently feeding in the half light.

Its the same for you with your 2 year old, I fed my ds (2.5) to sleep tonight and put him to bed, you are not alone

Have a look at the pics, might they help normalise this for your dp?

Weasle.
I have read through the whole thread and I would like to say bloody well done for still BF at all.
Three children are a trial, especially as your youngest is still a new born.
I think that you need to separate bf from sleep with ds2. Once you have changed the association then he will settle without the feed.
With DS3 perhaps not feeding to sleep in the first place would be easier. It is possible to do in a non traumatic way. Make sure that when ds has finished feeding he is still awake. Put him down while still awake and stay with him until he is asleep. A hand gently on his tummy while stroking his face normally does the trick.
It has worked for all three of mine. All bf but I was going back to work with the first two and couldnt risk the whole feed to sleep trauma happening.
When ds was born my DH was pretty crap. He always felt left out and yes I told him to get over himself. However as time went on and ds didnt sleep and I was feeding all the time it was the dd's who complained the most. They also felt left out as I was "always busy with ds".
I fed until 14 months but stopped because I wanted too. Ds would almost certainly still be feeding now if left up to him.

I hope you talk some more with your DH. He doesnt sound horrible to me by the way. Just a human being with feelings. He is the man you fell in love with and had children with (3) He deserves some love and attention, as do you, from him.

Megonthemoon, yes I agree some of it is the frustration talking, but Weasle's DH has already had her go through one failed attempt, for a week, of controlled crying, so there has clearly been more than just a bit of grumbling every six months (hence my surmising about the two of them having different philosophies about appropriate treatment of babies and toddlers).

I am getting a bit confused, you say your DS2 is a bad sleeper and clarify this by saying he "usually goes to sleep in about 10-20 minutes whilst i bf him. he then sleeps though the night unless ill etc"

Which I would class as an flipping excellent sleeper

Are the 'bad sleeps' only seen on non breastfed nights ?

Your husband sounds very worried and concerned but I am unsure over what. You can put DS2 to sleep by breastfeeding for 10 minutes on your own when you are home on your own, great.

You also say DH can put him to bed on his own when you are out, great again.

DH only struggles when he is doing bedtimes and naturally knowing mummy is home DS2 shows that he would prefer his mummy to nurse him before bed what is wrong with that ?

One thing we changed when our second child arrived was I started to nurse our toddler downstairs, before daddy took over the bath, book, bed bit and that worked very well for us. Maybe worth a try if your DH wants to do bedtime on his own. Milk with you downstairs and then DH takes over might result in more peaceful nights.

I really don't think breastfeeding is the problem here, it is only when trying to remove/reduce the nursing sessions which results in DS2 being upset. Doesn't that tell your DH something ? i.e. DS2 is not ready to be completely weaned yet.

I would go for a 10 minute nurse followed by a proper night sleep any time and I wouldn't sit in DS2 room for hours instead of nursing, that is just insane, especially as you are still happy to provide the solution why make things harder for yourself.

Of course if your DH wants to spend hours putting DS2 to sleep the hard way (assuming DS2 isn't upset) I would be tempted to let him do what he wants the couple of nights he can do the bedtime and stick to the easy breastfed bedtimes when you are doing it.

The voice of sanity there; well said Babieseverywhere.

sorry babies, i understand that it sounds strange! but ds2 doesn't always settle with a bf at bedtime, and then it's 10pm before he goes to sleep. it always happens the night i want to do something!
last night he woke at 4am and didn't settle until 6, when ds1 woke up. unusual these days for this to happen, but it occasionally does.

he has been asking for mummy milk a bit recently in the day but can usually be distracted if i don't want to feed.

i didn't feed him at 4am despite repeated requests, as i thought dh would be cross, will discuss this later with him; it is obvious that ds2 likes it, and he might have settled quicker with a feed...

Weasle, it sounds like you are doing a great job! I'm completely in awe that you are managing to tandem feed.

Babieseverywhere said it all really. If your DH has such an issue with bfing to sleep, let him take over bedtime whenever he is at home. See how long he lasts before he asks you to take over!